Massachusetts Reciprocity

[Coyote33]

MGL already (since 1998 GCA) states that the AG is to publish a list each year of states that MA reciprocates with. It's the same invisible list as the AG's "list" of approved handguns (that MGL also states the AG is supposed to publish).

Sorry, but this is not going to change unless some further USSC action demands it and even then, only with further courts ordering MA to comply!

What chapter and section is that? Years ago, I requested, and they finally did, an update to the MA Gun Laws Poster. It took a while, and some phone calls around to different state reps and the Statehouse Bookstore, but they came out with a new poster. I'll find the thread.

General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 269, Section 11

malegislature.gov

 

[drgrant]

First, I'm not convinced that other states recognize a MA LTC. I think it's more a matter of constitutional carry in those states. Second, the idea of a national reciprocity law bothers me. It would be the beginning of the feds having control and could lead to all kinds of bullshit

I think if the non shit states set up a compact between themselves thatd be a great start and you don’t need the feds to do that. Put forth an optional enhanced 4 or 5 yr license that can be issued by member states; you could easily get 40+ states on one license that way. It also drives a legal argument for full recognition. and if done properly it wouldn’t f*** up local state laws for basic cheap easy permits (like NH) etc.

 

[Coyote33]

Found it:

MA gun laws poster

MA gun laws (poster) If I wanted to put all the MA gun laws in one place, how do I find them all? Here is what I quickly found here on NES and on GOAL: http://www.goal.org/legislation/quickoverview.html 940 CMR 16.00: Handgun Sales http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/269-10.htm...

www.northeastshooters.com

see also:

Gun Violence report in the hands of DeLeo

EJ You better watch out, I have heard that Tolman wants to mandate that all currently owned guns will have to retrofitted with smart gun technology. Where are you hearing that? Everything I can find reads "All new guns sold in Mass" would have to have the smart gun technology.

www.northeastshooters.com

General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 269, Section 11

malegislature.gov

 

[Realtor MA]

I think if the non shit states set up a compact between themselves thatd be a great start and you don’t need the feds to do that. Put forth an optional enhanced 4 or 5 yr license that can be issued by member states; you could easily get 40+ states on one license that way. It also drives a legal argument for full recognition. and if done properly it wouldn’t f*** up local state laws for basic cheap easy permits (like NH) etc.

You should run for office. Lol. Although hanging around with the politician types would probably take years off your life.

 

[Wrench75]

Whatever. I'm GTG in 36 states w/ my SC permit. The other 14 are the places that I avoid like the plague.

However, the USSC's ruling said the laws have to follow what would be considered a traditionally/historically held restriction in order to be valid. It shouldn't take some super lawyer to be ably to adequately argue that the restriction applies to reciprocity laws as well. I don't remember words "...in your home state" being part of the 2nd.

Sure it would loose at the state level but it seems like the USSC is ready to settle this shit. If anything it will be hard to get a test case just because the states will be so afraid of what would happen with an appeal that they would just drop the charges or hand out a minor wrist slap. Which most people would jump at rather than take on the extra legal fees associated with going the distance with the case. Hell, NY tried to nope their way out of the case once they realized they were f***ed.

 

[Lank]

People need to understand, anti-gun states aren't going to simply roll over. They will do whatever they can to remain as anti-gun as possible.

The problem are the voters.

 

[drgrant]

The problem are the voters.

Especially these days, the fake ones, or the ones that would never vote if you didn't send free ballots to their house.. ...

 

[drgrant]

Same reason that the Dems didn't pass an iron-clad anti-anti-abortion law some time in the last 20 months. They honestly only care about getting reelected.


As far as why and GOAL, it's a non-starter. It's sort of like that guy talking shit to Mike Tyson on the plane a few months ago. Sure it might work. But odds are you're gonna get smashed in the face. Like HIGH odds you're gonna get smashed in the face. Same here. There is NO way a reciprocity bill is going to make it anywhere NEAR Bacon Hill.

Worse yet, reciprocity really has to be determined by the two states AGs. Mauron would still stall it even if a "bill" was miraculously passed. I don't know of a single state that has a reciprocity agreement anointed soley by legislation.

 

[drgrant]

It will take YEARS for Massachusetts to change its laws regarding carrying outside the home or grant reciprocity with any other state.

With regard to the recent SCOTUS decision, here's a likely scenario:
A LTC candidate gets restricted.

• Candidate sues the licensing authority
• State represents the licensing authority
• State gets repeated postponements from sympathetic Massachusetts judges.
• Either candidate or state eventually loses. Appeal process begins.
• More delays, postponements, motions to dismiss, other legal bulls**t ensues.
• Case goes to Federal court. More delays.
• Candidate eventually prevails based on the SCOTUS decision.

Reciprocity is whole other issue for which there is no precedent I am aware of. And with AG Healy as the presumptive next governer things are going to get even worse.

Unless a federal court forces big MA gun law changes its literally not possible. There are MA gun laws that are incompatible with laws from common reciprocity states. MA wouldn't even be able to be truly reciprocal with even an enhanced permit state. Core things being disqualifiers. MA iirc is the only state with permanent PP grade gun possession bans for certain low level crimes. Ex, first offense dui post may 94 and a whole bunch of others ive forgotten. You can't get reciprocity unless the differences are meaningless. Most free states don't do life bans for menial crap. MA does. (Absent weed, which changed because referendum)

 

[appraiser]

the big issue with MA and reciprocity IMHO would be IF a request for reciprocity was allowed so non MA licensed persons could rely on their home state license, ( we'll leave out non res licenses for the moment for this discussion) there is the MA adoption of (for all intents and purposes) the 1994 Federal AWB and the magazine restrictions tied to it.

Some poor visiting bastard is going to get jacked up in Boston with a post 6/94 high cap and get FUBAR'd

 

[drgrant]

the big issue with MA and reciprocity IMHO would be IF a request for reciprocity was allowed so non MA licensed persons could rely on their home state license, ( we'll leave out non res licenses for the moment for this discussion) there is the MA adoption of (for all intents and purposes) the 1994 Federal AWB and the magazine restrictions tied to it.

Some poor visiting bastard is going to get jacked up in Boston with a post 6/94 high cap and get FUBAR'd

Meh, that's not even anywhere near the biggest issue. Safe storage is 1000 times more likely to screw someone, for starters. That's a law easily forgotten about or ignored/misunderstood even by people who live here with LTCs. It's also much easier to "catch" someone violating that, if a gun gets stolen out of a car etc. (And most victims run their mouths to the police and actually unintentionally will admit they stored the gun wrongly, which doesn't help) they don't go to the police and go "I'm here to report a stolen locked case/container which contains a handgun".

There's tons of easily found safe storage cases in MA. AWB garbage tends to be on the "rare" side. Another hot one would be carrying under the influence. A guy could get bagged for CUI in mass for blowing a .02 on the side of the road..... although at least in that case most foreigners with licenses have a similar law, although the lower bar in MA is not readily apparent to a layperson unless they're really into studying garbage ma law. The AWB on the other hand is well known and easily avoided.

 

[FrugalFannie]

First, I'm not convinced that other states recognize a MA LTC. I think it's more a matter of constitutional carry in those states. Second, the idea of a national reciprocity law bothers me. It would be the beginning of the feds having control and could lead to all kinds of bullshit

not necessarily. Feds don't control our driving licenses but all states recognize each other's. Why not just a federal law that says every state MUST recognize any other state's LTC (or equivalent)?

 

[Uzi2]

First, I'm not convinced that other states recognize a MA LTC. I think it's more a matter of constitutional carry in those states. Second, the idea of a national reciprocity law bothers me. It would be the beginning of the feds having control and could lead to all kinds of bullshit

I can assure you that recognition of MA LTC in other states is correct. I've been stopped in IN, KY, OH, TN and all recognized my MA LTC without question. This was long before any of them were constitutional carry states.

 

[Waher]

Naw man, gotta vote R, they're going to give us reciprocity and suppressors once we have our red wave. It's going to be great. Trust the plan

The alphabet agency agents behind Q (notice how Q isn't public enemy No#1 at the Jan 6th Hearings with a 3am no knock helicopter raid after a nationwide manhunt at the top of the FBI's Most Wanted list) told me 'The Plan' is to repeal the Hughes Amendment first and then the NFA....

 

[AHM]

People need to understand, anti-gun states aren't going to simply roll over. They will do whatever they can to remain as anti-gun as possible.

The problem are the voters.

There is a solution.

Another hot one would be carrying under the influence. A guy could get bagged for CUI in mass for blowing a .02 on the side of the road.....

Yet another reason for declining the Sidewalk Olympics and roadside breath test.

 

[richc]

Fa la la, la la la, la, la, la, la

 

[JenkkiMike]

Shouldn't even be a thing, to being with !!! Do you need it for pleading the 5th or the 4th. DO you need to fill out an app, pay a few and wait for one person to deny or grant a RIGHT !!
Something is truly f***ed !

Exactly. National reciprocity is not good. The Federal government shouldn't be able to tell states what to do, BUT no state should be able to require any permitting for purchase, possession, or carrying of arms. Nationwide constitutional carry is what we should demand.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Exactly. National reciprocity is not good. The Federal government shouldn't be able to tell states what to do, BUT no state should be able to require any permitting for purchase, possession, or carrying of arms. Nationwide constitutional carry is what we should demand.

Just like all the other rights

 

[JenkkiMike]

Just like all the other rights

The Bruen case is a small win but it's also very disappointing in some ways. For example this is from Kavanaugh's concurring opinion:

"First, the Court’s decision does not prohibit States from imposing licensing requirements for carrying a handgun for self-defense. In particular, the Court’s decision does not affect the existing licensing regimes—known as “shall-issue” regimes—that are employed in 43 States."

It doesn't make any sense to me that you can read the language of the second amendment and then conclude that states imposing licensing requirements for carrying a handgun is anything other than infringement.

 

[microwave900]

I did not expect such a weak concurrence from Bart O’Kavanaugh. That was very disappointing. He didn’t even clarify that a majority of those 43 states are actually constitutional/permitless carry, not “shall issue”.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

The Bruen case is a small win but it's also very disappointing in some ways. For example this is from Kavanaugh's concurring opinion:

"First, the Court’s decision does not prohibit States from imposing licensing requirements for carrying a handgun for self-defense. In particular, the Court’s decision does not affect the existing licensing regimes—known as “shall-issue” regimes—that are employed in 43 States."

It doesn't make any sense to me that you can read the language of the second amendment and then conclude that states imposing licensing requirements for carrying a handgun is anything other than infringement.

100% agree

 

[M1911]

This is a waste of time. The MA legislature is overwhelmingly anti-gun. They aren’t going to pass a bill increasing reciprocity. Yes, GOAL can get a legislator to submit a bill that they write, but that bill will never even be considered in committee, let alone come to a vote on the floor of either house. The only way we will see increased reciprocity in MA is if it is forced down the legislature’s collective throats by SCOTUS.

 

[fishgutzy]

With the recent SCOTUS decision on carrying a firearm, I think we need to make the push for the Commonwealth to start recognizing other states carry permits. I had sent an email to GOAL about a month ago but had not received a reply yet. I realize there are other 2A issues to be addressed, but this might seem like a decent one to get some traction. According to Handgunlaw.us the following states will accept ours:

AK, AL, AR, AZ, GA, IA, ID, IN, KS, KY, MO, MS, MT, NC, NV, OH, OK, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, WI

We should at least reciprocate acknowledging those states (yes, we should accept them all, but we have to start somewhere). While I believe Constitutional Carry should be the law across the land, at least this would save time/energy on citizens traveling to Mass and to LE, and possibly avoid Imperial entanglements/lawsuits along the way. So how do we do it? Do I just call up my local rep and ask that they sponsor a bill? (unfortunately a Dem but I'm willing to give it a shot, pun not intended). What say you guys?

Only if I can carry NC legal magazine in MA with my NC permit. Why should I have to travel based on the lowest common denominator rather than all standard magazines? Of course I'd have to travel in a way that avoids even a fraction of DC because they arrest people for spent brass as unregistered ammo. Doesn't matter of your are not a resident.
Then there is Communist NY where the governor has practcally given a shoot to kill order for anyone with a gun.

 

[Hogie1]

Only if I can carry NC legal magazine in MA with my NC permit. Why should I have to travel based on the lowest common denominator rather than all standard magazines? Of course I'd have to travel in a way that avoids even a fraction of DC because they arrest people for spent brass as unregistered ammo. Doesn't matter of your are not a resident.
Then there is Communist NY where the governor has practcally given a shoot to kill order for anyone with a gun.

I only make the suggestion as a means to get things m moving in a positive direction in Mass. Hopefully we get another positive ruling out of SCOTUS that helps with mag capacity. We have to always be working, cause we know the Anti's certainly are.

 

[Garys]

Because we don't want the federal government sticking it's nose into what is a states issue. Once they get the camels nose under the tent flap, they can cause all sorts of mischief and claim jurisdiction under the Interstate Commerce Clause in the Constitution. It's why the DEA can charge someone with a crime if they use a gun or ammunition that was made in another state and shipped across state lines.

not necessarily. Feds don't control our driving licenses but all states recognize each other's. Why not just a federal law that says every state MUST recognize any other state's LTC (or equivalent)?

 

[M1911]

Because we don't want the federal government sticking it's nose into what is a states issue. Once they get the camels nose under the tent flap, they can cause all sorts of mischief and claim jurisdiction under the Interstate Commerce Clause in the Constitution. It's why the DEA can charge someone with a crime if they use a gun or ammunition that was made in another state and shipped across state lines.

Yup. Consider what would happen when (not if) the liberals get a majority on SCOTUS.

 

[Garys]

There is a difference between reciprocity and recognition. Since MA has no reciprocity with any state, states that recognize a MA LTC do so unilaterally. In the case of Texas it was by executive order of Gov. Rick Perry. Other states recognize every other state license or permit and some recognize some, but not all.

 

[Bruff]

New gem from the SJC

JORGE L. VEGA vs. COMMONWEALTH (and a consolidated case1).

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2022/07/11/m13182.pdf

"This means that if unlicensed firearm possession presents a menace of dangerousness, then including it as a predicate offense furthers the legitimate and compelling government interest of preventing extremely serious crime by arrestees. We conclude that unlicensed firearm possession is a dangerous menace."

Was this one of those cases the SJC sought out on its own in order to set a precedent they wanted?

Also does Bruen help in any way to get rid of license requirement to possess in one's own home/business?

 

[Bladerunner]

Just like all the other rights

Thomas laid it out bare. The 2nd Amendment is already a product of an interest balancing exercise. Therefore, all these onerous hoops needed to prove why one needs a gun and is a suitable person are meaningless and unconstitutional. In other words, natural rights trump the states desire to regulate your god given right to bear arms. Shall not be infringed is the only rule that need be followed.

 

[Bladerunner]

Yup. Consider what would happen when (not if) the liberals get a majority on SCOTUS.

This could happen next generation, which is why it is important to leave the best armory possible to your heirs along with the knowledge and values required for them to do the same.