Murphy and Cornyn seem to have agreed on some New Gun Control...

Picton

Picton

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Just broke on MTP.

They'll announce it shortly, probably before noon. Source was his panelist with the blonde hair.

It'll include incentivizing states to impose red flag laws, enhanced BGC for 18-21 year olds, more money for mental health, more money to harden schools, and some other shit I didn't listen to.

Great.

There are several threads on Uvalde and its effects; we should probably use this one to discuss just this new agreement, more or less.
 
Mental health? I’m good with that.

Hardening schools? Good with that also.

Enhanced BG checks for 18-21? Not sure what that entails, but I don’t really see the need for it.

Red flag laws? I’d be ok with them except for the opportunity for abuse. On face value it makes sense to a point. If my neighbor has been smoking meth all day and has a pistol in his waistband while talking to satan, I’d call the cops before someone got hurt. Yeah the cops might shoot him, but I have no control over that.
 
In God We Trust said:
Mental health? I’m good with that.

Hardening schools? Good with that also.

Enhanced BG checks for 18-21? Not sure what that entails, but I don’t really see the need for it.

Red flag laws? I’d be ok with them except for the opportunity for abuse. On face value it makes sense to a point. If my neighbor has been smoking meth all day and has a pistol in his waistband while talking to satan, I’d call the cops before someone got hurt. Yeah the cops might shoot him, but I have no control over that.
Click to expand...

I think the enhanced BGC would open up juvie records for the check. Something like that.

There's something else in there about the FFL system, but that's the part I wasn't paying attention to.
 
Picton said:
I think the enhanced BGC would open up juvie records for the check. Something like that.

There's something else in there about the FFL system, but that's the part I wasn't paying attention to.
Click to expand...
Juvenile records are already on the table for MA at least. I had to write a letter to my chief explaining a charge I had from 1985 when I was 14 years old. (It was also dismissed since I was not guilty, but the record never goes away.)

I’m not sure what the FBI looks at when the FFL calls in.
 
In God We Trust said:
Juvenile records are already on the table for MA at least. I had to write a letter to my chief explaining a charge I had from 1985 when I was 14 years old. (It was also dismissed since I was not guilty, but the record never goes away.)

I’m not sure what the FBI looks at when the FFL calls in.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is one of those times when I need to remind myself what it was like when I lived out West and down South, and buying/owning guns there was so much easier than here in MA. Granted, that was during the AWB and there was stuff I couldn't get, and NC had its stupid purchase permits, but in general buying a gun was similar to renting a car.

This compromise would have the effect of normalizing more restrictive MA/NY/CA/MD style acquisition and possession guidelines. Which is not going to be popular in the places where I used to buy guns.
 
In God We Trust said:
Mental health? I’m good with that.

Hardening schools? Good with that also.

Enhanced BG checks for 18-21? Not sure what that entails, but I don’t really see the need for it.

Red flag laws? I’d be ok with them except for the opportunity for abuse. On face value it makes sense to a point. If my neighbor has been smoking meth all day and has a pistol in his waistband while talking to satan, I’d call the cops before someone got hurt. Yeah the cops might shoot him, but I have no control over that.
Click to expand...

They're going to include juvenile records in the background checks whereas currently, they're off-limits. I'm okay with that myself. If someone raped someone at 17 years old, that's not something that a blind eye should be turned to just because the assailant was under 18 at the time of the crime.
 
CNN's take. I'm sure they got advanced word, and plenty of time to pluck their copy into shape.

www.cnn.com

Bipartisan group of senators announces agreement on gun control

A bipartisan group of senators announced an agreement on principle for gun safety legislation Sunday, which includes "needed mental health resources, improves school safety and support for students, and helps ensure dangerous criminals and those who are adjudicated as mentally ill can't purchase...
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
Red flag laws are designed to be abused. Once red flag laws have been weaponized against anyone who believes it is not morally repugnant to own guns, fudds who were OK with them now will think differently. Just because something sounds alright in principle does not mean we should not all recognize it is designed to be an inroad against the RKBA.

Not all of us here have just 3-5 years left to live. We are going to have to live this shit for decades. By the time I am on death's door at 75, red flag laws will be tied to the social credit system.
 
Waher said:
The GoPe loves being the Washington Generals to the DNC's Harlem Globetrotters.

Never missing an opportunity to collaborate and or lose, preferably at the same time.
Click to expand...
Cornyn will enjoy his 15 secnds of fame being lauded by the left as a hero.

What absolutely garbage leadership by Mitch.
 
gunskill said:
Red flag laws are designed to be abused. Once red flag laws have been weaponized against anyone who believes it is not morally repugnant to own guns, fudds who were OK with them now will think differently. Just because something sounds alright in principle does not mean we should not all recognize it is designed to be an inroad against the RKBA.

Not all of us here have just 3-5 years left to live. We are going to have to live this shit for decades. By the time I am on death's door at 75, red flag laws will be tied to the social credit system.
Click to expand...
Rex flag laws should be an instant detain (not arrest) by cops, immediately transfer to a hearing WITH their accuser in attendance. It should be decided same day. Gun owner should have the option as to where their firearms go if they lose.
Attorneys- gotta figure that out unless you got one on a retainer that can show up on short notice.
 
Sounds like more bureaucracy,

Several senators last week said they expected one cornerstone of the deal would be legislation sponsored by Sens. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) and Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.) to establish a nationwide network of “community behavioral health clinics.”

U.S. Senate

www.blunt.senate.gov www.blunt.senate.gov

The legislation will expand high-quality mental health and addiction services nationwide by giving every state the opportunity to fully fund the creation of Certified Community Behavioral Health Clinics in their communities as part of health care.
 
ThePreBanMan said:
They're going to include juvenile records in the background checks whereas currently, they're off-limits. I'm okay with that myself. If someone raped someone at 17 years old, that's not something that a blind eye should be turned to just because the assailant was under 18 at the time of the crime.
Click to expand...
It also excludes people for whom the "rehabilitation" and "second chance" aspect of the juvenile system was intended. Commonwealth v. Chardin (MA SJC) established that juvenile records are statutory a disqualfiers - in the case of Chardin in which case this fully rehabilitated adult who went on to earn a PhD and have no adult criminal record was a PP for life in the DPRM.

Problems with how the juvenile issue is handled:
  • A vast majority probably had ineffective assistance of counsel, being told it would "go away" when they reached the age of majority, rather than limit the 2A rights and career options that depend on a clean record.
  • Juveniles are powerless to make their own legal decisions. Think a 14 year old kid can tell the parents paying the bill "No, I do not accept the deal for a conviction with a suspended sentence, I want a full trial - pay that retainer now. An innocent juvenile, in practice, does not even have a choice about taking the deal / copping a plea.
A more reasoned approach would be to allow criminal records of juveniles whose cases were moved to adult court to have those records included, but not those handled by juvenile "closed to the public" proceedings.
 
snax said:
Rex flag laws should be an instant detain (not arrest) by cops, immediately transfer to a hearing WITH their accuser in attendance. It should be decided same day. Gun owner should have the option as to where their firearms go if they lose.
Attorneys- gotta figure that out unless you got one on a retainer that can show up on short notice.
Click to expand...
Problem is setting up a system which does not solve the fatal flaw of giving the judge the choice between putting his/her reputation at risk by denying an order vs. assuring they cannot ever be lambasted for not issuing an order for someone who goes on to do evil.
 
Last edited:
Here is the list of Republicans that have signed on for this "compromise." There are enough to overcome the fillibuster

The group on the release includes Republican Sens. John Cornyn of Texas, Thom Tillis and Richard Burr of North Carolina, Roy Blunt of Missouri, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Susan Collins of Maine, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Rob Portman of Ohio, Mitt Romney of Utah and Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania.
 
How about we stop incentivizing people to have kids out of wedlock and push the father out of the picture. Something tells me if we did that we would have a lot less "juvenile" issues. I also have no issue with spending money to "harden" schools.

I'm all for expanding mental health care but with .gov handling it I am sure it will be a disaster and complete waste of money. As for red flag laws... no.
 
inkdesigner said:
Here is the list of Republicans that have signed on for this "compromise." There are enough to overcome the fillibuster

The group on the release includes Republican Sens. John Cornyn of Texas, Thom Tillis and Richard Burr of North Carolina, Roy Blunt of Missouri, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Susan Collins of Maine, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Rob Portman of Ohio, Mitt Romney of Utah and Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania.
Click to expand...
At this point are these folks even Republicans?
 
Roy Blunt....he's not running again. He's my a**h*** RINO senator...not loved, in fact hated by most southern half of the state conservatives
 
If you're gonna redefine 'adult' as 21 years old and only allow 21 year olds and older the right to bear arms, better apply it to everything. No more poaching high school juniors and seniors to enlist in the military. You lose the overwhelmingly democrat votes of the 18-20 year old first time voting crowd. Also, full ban on porn with actors under 21. Anyone who still has 'barely 18' material goes to the slammer for child porn possession.
 
inkdesigner said:
Here is the list of Republicans that have signed on for this "compromise." There are enough to overcome the fillibuster

The group on the release includes Republican Sens. John Cornyn of Texas, Thom Tillis and Richard Burr of North Carolina, Roy Blunt of Missouri, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Susan Collins of Maine, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Rob Portman of Ohio, Mitt Romney of Utah and Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania.
Click to expand...
Romney already has experience signing gun bans - consistent behavior.
 
Mental health sounds great until you think about how it will 100% for sure be abused and act as a system to DQ undesirable people.

If we could trust those with the keys to the power it'd be a non issue. But obviously they can't be trusted with it. So it's a bad thing at the end.
 

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