Military casket flag general question and cool inheritance

[Nick Leduc]

Today, my uncle called me over to "give me something very important". I went to his house assuming it was going to be something cool, but never expected him to give me the flags from my grandfather's and great grandfather's funeral.

I have ordered 2 wooden frames so they can be displayed, but I question the authenticity of my great grandfathers after opening it up.

My grandfather's was in a plastic holder with the funeral parlor on it. Inside was (3) 30-06 casings. Which was an even more unexpected bonus!

My great grandfather's was just loose and folded poorly. I opened it to get a tighter fold on it and noticed the flag had 50 stars. He passed in 1954. The 50 star flag wasn't used until 1960. The two flags are made by Valley Forge and both are of the same quality. The stars are different.

My question would be, were flags ever replaced by the Post Office (their website says they currently do not). Clearly I do not have the actual flag used during my great grandfathers funeral (should be 48 stars) but am curious as to the possibility of how the story of it being his flag came to be.

Either way, I have an extremely thoughtful gift handed down to me from a great guy and will display it either way.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Nick, such a great gift to pass down. My oldest sister has a growing wall of flags from our family.

Delicately I ask: Was your Great Grandfather KIA and returned home in 1960? The Korean War went into treaty in July of 1953. Did he serve there?

I wish you the best of luck in getting the information you seek.

Matt

 

[greencobra]

Was your Great Grandfather KIA and returned home in 1960? The Korean War went into treaty in July of 1953. Did he serve there?

photo of the headstone says he was born in 1875, little old to make korea.

ok, the obvious. did you count the stars on the other flag? thinking the 2 flags were mixed up over the years, it happens sometime when they get handled and people want to refold them better. sorry, can't contribute more than that.

 

[garandman]

Actual practice seems to differ from what is correct.

An Interment Flag is 5’ x 9-1/2 (regular flag would be 5x8). My father in law was a WWII vet, and the funeral home seems to have used a 6’x10’ flag instead of the proper one. I only noticed because the stars were much larger.

 

[cams]

Possible the original flag was not stored properly by the family and got damaged? Someone then replaced it some years later?

 

[Picton]

With respect, I’d suggest it’s possible that the family story isn’t always correct, and that with the best of intentions stories often get garbled when items are handed down. Especially military-related items passed to or from non-veterans.

My wife’s grandfather passed a few years back, and his large family of non-veterans began inventing myths immediately about all the items he left.

This is why so many folks are adamant that “grandpa’s old .45” was the actual sidearm he carried at Bastogne or wherever. It’s seldom the case.

 

[greencobra]

I have 2 flags, one from my dad and the other from his cousin. neither was draped over the casket, they rested folded on it. my dad passed in a January and went to bourne for burial in the national cemetery. his body went to storage since they couldn't open the ground at the time so the cemetery didn't have his body present at the internment ceremony. I was handed a flag, don't know where it came from. don't know if it was the one from the wake. never asked and never crossed my mind at the time to find out. point of the story is both flags are on a shelf in my gun room and I couldn't tell you which is which. I never unfolded them so I don't even know the sizes. honestly, never knew there was a regulation size until I read grandman's post above. I sometimes think I should donate them to an organization that could use one. I have no clue where they will end up when I die.

 

[76Too]

Nothing to add about the flag, but the aught-six shell casings came from the honor guard at your grandfathers funeral. One casing from each volley of fire included and are thought to represent the phrase Duty, Honor, Country...unless your grandfather was a Marine, then it could have been meant to represent God, Country, Corps.

That's been my understanding of it anyway. I'll tell you what though...blanks make your ears ring just as much as anything else. Stood next to the honor guard at funerals on bugle duty and came home with my ears ringing for a few hours

Spanish American War...now there's a war that history forgets more and more about as time passes. Have you done any research into what his detachment did during the war? I'd be interested in reading about it, personally.

 

[Picton]

Nothing to add about the flag, but the aught-six shell casings came from the honor guard at your grandfathers funeral. One casing from each volley of fire included and are thought to represent the phrase Duty, Honor, Country...unless your grandfather was a Marine, then it could have been meant to represent God, Country, Corps.

That's been my understanding of it anyway. I'll tell you what though...blanks make your ears ring just as much as anything else. Stood next to the honor guard at funerals on bugle duty and came home with my ears ringing for a few hours

Spanish American War...now there's a war that history forgets more and more about as time passes. Have you done any research into what his detachment did during the war? I'd be interested in reading about it, personally.

I always learned the casings represent nothing but the three volleys of the 21 gun salute. There used to be a VERY detailed protocol about how many guns honor what kinds of events, and 21 was a high number.

Modern funerals often have just one rifleman representing seven.

It’s easy enough to find out what the 12th Infantry Regiment did during the War. They captured the Spanish colors at El Caney, in Cuba. Then they went to the Philippines and stayed until 1912. I just found that out using Google, but I ha e no doubt there’s a wealth of info out there. Though maybe not broken down to company level.

 

[76Too]

I don't know what funerals you've seen, but all the ones I've done for Marines there have always been 3, save for one 21 gun salute for a General.

I was asking if he knew any specifics...something a google search wouldn't be able to tell someone. I appreciate your desire to pick apart my response to the thread though.

 

[Nick Leduc]

Delicately I ask: Was your Great Grandfather KIA and returned home in 1960? The Korean War went into treaty in July of 1953. Did he serve there?
Matt

Not KIA. Too old at that point in life.

ok, the obvious. did you count the stars on the other flag? thinking the 2 flags were mixed up over the years, it happens sometime when they get handled and people want to refold them better. sorry, can't contribute more than that.

Yeah, I checked both flags at that point, both 50 star.

An Interment Flag is 5’ x 9-1/2 (regular flag would be 5x8). My father in law was a WWII vet, and the funeral home seems to have used a 6’x10’ flag instead of the proper one. I only noticed because the stars were much larger.

Good info, ill measure them tomorrow!

Possible the original flag was not stored properly by the family and got damaged? Someone then replaced it some years later?

That's what I am assuming.

With respect, I’d suggest it’s possible that the family story isn’t always correct, and that with the best of intentions stories often get garbled when items are handed down. Especially military-related items passed to or from non-veterans.

My wife’s grandfather passed a few years back, and his large family of non-veterans began inventing myths immediately about all the items he left.

This is why so many folks are adamant that “grandpa’s old .45” was the actual sidearm he carried at Bastogne or wherever. It’s seldom the case.

This is the truth right here. No one that I know in my family ever met the man, yet I remember stories about him and the war. None of which can be true. I was told he was part of the Rough Riders with Roosevelt in the Battle of San Juan Hill. A quick google of his regiment tells me they were elsewhere during that battle.....

Spanish American War...now there's a war that history forgets more and more about as time passes. Have you done any research into what his detachment did during the war? I'd be interested in reading about it, personally.

That's all I did today actually. I spent an unhealthy amount of time reading about that war today. I will say that this def peaked my interest and read all about it. Also signed up for ancestry.com and did some digging.

 

[greencobra]

The stars are different.

i mentioned the two flags i have in a post above, i happened to be looking at them today and the stars are different between the two as well, nick. same as yours, one is embroidered stars onto the flag, the other is cloth stars sewn on. the only differences with mine are when issued was date and by who. my dad died in '94 and as i mentioned, there was a military ceremony at bourne and a flag was handed to me. my dads cousin died late '80's, while a vet, no military was involved but a folded flag was placed on his casket per request of family. so...one came from the funeral home, the other govt. issue. my problem is i just don't know which is which. i did not unfold them to catch the manufacturers tag.