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Mass Legal Combat Shotguns

you can also buy a beretta 1301 with pistol grip and fixed stock.
1301 is sweet too because it will even cycle 9 shot target loads
 
bigben111435 said:
has this been so for a while? the only place i see that wording is in h2358
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In MA? Only since 1994. It is part of the federal 1994 assault weapons ban, which has been incorporated into the MGL. You can choose one evil feature on your semiautomatic shotgun - a pistol grip or a magazine greater than 5. Two evil features and it is an illegal assault weapon.
 
M1911 said:
I don’t know how a court would interpret it.
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If it gets to a court, you've already lost. In order to interpret at at all, the court would have to find ambiguity, and the language is pretty clear. Otherwise, you'd have to challenge it on other grounds. But if Maura's goons are looking for a reason to harass a dealer, I can guess how they will interpret it.
 
Hummm. I have my Dad’s old Winchester 12 in the back of the safe. Seems it’s a good platform to make a trench gun with. I may have to take that on as my next project.
 
Parker Schreiber said:
If it gets to a court, you've already lost. In order to interpret at at all, the court would have to find ambiguity, and the language is pretty clear. Otherwise, you'd have to challenge it on other grounds. But if Maura's goons are looking for a reason to harass a dealer, I can guess how they will interpret it.
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Yes... the language pretty clearly refers to an AK. Spelled out, in Russian.
 
DarthRevan said:
Get a 1301 with regular stock grip and then the tube capacity doesn’t matter.
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This is false.

There are two elements of MGL Chapter 140 section 131M to deal with. One is the AWB. The second is a large capacity feeding device.

For a shotgun, any capacity over 5 rounds is a large capacity feeding device. So while the shotugn might not be in violation of the AWB, it can still be a felony for a large capacity feeding device.


EVERYONE seems confused about shotguns with built in tubes. I blame Glidden. His book got it seriously wrong.


Start with any tube on the shotgun over 5 rounds is a large capacity feeding device. MGL 140 121 definition reads "a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells"

That is very clear. But there is a conflict with the definition of large capacity weapon. This reads "The term large capacity weapon ... shall not include ... any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action". So if you have a pump shotgun, it is NOT a large capacity weapon even though it has a large capacity feeding device so essentially you cannot be prosecuted for it. But if you take the tube off, you now have a large capacity feeding device in the raw and no conflict and could be prosecuted.


So a semi auto shotgun with a 7rd tube is black and white a large capacity feeding device on a large capacity weapon. You are exposed. No dealer should sell this weapon. Anyone in MA who possess it should know they have risk.


The one silver lining is that Glidden said in his book that he considered this to be unprosecutable. But his list of mistakes in his book is quite long so I personally should not count on his utterance.


So no, you cannot legally have a 7rd tube on a 1301
 
CrackPot said:
This is false.

There are two elements of MGL Chapter 140 section 131M to deal with. One is the AWB. The second is a large capacity feeding device.

For a shotgun, any capacity over 5 rounds is a large capacity feeding device. So while the shotugn might not be in violation of the AWB, it can still be a felony for a large capacity feeding device.


EVERYONE seems confused about shotguns with built in tubes. I blame Glidden. His book got it seriously wrong.


Start with any tube on the shotgun over 5 rounds is a large capacity feeding device. MGL 140 121 definition reads "a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells"

That is very clear. But there is a conflict with the definition of large capacity weapon. This reads "The term large capacity weapon ... shall not include ... any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action". So if you have a pump shotgun, it is NOT a large capacity weapon even though it has a large capacity feeding device so essentially you cannot be prosecuted for it. But if you take the tube off, you now have a large capacity feeding device in the raw and no conflict and could be prosecuted.


So a semi auto shotgun with a 7rd tube is black and white a large capacity feeding device on a large capacity weapon. You are exposed. No dealer should sell this weapon. Anyone in MA who possess it should know they have risk.


The one silver lining is that Glidden said in his book that he considered this to be unprosecutable. But his list of mistakes in his book is quite long so I personally should not count on his utterance.


So no, you cannot legally have a 7rd tube on a 1301
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Then by your own interpretation of the definition no semi autos are legal because the tube can be readily converted to accept more than five with all the kits out there.

At one point it was described to me by someone more knowledgeable than I that the tube could be greater than five so long as the firearm didn’t have additional features.

Either way, be an adult and make your own decisions. I’m not a lawyer.
 
Soundwave said:
Is a 1301 Mod 2 with mag limiter cool?
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not the way mag limiters are done for hunting. Those are easily removed returning the capacity to over the limit.

If you put a limiter in from the end by unscrewing the end cap the retains the barrel and gives access to the tube, and then epoxy that end cap, you would be fine.
 
DarthRevan said:
Then by your own interpretation of the definition no semi autos are legal because the tube can be readily converted to accept more than five with all the kits out there.

At one point it was described to me by someone more knowledgeable than I that the tube could be greater than five so long as the firearm didn’t have additional features.

Either way, be an adult and make your own decisions. I’m not a lawyer.
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Your friend is telling you why it is not an assault weapon which is one element of MGL 140 131M. He is correct that without other features it is not an assault weapon.

The fact that you need PARTS and TOOLS to convert to over capacity means you are safe. Otherwise every 10rd glock mag on the planet would be illegal since +2 kits are readily available. We don't need to migrate to the absurd.

It is very unlikely that anyone will get jammed up for a 7rd tube on a 1301 in practice given how everyone has been "trained" by Glidden's book. The real risk is that like happened in 2018 with the shockwave and SBRs, the AG office actually goes and READS the damn law and realizes there is a problem. Then they send letters to everyone and poof, you are all future felons.
 
Parker Schreiber said:
I know that and you know that, but the statute reads:
"The term 'semiautomatic assault weapon' means—"(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as—"(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);"

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean–neither more nor less.'
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It says semiautomatic assault weapons, the Norinco Trench Gun copy is a pump shotgun. I believe thats not even in the same category.
 
Shevchenko said:
i started kind of researching what it takes to make an SBS here, almost had a second stroke
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Cap'n Mike said:
Its not to bad if you do it on a bare pump receiver and eform1 it.
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Where can you buy a bare pump receiver that never had a barrel on it? I understand you could technically buy a 14” Mossberg Shockwave and Form 1 it because it’s technically not a shotgun in MGL. But you better be certain it was a 14” version and not an 18” version.

MGL Ch 140 Section 121:
“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.”

MGL Ch 269 Section 10:
“(c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a).”

Are you willing to risk life in prison over a technicality that your bare shotgun receiver wasn’t actually a shotgun before having a a barrel less than 18” put on it?
 
PappyM3 said:
Where can you buy a bare pump receiver that never had a barrel on it? I understand you could technically buy a 14” Mossberg Shockwave and Form 1 it because it’s technically not a shotgun in MGL. But you better be certain it was a 14” version and not an 18” version.

MGL Ch 140 Section 121:
“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.”

MGL Ch 269 Section 10:
“(c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a).”

Are you willing to risk life in prison over a technicality that your bare shotgun receiver wasn’t actually a shotgun before having a a barrel less than 18” put on it?
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Everything in life has risk, simply owning a gun of any kind in Massachusetts puts a legal target on your back.
I'm not losing any sleep over it.
If your worried about violating the above "Sawed Off Shotgun' law, then don't form 1 a Shotgun.
MGL Chap 40 sec 21 “Shotgun”, a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.
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If you email Mossberg, they will provide you with written documentation of how a serial numbered receiver was originally configured.
What information is "The Man" going to provide that contradicts that?

Im confident my Short Barrel Shotgun is as legal in this state as any of my other NFA items, of which I have half a dozen, or any of my other firearms for that matter, but if "The Man" wants to stick it to me, Im sure they could find a way.
Mossberg 590A1 SBS.jpg
 
Cap'n Mike said:
Everything in life has risk, simply owning a gun of any kind in Massachusetts puts a legal target on your back.
I'm not losing any sleep over it.
If your worried about violating the above "Sawed Off Shotgun' law, then don't form 1 a Shotgun.

If you email Mossberg, they will provide you with written documentation of how a serial numbered receiver was originally configured.
What information is "The Man" going to provide that contradicts that?

Im confident my Short Barrel Shotgun is as legal in this state as any of my other NFA items, of which I have half a dozen, or any of my other firearms for that matter, but if "The Man" wants to stick it to me, Im sure they could find a way.
View attachment 859574
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Yup, everything has risk. But the risk in this case is severe. Maybe the likelihood is low, but the impact is massive, which increases overall risk rating. And the reward is not that high for an SBS, for me personally. Only use case for an SBS would be for a breaching shotgun, otherwise 18” doesn’t really matter. If I’m doing ballistic breaching, laws aren’t a concern anyway. But, again, that’s me. The risk/reward ratio is way off kilter for SBSes in MA.

But if someone does want an SBS in MA, they better go ahead and buy a 12” shockwave now before the current legislation makes it way to the fuhrer’s desk.
 

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