Mass antlerless tag day is here!

[sbandit]

I'd love to grab a surplus dag for zone 10 but is there anywhere to hunt along route 9? I thought most 0laces have been banned or overpopulated with houses. I could actually hit it after work if I could find a spot.

 

[whacko]

Got one for Zone 8. Deer are not that plentiful around here. Wont be shooting one, would rather grow the herd than use the tag. Plus im sure some local loser around here will put in for a zone 9-12 permit
then use it to shoot a doe in zone 5 or 8. Happens alot around here unfortunately.

I will say i have access to land in S CT, or northern state land. If i want to shoot a doe i would do it with the bow down there. I generally dont hunt that much for deer anymore though, would rather chase birds with the dog.

So why would you apply for a doe tag if you don't plan to use it? You personally want to "grow the herd" lol. You sound like some kind of "bucket biologist". Do you have some sort of scientific data system that the f and g doesn't have access to and are calling the shots now?

As far as the local loser using a tag out of zone.......you think applying for and not using a zone 8 permit is going to change things? Am I missing something?

 

[Mark from MA]

All I have is 30+ years of actual hunting experience, of which I've found that when lots of antlerless tags were given in the western to central zones, the deer population was decimated in the 80's and 90's. The Fish and Game ignores coyote predation and bad winters in giving tags out as well.

The eastern zones have grown population but that's got more to do with lack of hunting land availability than anything else. Deer will grow well on small properties. I hunt them in Southern CT and there are a ton of deer down there, that is where I harvest does if I need to. Not in places I rarely see a deer.

My non use of a hunting permit does very little, I understand that, but there are guys at my work that do the same thing, because they are sick of seeing no deer and want to try and help the situation. Guys at my club are starting to do the same thing as well, because most of them are seasoned hunters who have seen the population fall over the years.

I'm not knocking people who use a permit....but come out here and hunt for a week and if you see a deer you'll be luckyThen want to kill the only deer I see??? When I was a kid maybe, but I've moved beyond that. Then I listen to the local idiots who do deer drives and shoot anything in sight take a 50# doe on a zone 13 permit in my zone complain there are no deer around.

Again..if your from the Eastern zones wail away....you probably won't do enough damage because there arent enough hunters around, land is unavailable to hunt, and deer have places to hide and regenerate in sanctuary. There are pockets in Central and western MA that does happen, but it's very spotty and limited.

Add to the fact, that the Fish and Game has deer per square mile goals that are very low...because they pander to the car insurance lobby. But that's a whole other story. Go to most other states in the eastern half of the country with the exception of Maine and NH, maybe VT. Their Deer per Square mile numbers blow our state out of the water.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Got one for Zone 8. Deer are not that plentiful around here. Wont be shooting one, would rather grow the herd than use the tag.

I have hunted Zone 8 for the last 30+ years and the herd is way way down from what it was and DFW doesn't seem to care.

Plus im sure some local loser around here will put in for a zone 9-12 permit
then use it to shoot a doe in zone 5 or 8. Happens alot around here unfortunately.

That has reached epidemic proportions these days along with reprinting the tag to fill again. Sad state of affairs.


Bob

 

[whacko]

All I have is 30+ years of actual hunting experience, of which I've found that when lots of antlerless tags were given in the western to central zones, the deer population was decimated in the 80's and 90's. The Fish and Game ignores coyote predation and bad winters in giving tags out as well.

The eastern zones have grown population but that's got more to do with lack of hunting land availability than anything else. Deer will grow well on small properties. I hunt them in Southern CT and there are a ton of deer down there, that is where I harvest does if I need to. Not in places I rarely see a deer.

My non use of a hunting permit does very little, I understand that, but there are guys at my work that do the same thing, because they are sick of seeing no deer and want to try and help the situation. Guys at my club are starting to do the same thing as well, because most of them are seasoned hunters who have seen the population fall over the years.

I'm not knocking people who use a permit....but come out here and hunt for a week and if you see a deer you'll be luckyThen want to kill the only deer I see??? When I was a kid maybe, but I've moved beyond that. Then I listen to the local idiots who do deer drives and shoot anything in sight take a 50# doe on a zone 13 permit in my zone complain there are no deer around.

Again..if your from the Eastern zones wail away....you probably won't do enough damage because there arent enough hunters around, land is unavailable to hunt, and deer have places to hide and regenerate in sanctuary. There are pockets in Central and western MA that does happen, but it's very spotty and limited.

Add to the fact, that the Fish and Game has deer per square mile goals that are very low...because they pander to the car insurance lobby. But that's a whole other story. Go to most other states in the eastern half of the country with the exception of Maine and NH, maybe VT. Their Deer per Square mile numbers blow our state out of the water.

Why do you think zone 8 is so low and zone 9 has a high population? On my survey last fall.....I put down 8 days afield and saw over 100 deer. I'm not joking. It was loaded with healthy does.

 

[Mark from MA]

Why do you think zone 8 is so low and zone 9 has a high population? On my survey last fall.....I put down 8 days afield and saw over 100 deer. I'm not joking. It was loaded with healthy does.

First off you saw 100 deer...were they the same deer in the same spot, or different deer. So did you see 15 deer and see them every day? or different...anyway, you get my meaning I'm sure.

I think there are drastic differences between those two zones...Zone 9/10 is lower elevation (i.e less snow, easier winter), urban sprawl, less hunting pressure, small lots of woods, which is typically ideal whitetail habitat, as the edge cover created by the sprawl and the lack of accessability to hunting for most limits pressure. Deer have sanctuary. In general, there are also less predators like bears, coyotes, bobcats...etc..although, that is changing as well in those zones...but typically predators are less.

Zone 5 and 8 (eastern parts of zone 8 are urban, and have more deer) contrast that with big woods less edge cover, lots of predators, more snowfall, high hunting pressure, very little sanctuary or posted land. It's probably a half hours drive or a little more from where you hunt, which doesn't seem like much, but conditions are very different at 900-1200 feet elevation as compared to 400. In fact, many would say we had an easy winter last year...well I plowed my driveway 10-12 times, had snow on the ground most of the winter......but if you live in Zone 9 you probably had rain.

Anyway, I just dont' think the state biologists account for hills and valleys in the western areas. In the valley's, there are probably a decent amount of deer...in the hills, not so much. I'd love to see either smaller zones more indicative of deer population density instead of an all out ban on doe hunting in western zones.....Because in places like Longmeadow, Ludlow, Springfield... etc in the western zones the population of deer is probably pretty good, and some does probably need to be taken.

I also do not think the state does arial surveys of deer..or I don't ever remember seeing one done....that is the best way to define the herd. They use that in a lot of states and on all the ranches in Texas to see what the actual count is. Up here obviously you'll miss some, but in the winter with leaves...probably not that much.

They've always relied on harvest stats.....which have increased....but you have to realize, when I started hunting.....you had the following...... bow season started Nov 12th or something and lasted two weeks, Shotgun was 1 week only (you had one buck tag, yes 1) , and very small amount of doe permits given. Muzzleloader was 3 days..and barely anyone hunted it. So that's give or take less than a month if you hunted all seasons. In that limited amount of time, I did better and saw more deer than I do now in the same areas.

now.....hell, Archery is 6 weeks with crossbows included (didn't have them before) , Shotgun 2 weeks (2 buck tags and most get a doe tag) , Muzzleloader (scoped rifles where we had to use smoothbore open sight) nearly 3 weeks, way more liberal doe permit system, zone tag trading, no check in, etc..........Its almost 3 months deer are hunted now. The harvest should go up with all the extra time, in fact the harvest should at least triple if the deer are out there to support it. So I'd expect easy 18-20K deer per year...I think we are generally between 10K-12K and stay at that level. The trend has been it stays pretty flat or decreasing in the western zones (ie harder to get a deer with even more time) and increasing in the eastern zones....mainly because of lack of pressure, more deer in the eastern zones and hunters from the east no longer travel out west.

Sorry...that was long winded....and Im sure I'm missing some stats...but overall if the state would look at limiting more does in the hill country, I think that's where we need to go. If your seeing 100 healthy does in a week....heck...no complaints there...sounds like your area is doing well. Which is good to see if people are actually hunting there and it's not some preserve type posted area that only a select few are hunting.

 

[whacko]

First off you saw 100 deer...were they the same deer in the same spot, or different deer. So did you see 15 deer and see them every day? or different...anyway, you get my meaning I'm sure.

I think there are drastic differences between those two zones...Zone 9/10 is lower elevation (i.e less snow, easier winter), urban sprawl, less hunting pressure, small lots of woods, which is typically ideal whitetail habitat, as the edge cover created by the sprawl and the lack of accessability to hunting for most limits pressure. Deer have sanctuary. In general, there are also less predators like bears, coyotes, bobcats...etc..although, that is changing as well in those zones...but typically predators are less.

Zone 5 and 8 (eastern parts of zone 8 are urban, and have more deer) contrast that with big woods less edge cover, lots of predators, more snowfall, high hunting pressure, very little sanctuary or posted land. It's probably a half hours drive or a little more from where you hunt, which doesn't seem like much, but conditions are very different at 900-1200 feet elevation as compared to 400. In fact, many would say we had an easy winter last year...well I plowed my driveway 10-12 times, had snow on the ground most of the winter......but if you live in Zone 9 you probably had rain.

Anyway, I just dont' think the state biologists account for hills and valleys in the western areas. In the valley's, there are probably a decent amount of deer...in the hills, not so much. I'd love to see either smaller zones more indicative of deer population density instead of an all out ban on doe hunting in western zones.....Because in places like Longmeadow, Ludlow, Springfield... etc in the western zones the population of deer is probably pretty good, and some does probably need to be taken.

I also do not think the state does arial surveys of deer..or I don't ever remember seeing one done....that is the best way to define the herd. They use that in a lot of states and on all the ranches in Texas to see what the actual count is. Up here obviously you'll miss some, but in the winter with leaves...probably not that much.

They've always relied on harvest stats.....which have increased....but you have to realize, when I started hunting.....you had the following...... bow season started Nov 12th or something and lasted two weeks, Shotgun was 1 week only (you had one buck tag, yes 1) , and very small amount of doe permits given. Muzzleloader was 3 days..and barely anyone hunted it. So that's give or take less than a month if you hunted all seasons.....

now.....hell, Archery is 6 weeks with crossbows included (didn't have them before) , Shotgun 2 weeks (2 buck tags and most get a doe tag) , Muzzleloader (scoped rifles where we had to use smoothbore open sight) nearly 3 weeks, way more liberal doe permit system, zone tag trading, no check in, etc..........Its almost 3 months deer are hunted now. The harvest should go up with all the extra time, in fact the harvest should at least triple if the deer are out there to support it. So I'd expect easy 18-20K deer per year...I think we are generally between 10K-12K and stay at that level. The trend has been it stays pretty flat or decreasing in the western zones (ie harder to get a deer with even more time) and increasing in the eastern zones....mainly because of lack of pressure, more deer in the eastern zones and hunters from the east no longer travel out west.

Sorry...that was long winded....

Not long winded. Good opinions and info

I hunted both shotgun and muzzle loader last season.

As far as the 100 deer I saw........I hunted 8 days in different towns and areas. I drive deer with a group so I'd say pretty damn sure they were different deer each time. 4 separate times I had a heard of over a dozen does move through the area I was sitting.......4 different areas. We harvested 1 or 2 deer on each of those drives. Those thick Laurel patches are full of deer first thing in the morning!!!! All harvested legally according to the tags each individual had......you know what I mean! We had a successful year. The rest of the deer I'm accounting for in my survey answer were deer I saw harvested by others as well as seeing deer way too far away to take a shot at on power lines we were pushing. I did see over 100 in the 8 days I went out.

 

[Mark from MA]

Not long winded. Good opinions and info

As far as the 100 deer I saw........I hunted 8 days in different towns and areas. I drive deer with a group so I'd say pretty damn sure they were different deer each time. 4 separate times I had a heard of over a dozen does move through my area. We harvested 1 or 2 deer on each of those drives. All legally according to the tags each individual had......you know what I mean! We had a successful year. The rest of the deer I'm accounting for in my survey answer were deer I saw harvested by others as well as seeing deer way too far away to take a shot at on power lines we were pushing. I did see over 100 in the 8 days I went out.

Thanks.....

I'm actually glad to hear there are people out there seeing that many....and good you are having successful hunts too. I'm not some elitist turd who wants nobody to shoot a doe. I think it's important that management in certain areas of the state needs to be addressed.

I will leave it at this....with the low population density in my area...the one caveat of that is we are getting some real trophy bucks from this part of the state now....few and far between. I still don't think food and genetics are like the Midwest obviously, but survival of the fittest is rearing some quality. I'm not all into it like I used to be, but for a guy that has time and wants to work at it to locate these monsters, there are some corkers in my area that pop up on occasion. Problem is 90% of the time, because of hunting pressure..they walk around at night.

 

[whacko]

Thanks.....

I'm actually glad to hear there are people out there seeing that many....and good you are having successful hunts too. I'm not some elitist turd who wants nobody to shoot a doe. I think it's important that management in certain areas of the state needs to be addressed.

I will leave it at this....with the low population density in my area...the one caveat of that is we are getting some real trophy bucks from this part of the state now....few and far between. I still don't think food and genetics are like the Midwest obviously, but survival of the fittest is rearing some quality. I'm not all into it like I used to be, but for a guy that has time and wants to work at it to locate these monsters, there are some corkers in my area that pop up on occasion. Problem is 90% of the time, because of hunting pressure..they walk around at night.

I'm still in the "fill my freezer" stage of hunting and 80 pound make great tasting meals.

The does are healthy that I saw. My buddy shot a 114 pound doe! She was faaaaaat!

 

[Mark from MA]

I'm still in the "fill my freezer" stage of hunting and 80 pound make great tasting meals.

The does are healthy that I saw. My buddy shot a 114 pound doe! She was faaaaaat!

No argument there......60-80 pound doe is nature's veal. That's not really a stage...cause I still target smaller deer like that to eat. Its just nice to take two of them instead of one, which in CT isn't that hard........you might feel a little bad when you shoot it, but you won't when its on your fork.

 

[Winchester73]

TTT, just as a reminder to all....