Motorcycle traffic violation - Cop pulls out gun

[flintoid]

I know you've already been smacked around a little on that comment, but as I re-read it yet again in someone's comment it occurred to me that taking something and throwing it, especially toward the officer, might be a good way to get shot...

At the very least you might cause them to think you were trying to get rid of contraband.

It's just a thought. YMMV. Tossing keys on the ground is a bit too submissive for me. The LEO has the authority to enforce law and order, but it doesn't make him my "master".

(Now if it's a lady officer and she is smokin' hot, we can talk!)

so my internet lingo is poor. I 'toss' my keys over my shoulder. I don't turn around, look the officer dead in the eye, and wing my keys at him.

And how does contraband get away from me and the officer when it is lying in between my bike and his cruiser, where he's likely to walk?? Are keys illegal here in this country?

I'm really just confused about why you guys think this is a terrible idea. Seriously. I've done it before... and I'm still alive, so there goes your theory...

 

[GunGuy]

When in doubt, whip it out...

Feels good out today - I think I will leave it out...

LMAO^

I believe you are right about that!

 

[flintoid]

Are you serious? You're getting pulled over for a traffic violation, not having your door busted in by the Gestapo.

dead serious. And you know why I act as polite as I do? Because I don't want a GD ticket. So if I can make the officers life a little easier, and let him feel a little more at ease with me, then logic and experience tells me that I am less likely to get one.

I am not paranoid and as militant as some of you internet warriors try to come off as. I don't bust a cops balls just because I think it's my right to do so. I willingfully lay my keys down out of respect of the officer (as I've been told it's appreciated several times) because I respect guys doing their job.

*and no, I am not saying I 'bend over' for officers no matter what. If I was getting harassed for no apparent reason I would not be as polite. Perhaps this is where we are mis-communicating. I treat an officer right for doing their job within the bounds of the law. Now if I was pulled over and then beat down for going 5 under? Sure... I would be pissed and I would not respect that. There is a difference.

perhaps you guys don't know how I ride. If I'm getting pulled over, it's more than likely for a very good reason.

 

[namedpipes]

so my internet lingo is poor. I 'toss' my keys over my shoulder. I don't turn around, look the officer dead in the eye, and wing my keys at him.

And how does contraband get away from me and the officer when it is lying in between my bike and his cruiser, where he's likely to walk?? Are keys illegal here in this country?

I'm really just confused about why you guys think this is a terrible idea. Seriously. I've done it before... and I'm still alive, so there goes your theory...

It wasn't poor lingo. I understood exactly what you meant.

It just seems to me (as a non-leo) that an officer that just pulled of a biker, sees the biker take something, shake it and throw it away... you're assuming a lot there. His eyes weren't directed towards his radio at the crucial moment. The lighting is good and nothing blocking his view (like the windshield wiper for instance?). He sees the direction you tossed them. He interprets the action the way you intended. You just making a lot of assumptions on a matter that can be interpreted many different ways.

I ask any LEO here (Half Cocked?) to comment on this question:

Three witnesses observe flintoid turn off his bike, remove the key, shake them in the air and toss them to the ground in the direction of the officer. The officer then takes a statement from the three witnesses. How likely is it that all three statements will be essentially identical?

Flintoid, just because everybody jumped on you doesn't make you WRONG but it should make you THINK it through.

 

[GunGuy]

@Flintoid, I would consider you turning off your bike and taking off your helmet and sunglasses enough of a sign that you aren't taking off. Although your intentions are good, just be calm and respectful. Hands visible and that should be enough for any LEO. Safe riding bro.

 

[flintoid]

Three witnesses observe flintoid turn off his bike, remove the key, shake them in the air and toss them to the ground in the direction of the officer. The officer then takes a statement from the three witnesses. How likely is it that all three statements will be essentially identical?

I think I understand where you are going with this and it does seem like a valid concern. However, I do not right with illegal contraband and for me to be incriminated for something like that, shouldn't the officer actually find something wrong with the situation for me to get into any sort of ill-found trouble?

Flintoid, just because everybody jumped on you doesn't make you WRONG but it should make you THINK it through.

I have. Not only have I talked about it with a LEO friend, but I've been thanked before by an officer in Boston for my courtesy as he handed my keys back to me.

 

[cekim]

@Flintoid, I would consider you turning off your bike and taking off your helmet and sunglasses enough of a sign that you aren't taking off. Although your intentions are good, just be calm and respectful. Hands visible and that should be enough for any LEO. Safe riding bro.

I'd go ahead and give him a tap with the taser anyway...

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

It wasn't poor lingo. I understood exactly what you meant.

It just seems to me (as a non-leo) that an officer that just pulled of a biker, sees the biker take something, shake it and throw it away... you're assuming a lot there. His eyes weren't directed towards his radio at the crucial moment. The lighting is good and nothing blocking his view (like the windshield wiper for instance?). He sees the direction you tossed them. He interprets the action the way you intended. You just making a lot of assumptions on a matter that can be interpreted many different ways.

I ask any LEO here (Half Cocked?) to comment on this question:

Three witnesses observe flintoid turn off his bike, remove the key, shake them in the air and toss them to the ground in the direction of the officer. The officer then takes a statement from the three witnesses. How likely is it that all three statements will be essentially identical?

Flintoid, just because everybody jumped on you doesn't make you WRONG but it should make you THINK it through.

I have to agree, although it's not necessarily wrong, it might get a wrong interpretation under some circumstances. Similar to getting out of your vehicle when you're stopped. If it's not something they aren't expecting they might react to it

 

[flintoid]

I have to agree, although it's not necessarily wrong, it might get a wrong interpretation under some circumstances. Similar to getting out of your vehicle when you're stopped. If it's not something they aren't expecting they might react to it

ok, so you guys do have valid points. I'm going to shut up now.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

ok, so you guys do have valid points. I'm going to shut up now.

It's not like we're trying to prove you wrong, I think it's just that none of us want you getting shot at the next traffic stop

 

[Martlet]

ok, so you guys do have valid points. I'm going to shut up now.

I wasn't saying you are wrong in your actions. I'm simply saying that in my opinion, a traffic stop, particularly one where I'm giving no indication of fleeing, doesn't warrant me throwing my keys on the ground, possibly damaging my alarm remote.

Then again, if I get pulled over it won't be for 100 mph wheelies. It would likely be a minor traffic violation and I will pull over as soon as it is safe after being lit up. Personally, I would assume that makes a difference.

 

[MXD]

I have an external HD monitor attached to my laptop. If you do also, go directly to youtube to watch the clip. Select full HD and watch it in full screen mode so you can see the digital speedo. He hits 129MPH! Just as he is coming around the bus and about to put the wheelie down, he hits 129 MPH.

At that speed, lets assume he passed the cop at 130 about when he went by the bus. He would have been gone in a flash so even though he did slow down to about 80 until he exited the freeway I can TOTALLY understand why the cops thought he was evading. Add to that when the officer was getting out of the car the bike started to back up as if he was going to run again. The gun was NEVER pointed at the rider. I see nothing wrong here.

Its amazing what an aggravating factor it is when you run. The worse your infraction (as it relates to traffic stops), the quicker you should give up. It makes your life much easier. How do I know? Because it happened to a friend of mine with me in the passenger seat. I'm not bragging and I'm not proud but many many years ago I was out with a friend of mine late one night in his twin turbo corvette doing over 150mph down I-95. We passed a cop that was just driving down the freeway in the slow lane. The lights came on just as we passed him and my friend immediately hit the brakes and pulled over. The cop came to the window and the first question he asked........"why did you pull over?" I was in shock hahaha! So my friend just simply said, "I saw your lights and that's what I'm supposed to do"

He ended up getting a huge ticket(s) and he got the car towed because it didn't have DOT tires on it but the cop let us call his dad to come get us. While we were waiting he explained that what we did was an arrestable offense and he could have tarnished my friends record for the rest of his life but because my friend showed him the respect of pulling over he decided to just load him up with traffic violations and make him pay through the nose to get his car back but stopped just short of "criminal".

 

[Eye5600]

Ever been pulled over on the Jersey Pike?

No, but my sister who lives in Jersey had a mechanical breakdown on the Pike some years ago, and the Troopers who stopped behind her initially treated the incident about the way they would have treated the stop of a known armed drug dealer.

Organizations like State Police forces have procedures that are designed to resolve dangerous situations with everyone alive and well. It's their protocol to use these procedures for every stop. Having a well designed procedure is less help if the Trooper doesn't follow it all the time. A lot of people that get stopped, maybe including this motorcycle rider, are on an adrenaline high and may need to be treated fairly forcefully just to keep them from doing something stupid.

 

[drgrant]

No, but my sister who lives in Jersey had a mechanical breakdown on the Pike some years ago, and the Troopers who stopped behind her initially treated the incident about the way they would have treated the stop of a known armed drug dealer.

Given New Jersey's LE and dumb laws, I would be awfully surprised if they don't have a guy in the passenger side point a loaded shotgun at you before you pull over, all the while, shouting "SCHUTZSTAFFEL!!!! PULL OVER! " over the PA system.

I'm only being 50% sarcastic here too, that's the sad part. A friend of mine traveling through NJ once got pulled over "because he turned around in a parking lot". No, I'm not shi**ing you. The LEO said he "thought it was suspicious that someone would turn around there". They should have a sign on NJ border that says "Welcome to New Jersey the armpit of America- ....also hell. " The "tendencies" there make MA look like a bastion of freedom and liberty.

-Mike

 

[cekim]

They should have a sign on NJ border that says "Welcome to New Jersey the armpit of America- ....also hell. " The "tendencies" there make MA look like a bastion of freedom and liberty.

A more helpful sign would be:
"Welcome to NJ. Do not stop for anything. Got a flat? Keep driving. Car break down? Run! Heart-attack behind the wheel? Push through the pain and get to Delaware... You didn't think Delaware could be an improvement over anything did you? Well it is... Have a nice day and yes we know it stinks, FU..."

 

[Teej]

Sorry I just don't get why the gun was pulled if it was just a traffic stop. If you watch the whole video you'll see what is most likely the unmarked car in front of him at the very beginning, in HD if you pause it just as he's passing the bus you'll see the tinted windows of what looks like the unmarked as he flys by. Sure the guy was stupid and hit 129 but that was 15 seconds (at least 1/4 mile probably closer to 1/2 given the speed) before he passes the marked cruiser. From just before the time he sees the marked vehicle he drives at a more normal pace (can't see the speed limit so his speed of 80-85 is relative to the other traffic). Then once he gets off the highway there is a point at which he looks back and you can see the unmarked (in full screen HD you can clearly see there's no light rack nor active grill lights). It looks to me the reason the bike stopped was the traffic/red light at the intersection in front of him not because there was a marked cruiser behind him. So now you have a biker who comes to a stop for an intersection and an unmarked car pulls along side with tinted windows and boxes him in. There are no sirens (would have been nice if the sound was on the full version but in the link from the OP there isn't even a chirp as the cop boxes him in) nor are there any flashing lights in the rear window. I'd be back peddling to. Then the cop jumps out and pulls his gun. Unless there was an out standing warrant I just don't see the need for the gun at that point. My guess is the plain clothes cop saw the wheelie and radioed the marked car and waited for the marked cruiser to catch up before trying for a stop given it appears his car doesn't have any lights. If the stop was for a warrant and he was considered dangerous I would expect the uniformed officer to be getting out of his cruiser with his gun in hand as well. I could be wrong and there was a warrant out for the guy but based on the long video, it seems a little excessive to me but hey no harm no foul.

 

[cekim]

Sorry I just don't get why the gun was pulled if it was just a traffic stop.

130MPH isn't "just a traffic stop"... Have you driven at that speed? It's not "just a little faster"... (disclaimer, I have, but on a closed course legally).

Going twice the speed of everyone around you (when they are already going 50+MPH) is like throwing a grenade on a playground and hoping for the best. You cannot react if someone does not behave as you expect. You can get away with it for a little while so long as you can predict what the people ahead of you are going to do, but if they react unexpectedly, you won't be able to dodge them...

Most likely the consequence would be you splattered all over the highway (a win in this case), but you may not go alone...

I'm not saying I know what the LEO was thinking, but I think it safe to assume they don't know why this guy is going that fast. They don't know he's being an interdouche and making a video. They have to assume the worse and that he's decided to put everyone at risk to "run for it"...

A motorcycle aimed with bad intentions is assault with a deadly weapon. I am more than ready to give the LEO the benefit of the doubt...

Play Stupid Games Win Stupid Prizes - It's what's for dinner...

 

[Martlet]

130MPH isn't "just a traffic stop"...

What is it then? If he was evading, I'd understand. If he was trying to run down police (on a motorcycle?), I would understand. He was speeding and driving recklessly. If he was trying to evade, there was plenty of room for him to do so.

 

[GunGuy]

What is it then? If he was evading, I'd understand. If he was trying to run down police (on a motorcycle?), I would understand. He was speeding and driving recklessly. If he was trying to evade, there was plenty of room for him to do so.

Stirring the pot are we?

Most guys that drive recklessly like that on bikes also think they can get away from the police on the highway. Unfortunately for that idiot he got off a ramp and got stuck by a line of traffic getting onto a main road. Stop trying to be a cynical conspiracy theorist who hates the police. Did you have a bad experience with them yourself? Or do you have no common sense to see that the rider was in the wrong in so many different ways.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

Given New Jersey's LE and dumb laws, I would be awfully surprised if they don't have a guy in the passenger side point a loaded shotgun at you before you pull over, all the while, shouting "SCHUTZSTAFFEL!!!! PULL OVER! " over the PA system.

I'm only being 50% sarcastic here too, that's the sad part. A friend of mine traveling through NJ once got pulled over "because he turned around in a parking lot". No, I'm not shi**ing you. The LEO said he "thought it was suspicious that someone would turn around there". They should have a sign on NJ border that says "Welcome to New Jersey the armpit of America- ....also hell. " The "tendencies" there make MA look like a bastion of freedom and liberty.

-Mike

Speeding on the Garden State parkway or New Jersey turnpike is just about impossible. By the time you get your vehicle into fourth gear, you have to stop and make another "donation" at the endless tollbooths in that state!

 

[Martlet]

Stirring the pot are we?

Most guys that drive recklessly like that on bikes also think they can get away from the police on the highway. Unfortunately for that idiot he got off a ramp and got stuck by a line of traffic getting onto a main road. Stop trying to be a cynical conspiracy theorist who hates the police. Did you have a bad experience with them yourself? Or do you have no common sense to see that the rider was in the wrong in so many different ways.

Here we go again.

"Stirring the pot"
"Hate the police"
"You must have been arrested"

Blah blah blah.

First, do you have ANY studies suggesting that most reckless drivers think they can evade police, or are you making things up?
Second, who cares what MOST people do. He's an individual, and we saw what HE did. You want to start being treated on the basis of MOST people?
Third, he didn't get stuck in a line of traffic. He had a clear shot to escape.

If you have an opinion or an argument, present it. If you'd just like to attack my character, we can do that as well. I rather enjoy it. Let me know.

 

[GunGuy]

Here we go again.

"Stirring the pot"
"Hate the police"
"You must have been arrested"

Blah blah blah.

First, do you have ANY studies suggesting that most reckless drivers think they can evade police, or are you making things up?
Second, who cares what MOST people do. He's an individual, and we saw what HE did. You want to start being treated on the basis of MOST people?
Third, he didn't get stuck in a line of traffic. He had a clear shot to escape.

If you have an opinion or an argument, present it. If you'd just like to attack my character, we can do that as well. I rather enjoy it. Let me know.

Not most reckless drivers, most reckless a-holes on sport bikes on a highway. He is an individual that was blowing down the highway doing wheelies and then saw that he may have gotten pinched, so he tried to get off the highway to evade the police. If you watch both videos in this thread you see it all. He didn't have the running room once he got off the ramp that he had on the highway. It is simple to see. So he decided to make a smart choice and not continue on, doesn't mean that he is not in the wrong anymore. Great thing about our country is that he gets his day in court to fight it if he so chooses.

As for "attacking your character", I am just trying to figure out why you have consistently argued in an attempt to vilify this officer's actions? You are entitled to your opinions, but it just seems like you are overly cynical about this.

 

[Teej]

Sorry I still don't see it. Your anaolgy is wrong, if that was truely the case then Germany would have by far more accidents than any where else in the world as 130 MPH and vehicles going 37 MPH (minimum speed on the autobahn is 60 KPH) coexist all the time. And yes I have driven at speeds in excessive of 130 (the company I work for has an office in Mainz) and I never stated that it was "just a little faster" the only time I used the word little was in conjunction with excessive in reference to the cop drawing down.

 

[Martlet]

Not most reckless drivers, most reckless a-holes on sport bikes on a highway.

Again, do you have studies to back up your claim, or are you making things up?

He didn't have the running room once he got off the ramp that he had on the highway. It is simple to see.

Have you ever even ridden a bike? He was in the dream position for evasion on a motorcycle: exit route potentially to big for a car

As for "attacking your character", I am just trying to figure out why you have consistently argued in an attempt to vilify this officer's actions? You are entitled to your opinions, but it just seems like you are overly cynical about this.

You weren't trying to figure out anything. You made idiotic statements about my character. However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, the answer is simple. I call foul when I see it. Escalating a traffic violation with a firearm is an unnecessary show of force, given the situation as I see it. And that's all I, or you, have to go on. The danger had passed. The motorcyclist had stopped and was making no attempt to flee. Why not draw down on all traffic stops? After all, the potential to flee or use the vehicle as a weapon are just as present.

 

[Teej]

.....He is an individual that was blowing down the highway doing wheelies and then saw that he may have gotten pinched, so he tried to get off the highway to evade the police. If you watch both videos in this thread you see it all....

A guy who is willing to do 130 does not slow down to 85 to evade police. He could have peeled off to the right with the van instead of going straight where the line of cars and the traffic was if he was trying to get away.

 

[Kenny474]

I wish that cop unloaded into the guy, point blank in the face. Then we would have a discussion worth 12 pages.

The rider is an A-Hole, and was treated as such. Trust me, it's standard practice for any stop at that speed to be approached with a gun. I have a lot of friends with stupid fast cars and hopped up rice bikes. You go stupid fast, you get treated as such. I don't even see what the point of arguing is anymore. The Cop did his job, and nobody got hurt. What the F*** is the problem! He didn't hold the guy at gun point, as he had his gun out for what, 5 seconds. Oh my god, get a lawyer. He was an a hole and the cop pulled his gun for 5 seconds. Needs to be a national headline. Get Real.

I hope you can see the sarcasm in my first statement.

 

[MXD]

Sorry I still don't see it. Your anaolgy is wrong, if that was truely the case then Germany would have by far more accidents than any where else in the world as 130 MPH and vehicles going 37 MPH (minimum speed on the autobahn is 60 KPH) coexist all the time.

I am afraid you might be the only one guilty of a bad analogy. Comparing a road where everyone is EXPECTING people to travel in excess of 150mph is far different then a road where everyone is EXPECTING people to be with 10 or 15 mph of the 55mph speed limit.

Go ask anyone in Germany if they have ever done 37mph in the "high speed" lane on the autobahn.

 

[Kenny474]

I am afraid you might be the only one guilty of a bad analogy. Comparing a road where everyone is EXPECTING people to travel in excess of 150mph is far different then a road where everyone is EXPECTING people to be with 10 or 15 mph of the 55mph speed limit.

Go ask anyone in Germany if they have ever done 37mph in the "high speed" lane on the autobahn.

Spot on. On the autobahn it is also illegal to do many things the biker did, like pass on the right.

 

[DukeNukem]

I love it when the cubicle workers monday morning quarterback .

 

[Teej]

I am afraid you might be the only one guilty of a bad analogy. Comparing a road where everyone is EXPECTING people to travel in excess of 150mph is far different then a road where everyone is EXPECTING people to be with 10 or 15 mph of the 55mph speed limit.

Go ask anyone in Germany if they have ever done 37mph in the "high speed" lane on the autobahn.

My point was that cars peacefully coexist at hugely different speeds on an open freeway. A driver on a road in the US is going to expect someone speeding more so than an individual on a playground is going to expect a live grenade.