Mossberg 500 Tactical, can be sold new by FFL in MA?

jeffC

jeffC

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Can a mossberg 500 tactical be sold new by a MA FFL? I ask because I was told they were illegal. I am regerring to the shotgun with the extended tube, pistol gripped extending tactical stock with the 18.5 inch barrel. If its legal, can you poiint me to the source saying so? Thank you. I know they suck, but Dicks sporting goods pulled them all off the shelf saying theyre illegal, and I dont think this is true.
 
jeffC said:
Can a mossberg 500 tactical be sold new by a MA FFL? I ask because I was told they were illegal. I am regerring to the shotgun with the extended tube, pistol gripped extending tactical stock with the 18.5 inch barrel. If its legal, can you poiint me to the source saying so?
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laws don't say what is LEGAL, they tell you what is ILLEGAL, there's nothing ILLEGAL about it... that makes it legal....
 
jeffC said:
I am regerring to the shotgun with the extended tube.
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How many shells does the extended tube hold?


MGL Chapter 140 said:
“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.
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jasons said:
How many shells does the extended tube hold?
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Less than 10. 7 or 8 maybe.

i know the mag tube isn't the issue. I think they pulled it because it the pistol grip/expanding stock. I know these things can sometimes be issues on rifles, but I thought shotguns were excluded. I just want something to show the dicks manager, proving that these shotguns are legal in MA for them to sell.
 
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jeffC said:
Less than 10. 7 or 8 maybe.
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More than 5?

MGL Chapter 140 said:
“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.
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man, people are F****** idiots who can't read......

you can't skim the MGL and cherry pick words that when put together a certain way you THINK make sense...
you have to read the whole FSCKing thing....

especially the part where pump action shotguns AREN'T COVERED BY 140 Section 121

MGL Chapter 140 said:
“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm;

ROTATING CYLINDER, nothing about TUBULAR MAGAZINE here

or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.
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have an LTC-A? you can have a shotgun that holds as many rounds as you like as long as it's not a semi-auto with a detachable magazine....

A PUMP ACTION SHOT GUN CAN NOT BE AN "ASSAULT WEAPON" BECAUSE IT IS NOT SEMIAUTOMATIC......

and according to the above, it's not even a "large capacity weapon" because it is a pump action, and "shall not" be included in the definition of LCW

don't ask me to prove something is LEGAL, the laws aren't written to tell you what is legal.... only to tell you what is ILLEGAL....

Dick's says it's illegal, DON'T BUY FROM DICK'S they don't know WTF they're talking about....
want to press the issue?

ask the manager to quote what in the MGL MAKES them illegal....
 
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inerlogic said:
man, people are F****** idiots who can't read......
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I agree that it's not an AWB thing. I also agree that the shotgun itself isn't a "large capacity weapon." The magazine tube, if it holds more than 5 shells, is a large capacity feeding device. That in and of itself is illegal regardless of the gun it's attached to (or even if it's not attached to a gun at all.)

Post-ban "large" capacity feeding devices are not legal in MA. Period. The same law that says that you can't buy a post-ban "large" capacity Glock mag says that you can't buy a post-ban "large" capacity shotgun mag tube.
 
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jasons said:
I agree that it's not an AWB thing. I also agree that the shotgun itself isn't a "large capacity weapon." The magazine tube, if it holds more than 5 shells, is a large capacity feeding device. That in and of itself is illegal regardless of the gun it's attached to (or even if it's not attached to a gun at all.)
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In that case then nearly every gun shop in the state sells illegal shotguns. [rofl]

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
In that case then nearly every gun shop in the state sells illegal shotguns. [rofl]

-Mike
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Yep. We all know how well versed dealers are in the MGLs too.


inerlogic said:
especially the part where pump action shotguns AREN'T COVERED BY 140 Section 121
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Where do you see anything that excludes pump shotguns from the entirety of section 121? If that were the case, the "sawed-off shotgun" definition would also not apply to a pump, right?
 
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jasons said:
Yep. We all know how well versed dealers are in the MGLs too.
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My point in bringing this up, is the large capacity tube on a pump thing" is an issue of much contention, likely even among gun lawyers in MA. I know "uber conservative" shops that carry pumps that will hold more than 5 rounds in the tube.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
My point in bringing this up, is the large capacity tube on a pump thing" is an issue of much contention, likely even among gun lawyers in MA. I know "uber conservative" shops that carry pumps that will hold more than 5 rounds in the tube.

-Mike
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I know that it is, but the law is pretty clear on this in my humble non-lawyer opinion. If they meant to except magazine tubes for pump shotguns, they would have done so as they did for .22 mag tubes.
 
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W.E.C said:
are we going to pre-ban pump shotty territory?
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Not to nitpick, but it's not the gun that's in question. It's the mag tube in and of itself. Unless someone can tell me how I'm misreading the definition of "large capacity feeding device." (I've been wrong before, and when I am I admit it.)
 
jasons said:
Not to nitpick, but it's not the gun that's in question. It's the mag tube in and of itself. Unless someone can tell me how I'm misreading the definition of "large capacity feeding device." (I've been wrong before, and when I am I admit it.)
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I see your point, and I'm now thoroughly confused.
the only bright side ti this is my old mossbergs may be going into colt prices[laugh]
 
jasons said:
Not to nitpick, but it's not the gun that's in question. It's the mag tube in and of itself. Unless someone can tell me how I'm misreading the definition of "large capacity feeding device." (I've been wrong before, and when I am I admit it.)
Click to expand...

The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (
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http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121


So the question is can a non-large capacity firearm have a large capacity feeding device? I'm voting no. A pump action shotgun with a tube that holds more than 5 is good to go.
 
Section 121. “Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.
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Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer for purposes of law enforcement; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement.
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yup, shotguns made after sept. '94 that hold more than 5 rounds = illegal.....

FU for making me read through every section of that BS.... i feel much stupider now.....

and i need to go stamp a "1992" on my mag tube......


Rick Roma said:
So the question is can a non-large capacity firearm have a large capacity feeding device? I'm voting no. A pump action shotgun with a tube that holds more than 5 is good to go.
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where's Guida's website, i'm calling that number.....
CRAP! why the hell did Cohen have to be banned?

:)
 
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put a rifled barrel on your shotgun and it's no longer a shotgun either....

“Shotgun”, a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.
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no rifling in your Mosin Nagant? now it's a shotgun......
 
I think this is relevant...

LenS said:
I put this question "on the floor" at Chief Glidden's seminar in May. The answer was that if it is a tube mag (or even a tube extension) that it is NOT a large capacity feeding device. If it is a regular "magazine" and >5 rds fit, it would be a large capacity magazine.

In my MA Gun Law seminar I go into a bit of detail on why this is the case. See below.
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http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...assachusetts?p=1953088&viewfull=1#post1953088
 
drgrant said:
Yes, and with these, every shotgun in MA is illegal, even those that are only supposed to hold 3 shells with the spacer installed. [laugh]

-Mike
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Yep, it's yet another example of a ****tarded MA gun law.
 
Rick Roma said:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

So the question is can a non-large capacity firearm have a large capacity feeding device? I'm voting no. A pump action shotgun with a tube that holds more than 5 is good to go.
Click to expand...

Sure it can. The definition of a "large capacity feeding device" is distinct and separate from the definition for a "large capacity firearm."

Put it this way: if we can agree that an 8 round mag tube on a Mossberg 930 is "large capacity," how does it magically become non "large capacity" if I take it off the 930 and put it on my Mossberg 590a1?
 

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