Mass. out-migration study. Everyone is leaving!

[M1911]

Oh brother!

Haven't seen any "refugees" complaining about their exit from MA yet here on the board. Seems they're all pretty satisfied with their moves.....actually quite happy about it.

I hear the "medical care" excuse all the time. Isn't it amazing that the vast majority of the population of this country lives outside and away from of the northeast and thrives, generation to generation with great medical care?

There are plenty of large metro areas across the country with good medical care. There are a lot of rural areas with limited access to good medical care. Access to good medical care is not an issue for many people. But some of us "win" the health crisis lottery and need advanced medical care. There are many people who are injured or die each year due to adverse medical events. Those adverse medical events can happen in a "good" hospital, but I suspect that they are more likely in a "bad" hospital.

We plan to move to southern NH this fall. We will still be close enough to the Boston hospitals if needed.

I certainly understand that other people have different priorities. That's fine. I don't denigrate other's priorities.

 

[Garys]

Good reply. Mine was going to be a lot nastier and along the lines that it's good that no one in the world cares if he lives or dies. But, I would never say that, so I didn't.

No place is perfect, but some are more sane to live in than others. There are always trade offs. Like you, proximity to good care was one of our three main requirements. Another was a major airport within in an hour, and the last (for my wife) was various shopping options fairly nearby. The fourth criteria which wasn't on the radar when we started considering this, was having family nearby. We realized that just as we had given support to our parents as they became elderly, we too would need that and in general it's your kids who provide that.

None of what you are complaining about is anything that he said nor does it contradict anything he said. What you said is true and what he said is also true.

Yes, MA sucks in many ways. Traffic is terrible, roads are terrible, insurance is high, we have a significant drug problem (as does NH, by the way), many of the schools are bad, the ERs are packed, and the taxes are high.

But that doesn't change the fact that if you have family, friends, and a career in MA in can be hard to leave. Nor does it change the fact that outside of Dartmouth-Hitchcock, the NH hospitals are crap.

 

[M1911]

The fourth criteria which wasn't on the radar when we started considering this, was having family nearby. We realized that just as we had given support to our parents as they became elderly, we too would need that and in general it's your kids who provide that.

We don't have kids so that isn't a consideration for us. Of course, it is a worry for me as to who will care for us if we become infirm. My mother wouldn't have lived to 99 if she hadn't been living with my younger sister.

 

[Dench]

We plan to move to southern NH this fall. We will still be close enough to the Boston hospitals if needed.

Rich!

just kidding I'm jealous, congratulations

 

[M1911]

Rich!

As expensive as southern NH is, it is cheaper than MetroWest, where we are now.

 

[Garys]

My MIL lived to 102, in large part because my wife gave her great support. Especially when her (MIL) stubbornness lead to making her problems worse. That was part of the reason we didn't move years sooner.

We don't have kids so that isn't a consideration for us. Of course, it is a worry for me as to who will care for us if we become infirm. My mother wouldn't have lived to 99 if she hadn't been living with my younger sister.

 

[Dench]

As expensive as southern NH is, it is cheaper than MetroWest, where we are now.

Yeah I can see that. I used my insane amount of money from my MA homes sale to make my mortgage down here quite reasonable by modern standards.

I unfortunately just could not get a foothold in NH. My job at the time had a living radius that did not allow for NH. So if I move to NH I'll eventually get fired.

Then when I recently got an offer from a department on the border in NH one of the reasons I had to decline it was that also had a living radius and $23 an hour isn't paying a southern NH mortgages.

So then I applied to a department in Northern NH. They initially wanted to hire me, met in person, had a great interview and poof, they hire several people and I wasn't one of them. That one is looking suspicious to me.

Sadly i have to give up on returning to New England. I'll be up this summer I miss it to death.

 

[Garys]

Sadly, the game is often that they have to interview X amount of people to make it look like they didn't know who they wanted to hire before they even posted the job. It sucks, but it happens in both the public and private sectors. My daughter's boyfriend had a promising interview and the recruiter told him he's reach out in a day or so. That was in March and he's still waiting. Not really as he ended up with a better job.

Hang in there.

Yeah I can see that. I used my insane amount of money from my MA homes sale to make my mortgage down here quite reasonable by modern standards.

I unfortunately just could not get a foothold in NH. My job at the time had a living radius that did not allow for NH. So if I move to NH I'll eventually get fired.

Then when I recently got an offer from a department on the border in NH one of the reasons I had to decline it was that also had a living radius and $23 an hour isn't paying a southern NH mortgages.

So then I applied to a department in Northern NH. They initially wanted to hire me, met in person, had a great interview and poof, they hire several people and I wasn't one of them. That one is looking suspicious to me.

Sadly i have to give up on returning to New England. I'll be up this summer I miss it to death.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As expensive as southern NH is, it is cheaper than MetroWest, where we are now.

I agree. NES'rs make all sorts of assumptions.

My NH house is almost 50% larger than my former MA house. I have twice the amount of land. The MA house current value is ~$100K more than my NH house and the RE taxes are $1.5K higher, and I've made ~$75K in capital improvements in the NH house since I purchased it. I also paid ~$150K less for my NH house than the value of the MA house at the time of purchase. And I'm ~6 miles from the MA state line.

 

[Dench]

Sadly, the game is often that they have to interview X amount of people to make it look like they didn't know who they wanted to hire before they even posted the job. It sucks, but it happens in both the public and private sectors. My daughter's boyfriend had a promising interview and the recruiter told him he's reach out in a day or so. That was in March and he's still waiting. Not really as he ended up with a better job.

Hang in there.

The recent one is bizarre to me because the chief directly asked me to apply, he was happy with my credentials. Then post interview i hear I wasn't selected from a captain. Fair enough. But then the chief reached out again and still said he wanted to hire me when he gets another slot. I'm not sure what to think people are so afraid of liability I can't get any honest and direct feedback.

 

[Mark from MA]

I believed the lie and stopped at two.
They were in private schools until middleschool and homeschooling after.
Wife quit her well paying job to get a teaching degree/certificate and then teach at the kids school for less than 30% of what she would have made in her industry.

Both kids went to college (accounting and engineering) and paid off their own loans within 3 years. You don't need to pay for your kids college - you need to train them to go for an education that pays for itself, either a trade or degree.

Kids are expensive but so are all of the wants we redefine as needs within our priorities.

We believed the lie that kids were too expensive and we needed to invest in our future. So now I have a large home on a good sized lot but gave up the third child my wife and I had always planned.
If I had it to do over I would go for the kids without hesitation.

In most cases....people live to their means. If you want big, new and expensive things and have kids.....you better make bank. Because what happens is the kids end up being the same as the parents and it goes exponential.

We lived simply....taught our kids to do the same and not want for "things". Turned our my kids are better at that than even me......

 

[pastera]

In most cases....people live to their means. If you want big, new and expensive things and have kids.....you better make bank. Because what happens is the kids end up being the same as the parents and it goes exponential.

We lived simply....taught our kids to do the same and not want for "things". Turned our my kids are better at that than even me......

We live(d) pretty simply and stressed education and staying out of debt.
Both kids graduated with honors and are debt free.
Unfortunately that hasn't translated into being able to live on their own with interest rates and prices are insane and paying rent would mean little left over to save for a down-payment.
Sucks that they "did everything right" but can't move on because the prior generations screwed things up and passed the pain off on the next generation.

 

[pastera]

The recent one is bizarre to me because the chief directly asked me to apply, he was happy with my credentials. Then post interview i hear I wasn't selected from a captain. Fair enough. But then the chief reached out again and still said he wanted to hire me when he gets another slot. I'm not sure what to think people are so afraid of liability I can't get any honest and direct feedback.

Had a similar issue right out of high-school.
Couldn't get hired because of affirmative action then joined the guard and in basic got the word.they could finally hire me and hold the job until I was back home. Like a fool I was pussed and refused.
Would be eligible for retirement by now if I had used logic instead of emotion in the choice.

 

[Garys]

It might depend on the process and who gets to intervene. Maybe there was a local guy that he had to give preference to. Either way, good luck.

The recent one is bizarre to me because the chief directly asked me to apply, he was happy with my credentials. Then post interview i hear I wasn't selected from a captain. Fair enough. But then the chief reached out again and still said he wanted to hire me when he gets another slot. I'm not sure what to think people are so afraid of liability I can't get any honest and direct feedback.

 

[Garys]

It's a trade off as you know.

We cleared enough on our sale in MA to pay cash for a larger, newer, and more comfortable house in Texas. Like you we made some substantial capital improvements. One was needed, one was going to be needed, and one was optional, but important to us.

Some things are higher and some things are lower. We have less land, but that's okay. We're' no where near MA and that's okay too.

I agree. NES'rs make all sorts of assumptions.

My NH house is almost 50% larger than my former MA house. I have twice the amount of land. The MA house current value is ~$100K more than my NH house and the RE taxes are $1.5K higher, and I've made ~$75K in capital improvements in the NH house since I purchased it. I also paid ~$150K less for my NH house than the value of the MA house at the time of purchase. And I'm ~6 miles from the MA state line.

 

[Dench]

It might depend on the process and who gets to intervene. Maybe there was a local guy that he had to give preference to. Either way, good luck.

My hunch is they gave it to locals.

 

[DarthRevan]

1. Yeah. Those F'ing unproductive parasites who succeeded and are now making $300K. F them. Tax them into oblivion and then lock them in jail!

2. . . . . so how many kids do YOU have??? There IS a simple solution to this and the impending immigration disaster we are facing. (Birth rate is 1.66 per female - you're gonna see an "American" population decline over the next 50 years.). If the folks between 30 and 300 have more kids, all of our problems are solved. So get bangin!

Working on it.

Some of you make it sound so easy. "Just Move". I'm not a young man anymore. Do I just abandon my children and grandchildren and the rest of my family and friends? Move somewhere by myself and do what? Sit in a lawn chair swatting bugs in front of my doublewide?

Moving was the easiest difficult decision I’ve made.
Really only possible due to the field I work in but getting to live in a state where there are two parties is nice. Admittedly there are other engineering fields up here but I’m content with where I am for the moment, and I don’t have to pay MA income tax to feed the D machine.
Gun laws are my single issue vote and I knew that wouldn’t win in MA.

Yeah, well kids are expensive and it sucks being a tax slave. When you do OK for yourself and you know there aren't going to any breaks for you all the way up to and including paying full price for college, having more kids becomes a financial burden. That's just a fact.

Here’s where you’re thinking wrong, it’s not your responsibility to cover the bill for college.
Or if you are going to cover some, don’t rule out community colleges for the first two years. Unless you’re going STEM, it’s all a giant scam.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Some of you make it sound so easy. "Just Move". I'm not a young man anymore. Do I just abandon my children and grandchildren and the rest of my family and friends? Move somewhere by myself and do what? Sit in a lawn chair swatting bugs in front of my doublewide?

Think of all the restaurants you'll NOT have down there, KC. Not sure you'd survive in the middle of nowhere - especially if it isn't close to the ocean.

I've heard it all before.....a thousand times. Talk to the hand.

Next you'll tell me that the fees, fines and confiscatory taxes that people pay in MA are perfectly justified because the quality of life is so much better.
The traffic jams are just wonderfully enjoyable, the ambient background noise is just swell, the lines in any place you eat are absolutely fine, the roads are impeccable, the insurance rates are the best, the drug problem doesn't exist, the schools turn out high numbers of Mensa members, your hospital ERs are mostly vacant when you arrive with an emergency, your license plates and excise taxes are the cheapest in the nation.

Again.....Talk To The Hand......because the head isn't listening. I've been there, done that and can tell you unequivocally there are thousands of better places to live in this country. You just have to have the gumption to get up and go.

EDIT: And I didn't even cover the gun laws or the terminal leftist political corruption.

Sure. You can live in EBF, Missouri. But some folks like to have some variation in terrain. Or they love the ocean. Or the myriad of restaurant choices.

There is good and bad to all decisions. If there was just one right answer, everyone would live there.

I don't find traffic jams in mASS. But I don't travel to Boston. And when I have to go north-ish, I expect some traffic. Just like everywhere outside of EBF, Missouri.

My daughter lived in EBF for about 5 years. Sure you had a Walmart and a Lowe's. Outside of that, it was pretty sparse unless you drove 45-60 min to get to the traffic area with the restaurants and shops and such. We choose to live here, in part, to exchange some congestion for convenience.

 

[Da_lucche]

I can totally understand why some do not want to and I have had a change of opinion on the matter from when I first moved up here. It takes determination, will power and some "at the right place at the right time" for a lot of people.

The decision for us to move to NH was a months long process and definitely not an easy one to make and it hasn't become easier. It was probably made a bit simpler since we do not have kids. I went from being at 1 job for over 23 years in MA to banging through 3 jobs and finally landing on a solid one (even though I am making 25% less than I was in MA). Went from renting apartments and not having to care about what happens, to buying my first home and becoming "house rich" with all the $$$ needing to go into it. I am hoping down the line at some point, I'll actually be able to save some $$ to really enjoy my new found freedom and life up here.

 

[TLB]

Working on it.


Moving was the easiest difficult decision I’ve made.
Really only possible due to the field I work in but getting to live in a state where there are two parties is nice. Admittedly there are other engineering fields up here but I’m content with where I am for the moment, and I don’t have to pay MA income tax to feed the D machine.
Gun laws are my single issue vote and I knew that wouldn’t win in MA.


Here’s where you’re thinking wrong, it’s not your responsibility to cover the bill for college.
Or if you are going to cover some, don’t rule out community colleges for the first two years. Unless you’re going STEM, it’s all a giant scam.

I know it isn't my responsibility, but I wanted to do it. I wasn't going to tell my valedictorian that they couldn't go to whatever college they got into to study engineering and I also wasn't going to let my kids to rack up huge loans, even for non-basket weaving degrees. My wife and I have gone without plenty for many years to help make this happen. Starting my kids off right has been my main purpose in life since we decided to have them. They do have small loans to have some skin on the game.

Could I have had more kids and helped them less? Sure, but that wasn't what I wanted to do. If I had more money, I would have had more kids. I also have a plan for retirement, which must be everyone's first priority. Everyone else is free to decide differently.

 

[whatluck]

Some of you make it sound so easy. "Just Move". I'm not a young man anymore. Do I just abandon my children and grandchildren and the rest of my family and friends? Move somewhere by myself and do what? Sit in a lawn chair swatting bugs in front of my doublewide?

I've been staying busy, there's plenty to do. I have a lot more free time. An old friend bought a house close by so now we can aggravate everyone in town together. Aunt and cousin came to visit last week and loved it. Chillin in a lawn chair on the front porch in the middle of nowhere is cozy, you should try it.

 

[Mark from MA]

We live(d) pretty simply and stressed education and staying out of debt.
Both kids graduated with honors and are debt free.
Unfortunately that hasn't translated into being able to live on their own with interest rates and prices are insane and paying rent would mean little left over to save for a down-payment.
Sucks that they "did everything right" but can't move on because the prior generations screwed things up and passed the pain off on the next generation.

This.....Bidenflation.

Both renting as they both are out of state and can't live at home to dump enough into the bank for a down payment, about the only way for them to get enough to get a house right away, would be me giving them a chunk of money. Otherwise they have to wait......

It would not be out of the question to give them a downpayment to do an inlaw/house with one of them so we have a place to stay.

While the other we live closer to in our own situation, or maybe buy a bigger lot and carve off a lot for them....to get the other started.

I've helped them a lot with high dollar items like cars and medical at times. I feel we need to do our thing and also make sure our retirement is funded first.

My dad never had to deal with this shit.......simply wasnt enough money.....they say starting out was easier...not so sure.... we were making 1/4 of what we are making now, when we bought the house for 1/4 of what we just sold it for and interest rates were 8%. Interest on higher price is the killer really here.....and quite a difference maker I guess.

 

[DarthRevan]

I know it isn't my responsibility, but I wanted to do it. I wasn't going to tell my valedictorian that they couldn't go to whatever college they got into to study engineering and I also wasn't going to let my kids to rack up huge loans, even for non-basket weaving degrees. My wife and I have gone without plenty for many years to help make this happen. Starting my kids off right has been my main purpose in life since we decided to have them. They do have small loans to have some skin on the game.

Could I have had more kids and helped them less? Sure, but that wasn't what I wanted to do. If I had more money, I would have had more kids. I also have a plan for retirement, which must be everyone's first priority. Everyone else is free to decide differently.

I don’t mean to make it sound like I’m attacking you, so I hope you didn’t take it that way.
Knowing you’re okay with the path you took to help your kids is great. Not everyone is a valedictorian so they likely won’t get the same financial offer.

That said, the name on the BS(X)E degree is the same if you went there for four years or transferred in for the last. If they want to bankrupt you to go there then I have no problem telling my child to play the game too. I was able to only have Stafford loans to pay back because I was technically poor when I filed my taxes. That’s far more reasonable than the nonsense private schools are charging these days.

If my guy wants to chase his masters, get the company to pay for it. If he wants to be a welder, or some other tradesmen, I won’t tell him not to be, but I will make sure he’s financially literate enough to be prepared to stash money away and not blow it on the booms to be crushed in the busts like everyone else.

 

[Dennis in MA]

There are plenty of large metro areas across the country with good medical care. There are a lot of rural areas with limited access to good medical care. Access to good medical care is not an issue for many people. But some of us "win" the health crisis lottery and need advanced medical care. There are many people who are injured or die each year due to adverse medical events. Those adverse medical events can happen in a "good" hospital, but I suspect that they are more likely in a "bad" hospital.

We plan to move to southern NH this fall. We will still be close enough to the Boston hospitals if needed.

I certainly understand that other people have different priorities. That's fine. I don't denigrate other's priorities.

Maybe they don't need complex medical care. If I lived in EBF, Missouri, I might need to develop a massive coke habit. Is there a big enough coke pipeline in EBF Missouri? I actually don't know. But if I HAD a massive coke habit, I'd not move to EBF until I knew the pipeline was secure.

I have had PLENTY of clients who moved to FLA and then moved back b/c of medical issues.

Me? I'm as healthy as a horse and come from good stock. I could go anywhere and not worry about health care.

I agree. NES'rs make all sorts of assumptions.

My NH house is almost 50% larger than my former MA house. I have twice the amount of land. The MA house current value is ~$100K more than my NH house and the RE taxes are $1.5K higher, and I've made ~$75K in capital improvements in the NH house since I purchased it. I also paid ~$150K less for my NH house than the value of the MA house at the time of purchase. And I'm ~6 miles from the MA state line.

You're starting to sound like those NJ residents who tell you where they live based on how fast they can be in Manhattan. LOL

 

[M1911]

Me? I'm as healthy as a horse and come from good stock. I could go anywhere and not worry about health care.

My dad lived until age 85. My mom lived until 99. I thought I was healthy, right up until November 2022 when I was curled up on the floor of my home office moaning in pain...

I hope your luck holds.

 

[42!]

As expensive as southern NH is, it is cheaper than MetroWest, where we are now.

made the same move 6 years ago, do not regret,

 

[garandman]

Dartmouth Hitchcock is the one hospital in NH that seems to be good, so that is disappointing to hear.

First COVID case in NH was a Dartmouth Hitchcock employee.

What was their response? Sent him to Boston.

It’s a teaching hospital and certainly better than the others. Don’t think it’s ranked among the top teaching hospitals.

https://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/nh

If you want to hear something scary: about 30% of patients at New England Baptist are there from other hospitals. You are flat insane if you have a joint replacement anywhere but there or Mass General.

 

[M1911]

First COVID case in NH was a Dartmouth Hitchcock employee.

What was their response? Sent him to Boston.

It’s a teaching hospital and certainly better than the others. Don’t think it’s ranked among the top teaching hospitals.

https://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/nh

I don't think it is as good as MGH (few hospitals are). But I do think it is probably the best hospital in NH.

 

[garandman]

Oh brother!

Haven't seen any "refugees" complaining about their exit from MA yet here on the board. Seems they're all pretty satisfied with their moves.....actually quite happy about it.

//

Are you f***ing kidding?

We should have a map so we can ask “Show me where the bad Massachusetts hurt you.” They live here for decades because of the strong job market, high salaries, and strong education, and despite the whacky government. . Then they leave and start bitching.

Live wherever you want, for your own reasons.

 

[Garys]

I had a friend who was a fitness nut. He was also a Martial Arts instructor. When a group of us got together for drinks and cigars, he had water and ate home made trail mix.

Dropped dead at 68.

As my mother used to say, "Man plans, G-d laughs."

My dad lived until age 85. My mom lived until 99. I thought I was healthy, right up until November 2022 when I was curled up on the floor of my home office moaning in pain...

I hope your luck holds.