Mass is full of Moonbats...

[Admin]

Who ever said if you worked at Pizza Hut or McDonalds you should have your own home or apartment, car, and extra spending money? When I worked there at 15 years old I lived at home. The people who were older than me were either managers or they were working more than one job and had the working skills of a monkey.

Just because you are employeed doesn't mean you deserve the same benefits as someone who has busted their ass to advance themselves in life. Life isn't fair, it never has been and it never will be. America provides everyone with a chance to make it, it's up to the person to make it happen.

If MA is expensive it's because millions and millions of people CAN afford it. I would love to live in San Fran during the summer, but I can't, because I can't afford it...

This thread belongs over at the Democratic Underground

 

[JonJ]

Socialism and the redistribution of wealth.
Take a look at Kerry's health care plan he just "unveiled" a few days ago.

 

[C-pher]

Just because you are employeed doesn't mean you deserve the same benefits as someone who has busted their ass to advance themselves in life. Life isn't fair, it never has been and it never will be. America provides everyone with a chance to make it, it's up to the person to make it happen.

And I don't know anyone that's said that yet.

All I said was that that everything else may be behind, but is moving along with cost of living and inflation.

The min wage isn't. That's my only point.


Just because you make 80K instead of 10K a year doesn't mean that you are a different. You are just in a job that commands more money due to education and the like.


But, even if you were in that 80K job, and you didn't get peridoic cost of living increases, or raises you would be pissed. And if you say that it's not true...then you're living on Mars.

I hear people every day saying that they should be making more money...that things are more expensive and that they need a raise. It's in every office that I've worked.

But you guys are saying screw the working class because they are dumb and don't deserve some kind of pay raise.

Attack me if you want...I'm pretty much done...

 

[dwarven1]

But, even if you were in that 80K job, and you didn't get peridoic cost of living increases, or raises you would be pissed. And if you say that it's not true...then you're living on Mars.

I hear people every day saying that they should be making more money...that things are more expensive and that they need a raise. It's in every office that I've worked.

But you guys are saying screw the working class because they are dumb and don't deserve some kind of pay raise.

Attack me if you want...I'm pretty much done...

C-pher, what thread are you reading? I didn't see anyone saying that!

Minimum wage is just that - minimum. EVERY job I've ever had, including working at a stop&rob and fixing hand tools, has had pay raises. Minimum is just where you start out!

And why don't you ask your Mom what the effect would be of a mandated increase in the minimum wage on her business? I'll bet she'd say what we've been saying all along - that she'd have to decrease her staff to stay profitable.

 

[C-pher]

Really, it wouldn't effect her store as she's already paying above what the proposed min wage would be.

So, she can keep less and have better employees.

 

[Chris]

Because they're Barking Moonbats?

Thank you Ross for finally using the correct phrase as was established in 2002 by Perry de Havilland of Samizdata, a libertarian weblog.

As originally used, the term suggested that certain issues seem to trigger a reflexive response from some people much like wolves howl at the moon (i.e. the term evokes the traditional association between the moon and insanity). According to de Havilland, a moonbat is "someone on the extreme edge of whatever their -ism happens to be". Adriana Cronin-Lukas defines the term as "someone who sacrifices sanity for the sake of consistency".

As Ferris Bueller said, "I don't believe in -isms".

 

[senorFrog]

C-Pher, you're no moonbat, you're right.

I heard over and over again when I worked at Stone & Webster the reason why we couldn't attract good new young talent was because no one could afford to live in Massachusetts. Young engineers got their education here and left in droves. It's got nothing to do with minimum wage, but you just can't live on what they pay in the beginning of your career.

Find me one engineer who is making minimum wage.

S&W went out of business because they speculated heavily in nuclear power when public sentiment was very much against it.

 

[reinbeau]

Really, it wouldn't effect her store as she's already paying above what the proposed min wage would be.

So, she can keep less and have better employees.

Well, see, then your Mom is doing it right. That's one of the biggest problems, businesses don't want to pay workers a good wage. That's why the illegals are so popular, they work for peanuts and keep their mouths shut.

As for the DU comment, it's not called for, Derek. You really can see the problems with wages without being a communist.

And for the record, I am not a proponent of raising the minimum wage. It does nothing but raise the bar on wages without helping people rise up economically.

 

[senorFrog]

C-Pher my friend you're all over the map. I don't know where to start.

But as was pointed out. It will also bring BETTER employees. Because they can be picky on who they hire.

No it won't, minimum wage is the MINIMUM. Everyone gets it. Every employer must pay it. No one will work harder for minimum wage because there is no incentive to do so.

It takes more people to do the job because the majority are drinking every night...calling in sick. Not working when they are supposed to be.

So raising the minimum wage is going to miraculously cure all these lazy, drunk slackers? Why would it? They can continue with their personal behavior and get a raise.

Maybe raising the minimum wage would allow them to buy more alcohol so they'd call in sick more and work less. I'm officially advocating lowering the minimum wage to help these people out.

Market raised, better employees, you don't need as many. AT MOST JOBS.

So now raising the minimum wage makes a pizza cook faster?

Now, I walk into Papa's and there are like 12 people back there. Some are talking on their cell phones. Some are just sitting down at a table talking to their friends. Most aren't working. They don't need that many people.

Sounds like a management issue. Usually starts at the top.

 

[Jose]

C-pher, If I don't get a raise, I work harder. If I still don't get one, I use my significant amount of marketable skills, education, knowledge, and drive to FIND a job that pays better.

I have actually moved halfway across the country to take jobs that moved me up several rungs up the ladder in both pay and responsibility.

And yes, I am different from someone who is 40 years old and is still on minimum wage jobs. I've made sacrificies to study and become educated. I've made sacrificies to work long hours (without overtime, since I've always been on a salary) to learn and excel at my profession. I've made sacrificies to work long hours to see complex projects come to fruition to benefit my employer. And I have seen those sacrifices pay off handsomely.

People who depend on and expect the .gov to get them the raises and cost of living "adjustments" needed to stay afloat do not get my sympathy.

I bet you are next going to advocate for a government-funded and guaranteed retirement system.

 

[EddieCoyle]

But, even if you were in that 80K job, and you didn't get peridoic cost of living increases, or raises you would be pissed. And if you say that it's not true...then you're living on Mars.

Last time I checked, nobody has a gun to anybody's head to make them stay at a job. People are paid what they're worth. If somebody is underpaid, or doesn't get the pay raises that they feel they have coming, it is up to that individual to find a job that will pay them what they are worth.

 

[Admin]

T-Minus 10 to C-pher thowing in the towel and realizing he is too far left on this issue....

 

[senorFrog]

T-Minus 10 to C-pher thowing in the towel and realizing he is too far left on this issue....

Man, no offence to C-Pher because he's one of us, but moonbats are like an infinite loop. Once you show them the errors of their ways, they go very happily right back to the top of loop, ready to repeat all the bad instructions over and over and over again.

 

[Admin]

I still like him, even though he's a closet liberal.

 

[dwarven1]

I still like him, even though he's a closet liberal.

I think he came out of the closet in this thread.

But... how can he be a liberal? He owns *shudder* GUNS!

I'm so confused...

 

[dreppucci007]

I think he came out of the closet in this thread.

But... how can he be a liberal? He owns *shudder* GUNS!

 

[C-pher]

Really the only liberal thing with me I guess is this issue.

And I'm sure I'm going to catch hell at the baseball game...


And Frog, I love how you twist what I say. I never said that raising the min wage will make pizzas cook faster. That's an assinine statement.

I'm just saying, you pay more and you will get better employees.

I do understand that when everyone is paid the same, you're going to get the same workers... And I guess, when you pay more than the min wage, you can be more picky as who you choose.

So I do see what you're saying. So don't think that I keep going to the top rung. I'm not that stupid...and I don't like the thought that you would think that.

Unlike most, I can see the other side.

I guess, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I've had to work those jobs growing up. And a lot of time, those min wage jobs are the steping stones to better jobs and more money. Whether it be during college, or to move ahead in a company that's paying that min wage salary.

The fry cook at Mc Donalds... You can't just buy a Micky D's. You have to work every postion and work your way up the ladder, then you will be able to buy one. And Mc Donalds will help you do that if you need it. I only know this because I had several friends that worked at MD's in high school and now own a few. They are richer than hell with no education other than High School.

But, they worked at it.

I do know that not all min wage jobs are stepping stones. But I'm sure that the frog will twist that so it looks like I do...

 

[dwarven1]

I'm just saying, you pay more and you will get better employees.

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!! We have a winnah!

EXACTLY the point we're trying to get across. If you pay more, you get better employees. And if all you want is someone to sweep floors, why do you want to be forced to pay more? Why not get the cheapest labor you can?

Here's another argument for you: raise the minimum wage, and you're making it more appealing for employers to hire (dramatic pause here...) ILLEGAL ALIENS. Who will work hard, and will work for cash off of the books. Thus making that minimum wage put MORE citizens out of work.

 

[Pilgrim]

I remember when I was making the minimum wage of $1.00/hr (anyone remember that far back?). I busted my butt and got a raise to $1.10.hr...I was working in a shoe warehouse - remember when Mass. was the shoe making capital of the world?

When I got the raise - 10% was, and still is a pretty good raise - the other slackers I worked with were pizzed becasue they'd been there longer than me.

So what happens? Shortly thereafter, the govt raises the minimum wage to $1.10. Now I'm making minimum AGAIN even though I busted my hump to better myself.

Same thing happens today. If the min goes up another $2.00/hr, do I get another $2? Nope. All it does is drag the effective pay of those making more than min, DOWN, and inflation goes up, hurting everybody, including those who just got the raise.

Talk about current raises... I got ONE raise in the past FIVE years...and a small one at that. The company is stuggling. I figure at my age I'm lucky to have a job.

 

[senorFrog]

And Frog, I love how you twist what I say. I never said that raising the min wage will make pizzas cook faster. That's an assinine statement.

<meaningless rant cut>

I do know that not all min wage jobs are stepping stones. But I'm sure that the frog will twist that so it looks like I do...

Hey man, it's not my fault that we're on page 8 and your STILL making the same arguments you made on page 1, which have been debunked over and over again by many people.

 

[Jaxon]

I remember when I was making the minimum wage of $1.00/hr (anyone remember that far back?). <SNIP>

Not a buck, but a $1.73 for my first PT job shining silver at a Rogers Jewelry store. Bout the only thing good that came out of that job was the (then) ability to engrave jewelry. I'm sure technology has long ago bypassed me.

Anyway....

RJ

 

[TY43215]

This discussion all comes down to one thing. What you have seen is a case of lazy people working for unmotivated supervisors, screwing off and looking for more money.

Those Pizza pushers need to get to work. Minimum wage be damned, whatever they make they are over paid.

(I remember $1.05 as big money for a 12 yr old)

 

[Lugnut]

.

I'm just saying, you pay more and you will get better employees.

I disagree completely with this. If you raise minimum wage do you think the employees will suddenly make companies more profitable to justify their increased wages?

Let companies determine what they can afford. The market will determine what the rates should be not the government.

I've always chuckled at people that complain about how their company/boss should be paying them more. If they don't like it there they have all the freedom to get another job somewhere else for more.

Illegal employees is a completely different issue and should be left out of this discussion IMO.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by C-pher
.

I'm just saying, you pay more and you will get better employees.

So, if you up the minimum wage, you're going to get better entry level people?

 

[senorFrog]