Massachusetts Reciprocity

[Mesatchornug]

Was this one of those cases the SJC sought out on its own in order to set a precedent they wanted?

IIRC, SJC is the MA appellate level. It looks like this is an appeal case making its way through the ordinary channels

Also does Bruen help in any way to get rid of license requirement to possess in one's own home/business?

No. At best, Heller might. But so far, licensing is still recognized as legit.

This one will be interesting to follow...if they try to appeal further.

 

[pastera]

Right. Like when NY, CA, and MA keep screwing around and SCOTUS claps back:

A plain reading of Bruen would lead one to believe that reciprocity is required.
If a person has a federally recognized right to public carry then they retain that right throughout the US.

 

[42!]

not necessarily. Feds don't control our driving licenses but all states recognize each other's. Why not just a federal law that says every state MUST recognize any other state's LTC (or equivalent)?

First 2 years of Trump, it was ready to go, passed either the House or Senate, I forget. Then they sat on it even though they had the votes and Prez for an easy win. Our Gov at it's finest.

 

[M1911]

A plain reading of Bruen would lead one to believe that reciprocity is required.
If a person has a federally recognized right to public carry then they retain that right throughout the US.

Bruen does not address reciprocity.

 

[pastera]

Bruen does not address reciprocity.

No it doesn't but it does address the fact that you have the fundemental right to carry in public.
What other fundemental right eclipses across state lines?
Yes, voting but the isn't a fundemental right (it exists because you live in a republic)

 

[42!]

No it doesn't but it does address the fact that you have the fundemental right to carry in public.
What other fundemental right eclipses across state lines?
Yes, voting but the isn't a fundemental right (it exists because you live in a republic)

It also clearly allows for licensing with equally applied objective standards.
So there is an argument that a state with licensing MUST offer a non-resident license with the same limitation/requirements (other than residency), but they can require a license.

 

[M1911]

No it doesn't but it does address the fact that you have the fundemental right to carry in public.
What other fundemental right eclipses across state lines?
Yes, voting but the isn't a fundemental right (it exists because you live in a republic)

That will take a legal battle up to SCOTUS to decide. We both agree that reciprocity should be the rule, but it isn’t now and Bruen did not change that.

 

[pastera]

That will take a legal battle up to SCOTUS to decide. We both agree that reciprocity should be the rule, but it isn’t now and Bruen did not change that.

There is a lot that Bruen didn't cover as the only thing it did decide was that we have the right to carry in public for the purpose of self defense.
However in doing so it set a very high bar to infringement which opens many other avenues, including national carry.
The negative is SCOTUS confirmed a state's ability to license the exercise of rights - which in my opinion is really bad.

 

[fishgutzy]

New gem from the SJC

JORGE L. VEGA vs. COMMONWEALTH (and a consolidated case1).

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2022/07/11/m13182.pdf

"This means that if unlicensed firearm possession presents a menace of dangerousness, then including it as a predicate offense furthers the legitimate and compelling government interest of preventing extremely serious crime by arrestees. We conclude that unlicensed firearm possession is a dangerous menace."

Was this one of those cases the SJC sought out on its own in order to set a precedent they wanted?

Also does Bruen help in any way to get rid of license requirement to possess in one's own home/business?

The same SJC also ruled that the US Constitution only protects technology that existed in 1790. Even the libtards on SCOTUS saw the danger of letting that stand, reversed it unanimously.
D controlled states will keep passing bad unconstitutional laws to tie up law firm resources fighting them. D's are trying to run the clock until they can pack the court with like minded anti liberty communists.

 

[fishgutzy]

IIRC, SJC is the MA appellate level. It looks like this is an appeal case making its way through the ordinary channels

No. At best, Heller might. But so far, licensing is still recognized as legit.

This one will be interesting to follow...if they try to appeal further.

Next step could be challenging bans on open carry or requiring a permit to open carry.
in my state, open carry without a permit is legal. Only imported Karens from ANTI GUN states are freaked out at the sight of a gun down here.

 

[Toast]

I think if the non shit states set up a compact between themselves thatd be a great start and you don’t need the feds to do that. Put forth an optional enhanced 4 or 5 yr license that can be issued by member states; you could easily get 40+ states on one license that way. It also drives a legal argument for full recognition. and if done properly it wouldn’t f*** up local state laws for basic cheap easy permits (like NH) etc.

Actually, you do.

US Constitution, Article I, Section 10, Clause 3:

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.​

 

[Toast]

Meh, that's not even anywhere near the biggest issue. Safe storage is 1000 times more likely to screw someone, for starters. That's a law easily forgotten about or ignored/misunderstood even by people who live here with LTCs. It's also much easier to "catch" someone violating that, if a gun gets stolen out of a car etc. (And most victims run their mouths to the police and actually unintentionally will admit they stored the gun wrongly, which doesn't help) they don't go to the police and go "I'm here to report a stolen locked case/container which contains a handgun".

I think I'm struggling with the construction of that post. Are you saying that quoting above to the police gets you in trouble (huh?) or that the above quote is the way to avoid getting into trouble?

I think you're saying that the above quote is the way to avoid trouble, but if that's not what you're saying, I have to ask why.

 

[drgrant]

I think I'm struggling with the construction of that post. Are you saying that quoting above to the police gets you in trouble (huh?) or that the above quote is the way to avoid getting into trouble?

I think you're saying that the above quote is the way to avoid trouble, but if that's not what you're saying, I have to ask why.

more the latter, but as a generality people indict themselves too much and talk too much.

My point is that people turn into retards when it comes to something like reporting a stolen gun and potentially bring extra truckloads of pain on themselves by running their mouths. If they are not clear or concerned about what to do they really need to speak with a firearms attorney before doing so. It will save them lots of trouble later.

 

[drgrant]

Actually, you do.

US Constitution, Article I, Section 10, Clause 3:

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.​

no, you don’t.

There are plenty of voluntary agreements orchestrated between states. You know, things like reciprocity agreements, ezpass, etc. There is nothing legally that inhibits states from doing those things. Its not a “war compact” for states to share an interest in an entity or agreement for something like carry licenses.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

No it doesn't but it does address the fact that you have the fundemental right to carry in public.
What other fundemental right eclipses across state lines?
Yes, voting but the isn't a fundemental right (it exists because you live in a republic)

For what other constitutional right has SCOTUS upheld the constitutionality of requiring a fee based license to exercise that right?

Now that I have demonstrated the 2nd is different, the only issue is how far that difference extends.

 

[pastera]

It also clearly allows for licensing with equally applied objective standards.
So there is an argument that a state with licensing MUST offer a non-resident license with the same limitation/requirements (other than residency), but they can require a license.

If non-resident licenses are how things are handled it could get very expensive.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I think I'm struggling with the construction of that post. Are you saying that quoting above to the police gets you in trouble (huh?) or that the above quote is the way to avoid getting into trouble?

I think you're saying that the above quote is the way to avoid trouble, but if that's not what you're saying, I have to ask why.

He's referring to doing things like answering "no" and "no" when the responding officer asks if the gun was in a locked case, had a trigger lock, etc. or answering "yes" when asked if it was stored in the passenger compartment.

It's similar to felling a police officer who sees your gun case in the trunk while you are changing a tire in a school parking lot "I knew I could not carry on school property so I unholstered and cased my gun once I parked the car". You need to understand the nuances of the details you provide.

 

[pastera]

For what other constitutional right has SCOTUS upheld the constitutionality of requiring a fee based license to exercise that right?

Now that I have demonstrated the 2nd is different, the only issue is how far that difference extends.

Agree - upholding licensing was a big hit
It would have been better if licensing was to show the holder as non-prohibited, by passing background checks.

 

[MFSP101]

(Disclaimer) Resurrecting older thread. This subject came up. The other day. I for got some states recognize ma LTC. What does that really do for you? It’s not like you could just go out for a day. Purchase a gun if you found a deal. I know you could and ship to an ffl but not cost effective. Yes you could carry while visiting. Is there anything else that make it important? He was making a big deal out if it and showed me the map. But I do t think he’s ever left New England

 

[greencobra]

in a perfect world....

 

[556USER]

Massachusetts will reciprocate with any other state that has completely disarmed you. You won't have any freedom here or there.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Massachusetts will reciprocate with any other state that has completely disarmed you. You won't have any freedom here or there.

That’s about right.

Had an LTC for 40 years without a hiccup or even a speeding ticket and because I move out of state I now must show up in person Chelsea for a neutered card. No thanks. I’ll just avoid returning at all costs. It’s easier.
Funny how ME and NH plus many other states are able to conduct their own licensing reviews thru the post office.

 

[Palladin]

That’s about right.

Had an LTC for 40 years without a hiccup or even a speeding ticket and because I move out of state I now must show up in person Chelsea for a neutered card. No thanks. I’ll just avoid returning at all costs. It’s easier.
Funny how ME and NH plus many other states are able to conduct their own licensing reviews thru the post office.

The non resident ltc isn't neutered. But it takes 6 months to get or renew, and is only good for a year

 

[Asaltweapon]

The non resident ltc isn't neutered. But it takes 6 months to get or renew, and is only good for a year

I’m passing on that bs. 11 hours of driving back to a place I don’t want to be would be like water boarding myself.

 

[MassPete]

I’m passing on that bs. 11 hours of driving back to a place I don’t want to be would be like water boarding myself.

I got my Maine non-resident permit for the first time and it came in the mail in a little over 3 weeks. I renewed in my home state of Mass a month ago and haven't heard anything. I hope Maine doesn't go batshit crazy with this shooting.....

 

[Asaltweapon]

I got my Maine non-resident permit for the first time and it came in the mail in a little over 3 weeks. I renewed in my home state of Mass a month ago and haven't heard anything. I hope Maine doesn't go batshit crazy with this shooting.....

Yup. I kept that non resident license for years. Never a single problem or delay.
Converting it to resident was $2.00 iirc. All done by mail. Never waited longer than 3 weeks. Same with NH.

I keep the actual so I don’t have to declare carrying if interacting with any LEO.

 

[MFSP101]

Now that people are noticing this thread. Can you read my question in post post #109? Does anybody have a good answer?

 

[M1911]

Reciprocity allows you to carry in another state. That‘s it. In my opinion, that is a very big deal in and of itself.

 

[drgrant]

(Disclaimer) Resurrecting older thread. This subject came up. The other day. I for got some states recognize ma LTC. What does that really do for you? It’s not like you could just go out for a day. Purchase a gun if you found a deal. I know you could and ship to an ffl but not cost effective. Yes you could carry while visiting. Is there anything else that make it important? He was making a big deal out if it and showed me the map. But I do t think he’s ever left New England

It lets you lawfully carry a handgun in those states, there are a handful of states that feel pity on MA LTC holders. Its literally that simple.

The rest of it is meaningless because you dont need a license in most states for default unloaded possession, recreational use, home defense, etc.

ETA: "buying guns" has little or nothing to do with LTCs. btw.

 

[drgrant]

Reciprocity allows you to carry in another state. That‘s it. In my opinion, that is a very big deal in and of itself.

This is not reciprocity though MA has reciprocity with nobody.

There are some states that feel bad for us and recognize MA's license. thats basically it.

The inverse is not true. MA recognizes basically zero licenses other than its own.