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My first handloads (223 Rem with 69 gr BTHP)

92G

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Despite a few decades of shooting and 6 years of saving my brass (thanks Hillary Clinton for convincing me), I finally got into hand loading. The main reason is to learn and be able to develop a load for our 600 - 1000 yard range. My plan is to reload for one of my 223 rifles (Ruger American Predator with 22" barrel) and my Howa - KRG Bravo in 308. Since large rifle primers are unobtainium, the decision to load 223 was made for me! I acquired a rock chucker supreme kit for ~$280 and a bunch of other tools such as dies from local shop (Mace Sports, Mebane NC). I'm still waiting on a Hornady headspace comparator kit which should be helpful to figure out how much shoulder bump is required, assuming I continue to use the FL dies.

My first load was 223 rem with the following:
-mixed once-fired brass, full length sized and trimmed to 1.755”, de-crimped, etc
-CCI #400 primers
-Sierra matchking 69gr BTHP
-Varget powder, charges were 23.5, 24.0, 24.5 and 25.0 grains - Lyman manual lists 26 grains as max charge
-COAL 2.260" - barely fits in STANAG magazine

Today I took the Ruger predator to 100 yard range and was absolutely astounded by the performance. Prior to my handload groups I shot factory Federal GMM (which has the same bullet) that grouped at 0.7" (4 shots). At the end I shot WWB 55 gr FMJ which performed surprisingly well with 1.4" 5-shot group. My handloads were all 5 shot groups and measured from 0.5 - 0.7". Powder charge seemed to have minimal effect on group size. The rifle is wearing a Vortex Viper gen 1 2-10x FFP and a YHM Turbo K. Thankfully my first handloads neither blew off my face or destroyed my YHM can. Unfortunately I have no idea on velocity because I still don't have a chronograph!

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IMG_8485.jpg IMG_8486.jpg IMG_8487.jpg IMG_8488.jpg


Some questions for the rifle handloaders out there:

1. Primer cratering. My primers showed some cratering (see photo) but I observed no other signs of over-pressure and it didn't seem to much correlate with charge weight. It seems some make a big deal of primer cratering and others claim they've seen it for decades without any issues. Does this mean anything to you?

2. Neck sizing. A few guys at my range suggested I switch to neck sizing (instead of full length sizing) to facilitate brass life. Since I'm really only loading for the ruger american 223 rifle it seems like a reasonable proposition to switch to neck sizing. Legit?

3. Chronograph. I need one. My plan was to hold out for a LabRadar but I since they're nowhere to be found I'll go ahead a buy a regular chrono. The caldwell one is available for $100. I used a magnetospeed once (courtesy of a member at Westwood) and was impressed by it. However I want to chrono with suppressor attached which would require the fancy magnetospeed model (not the sport) which is something like $380. For that cost again I'd rather shell out an extra $200 and get a LabRadar.

4. Powders. I have a few lbs of varget but I'm wondering what powders you guys like for 223 and 308. The popular ones all seem impossible to find. There are powders with faster burn rates available such as IMR4198 and some oddballs like Ramshot TAC. Should I muck around with those or just hold off for good stuff like IMR4064, reloader-15, varget, etc.

Appreciate whatever other reloading advice might be shared.
Thanks in advance.
 
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1.760 is max, I think I have my giraud set to 1.750.

Full size only. Get a mic/gauge and only bump the shoulder back as much as you need to. RCBS makes a nice set of gauges.

Varget, 4064, 4895, N140 all work great for both calibers.
 
I think @PatMcD runs 69 grs in some of his loads.
Maybe @EddieCoyle can steer you in a particular direction
I won a box of 69's so I loaded them up for offhand shooting. I used the same load I did for 77's and 80's.
23.2 of 8208
24 of RE15 or Varget

It went exactly where the sights were when I pulled the trigger.

Don't bother using the 69's for anything beyond 200; there are better choices.
 
Congrats on entering the most addictive stage of this hobby.
Look up equipment and reloading forums for info.

1. Nothing excessive, watch for signs of overpressure if primers are too flatten. Do not proceed with hot loads without chrono

2. Full size body only die. Measure necks with bullet seated, if stock die you have sets neck 0.002” smaller than that diameter- no needs to bother. If it is more than 0.003” different- you can get Redding type s die and bushings for a correct neck offset.

3. Do not put chrono on a barrel.

4. Whatever works. Varget works very well.
 
I won a box of 69's so I loaded them up for offhand shooting. I used the same load I did for 77's and 80's.
23.2 of 8208
24 of RE15 or Varget

It went exactly where the sights were when I pulled the trigger.

Don't bother using the 69's for anything beyond 200; there are better choices.
My 20” ar groups 69 SMK at 300 way better than 75 or 77gr.

Beyond 300 and at 1000 - sure. Shooting a .223 at 1000 should be quite some fun.
 
Here is a chrono I use, there are better ones out there for sure, but this one works and has good app on iPhone to keep data, also speaks up measured speed.
Competition Electronics ProChrono DLX Chronograph White Amazon.com

Retest 23.5 and 24.5 to see which one gonna give better ES/SD and then play with seating depth a bit, but 23.5gr looks nice.

My ar15 69smk load is 24.3gr varget, 2740fps, 20” with 1:8 twist.

Also make sure to get StrelokPro app, paid, it is great for creating stored rifles and loads configs in it.
 
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My 20” ar groups 69 SMK at 300 way better than 75 or 77gr.

Beyond 300 and at 1000 - sure. Shooting a .223 at 1000 should be quite some fun.
They may group better at 300, but they don't take the wind as well. NOBODY out at Camp Perry (or anyplace here in New England) would advocate using 69's at 300.
 
They may group better at 300, but they don't take the wind as well. NOBODY out at Camp Perry (or anyplace here in New England) would advocate using 69's at 300.
That is true. I want to play with heavier loads there as well. Do you use SMK for 77/80 or something else?
 
Despite a few decades of shooting and 6 years of saving my brass (thanks Hillary Clinton for convincing me), I finally got into hand loading. The main reason is to learn and be able to develop a load for our 600 - 1000 yard range. My plan is to reload for one of my 223 rifles (Ruger American Predator with 22" barrel) and my Howa - KRG Bravo in 308. Since large rifle primers are unobtainium, the decision to load 223 was made for me! I acquired a rock chucker supreme kit for ~$280 and a bunch of other tools such as dies from local shop (Mace Sports, Mebane NC). I'm still waiting on a Hornady headspace comparator kit which should be helpful to figure out how much shoulder bump is required, assuming I continue to use the FL dies.

My first load was 223 rem with the following:
-mixed once-fired brass, full length sized and trimmed to 1.760", de-crimped, etc
-CCI #400 primers
-Sierra matchking 69gr BTHP
-Varget powder, charges were 23.5, 24.0, 24.5 and 25.0 grains - Lyman manual lists 26 grains as max charge
-COAL 2.260" - barely fits in STANAG magazine

Today I took the Ruger predator to 100 yard range and was absolutely astounded by the performance. Prior to my handload groups I shot factory Federal GMM (which has the same bullet) that grouped at 0.7" (4 shots). At the end I shot WWB 55 gr FMJ which performed surprisingly well with 1.4" 5-shot group. My handloads were all 5 shot groups and measured from 0.5 - 0.7". Powder charge seemed to have minimal effect on group size. The rifle is wearing a Vortex Viper gen 1 2-10x FFP and a YHM Turbo K. Thankfully my first handloads neither blew off my face or destroyed my YHM can. Unfortunately I have no idea on velocity because I still don't have a chronograph!

View attachment 626694View attachment 626695

View attachment 626702View attachment 626701


View attachment 626697View attachment 626698View attachment 626699View attachment 626700


Some questions for the rifle handloaders out there:

1. Primer cratering. My primers showed some cratering (see photo) but I observed no other signs of over-pressure and it didn't seem to much correlate with charge weight. It seems some make a big deal of primer cratering and others claim they've seen it for decades without any issues. Does this mean anything to you?

2. Neck sizing. A few guys at my range suggested I switch to neck sizing (instead of full length sizing) to facilitate brass life. Since I'm really only loading for the ruger american 223 rifle it seems like a reasonable proposition to switch to neck sizing. Legit?

3. Chronograph. I need one. My plan was to hold out for a LabRadar but I since they're nowhere to be found I'll go ahead a buy a regular chrono. The caldwell one is available for $100. I used a magnetospeed once (courtesy of a member at Westwood) and was impressed by it. However I want to chrono with suppressor attached which would require the fancy magnetospeed model (not the sport) which is something like $380. For that cost again I'd rather shell out an extra $200 and get a LabRadar.

4. Powders. I have a few lbs of varget but I'm wondering what powders you guys like for 223 and 308. The popular ones all seem impossible to find. There are powders with faster burn rates available such as IMR4198 and some oddballs like Ramshot TAC. Should I muck around with those or just hold off for good stuff like IMR4064, reloader-15, varget, etc.

Appreciate whatever other reloading advice might be shared.
Thanks in advance.
Nice shootin! 💪🏻👌🏻

I don’t have too much to add since I don’t reload 308 but do reload 223. Have tried H335, TAC, R15, and have a bunch of CFE223 on hand that hasn’t been opened. I’m only shooting out to 120 yards too.

My 30 cal rifles all use IMR-4064 and Nosler 168 custom comp bullets with great success.

I guess the only other thing I’ll add is to make account on the shootingbot website to get email notifications for powder primers etc. I know Paul will say it doesn’t work or it arrives too late 😂 😉 but figured it was worth mentioning in case it works for you.
 
Despite a few decades of shooting and 6 years of saving my brass (thanks Hillary Clinton for convincing me), I finally got into hand loading. The main reason is to learn and be able to develop a load for our 600 - 1000 yard range. My plan is to reload for one of my 223 rifles (Ruger American Predator with 22" barrel) and my Howa - KRG Bravo in 308. Since large rifle primers are unobtainium, the decision to load 223 was made for me! I acquired a rock chucker supreme kit for ~$280 and a bunch of other tools such as dies from local shop (Mace Sports, Mebane NC). I'm still waiting on a Hornady headspace comparator kit which should be helpful to figure out how much shoulder bump is required, assuming I continue to use the FL dies.

My first load was 223 rem with the following:
-mixed once-fired brass, full length sized and trimmed to 1.760", de-crimped, etc
-CCI #400 primers
-Sierra matchking 69gr BTHP
-Varget powder, charges were 23.5, 24.0, 24.5 and 25.0 grains - Lyman manual lists 26 grains as max charge
-COAL 2.260" - barely fits in STANAG magazine

Today I took the Ruger predator to 100 yard range and was absolutely astounded by the performance. Prior to my handload groups I shot factory Federal GMM (which has the same bullet) that grouped at 0.7" (4 shots). At the end I shot WWB 55 gr FMJ which performed surprisingly well with 1.4" 5-shot group. My handloads were all 5 shot groups and measured from 0.5 - 0.7". Powder charge seemed to have minimal effect on group size. The rifle is wearing a Vortex Viper gen 1 2-10x FFP and a YHM Turbo K. Thankfully my first handloads neither blew off my face or destroyed my YHM can. Unfortunately I have no idea on velocity because I still don't have a chronograph!

View attachment 626694View attachment 626695

View attachment 626702View attachment 626701


View attachment 626697View attachment 626698View attachment 626699View attachment 626700


Some questions for the rifle handloaders out there:

1. Primer cratering. My primers showed some cratering (see photo) but I observed no other signs of over-pressure and it didn't seem to much correlate with charge weight. It seems some make a big deal of primer cratering and others claim they've seen it for decades without any issues. Does this mean anything to you?

2. Neck sizing. A few guys at my range suggested I switch to neck sizing (instead of full length sizing) to facilitate brass life. Since I'm really only loading for the ruger american 223 rifle it seems like a reasonable proposition to switch to neck sizing. Legit?

3. Chronograph. I need one. My plan was to hold out for a LabRadar but I since they're nowhere to be found I'll go ahead a buy a regular chrono. The caldwell one is available for $100. I used a magnetospeed once (courtesy of a member at Westwood) and was impressed by it. However I want to chrono with suppressor attached which would require the fancy magnetospeed model (not the sport) which is something like $380. For that cost again I'd rather shell out an extra $200 and get a LabRadar.

4. Powders. I have a few lbs of varget but I'm wondering what powders you guys like for 223 and 308. The popular ones all seem impossible to find. There are powders with faster burn rates available such as IMR4198 and some oddballs like Ramshot TAC. Should I muck around with those or just hold off for good stuff like IMR4064, reloader-15, varget, etc.

Appreciate whatever other reloading advice might be shared.
Thanks in advance.
92G welcome to the party. As time goes on and you gain more knowledge / expirience a few obvious things are going to happen.
1. Your quest for consistent accurate reloads is going to go full retard.
2. The OCD you thought you never had is going to surface.
3. You are going to spend some dough for sure.
4. Probably on the list of the best feelings. Is when you finally find a consistent accurate load and you are in the node.


Now in regards to your questions. Short sweet and simple.
1. Yes you have some mild pressure signs regarding cratering on your primers. I would suggest backing down a 10th of a gr at a time.

2. Full length size all the time every time. There is zero consistency in neck sizing only.

3. Yes a chrono is a must. I have 2 Lab Radars (on the list of some of the best $$ I have spent).

4. While Varget tends to perform very well for .223 and .308 there are some others that do as well.


P.S.
Nice shooting, not shabby at all!!! Your 24.5 of Varget has the best vertical stringing. Consistent vertical stringing is what your what you are after. Oh and suggest annealing your brass every time.
 
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Nice shootin! 💪🏻👌🏻

I guess the only other thing I’ll add is to make account on the shootingbot website to get email notifications for powder primers etc. I know Paul will say it doesn’t work or it arrives too late 😂 😉 but figured it was worth mentioning in case it works for you.
Shootingbot was nice to me lately. :)
 
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That is true. I want to play with heavier loads there as well. Do you use SMK for 77/80 or something else?
I currently use Berger 82's for 600. But Sierra and Nosler 80's never kept my score down. My supply of Bergers will be gone after this year, but I bet my scores won't change when I switch back to the 80's.
I use Nosler 77's for 2 and 300 yards. They're cheap and they'll clean a target. I've used them at 600 before ( a 197-8x comes to mind). I think they are a more accurate bullet than the 80's, but they really require a good knowledge of wind reading. 80's let you be a little sloppy with your mirage reading at 600.
 
Some questions for the rifle handloaders out there:

1. Primer cratering. My primers showed some cratering (see photo) but I observed no other signs of over-pressure and it didn't seem to much correlate with charge weight. It seems some make a big deal of primer cratering and others claim they've seen it for decades without any issues. Does this mean anything to you?
What do the primers look like when you shoot factory ammo? Sometimes cratering has nothing to do with the ammo.
2. Neck sizing. A few guys at my range suggested I switch to neck sizing (instead of full length sizing) to facilitate brass life. Since I'm really only loading for the ruger american 223 rifle it seems like a reasonable proposition to switch to neck sizing. Legit?
NFW. Why do you care about 223 brass life? It's not like it's 340 Weatherby Mag. You'll get better groups full length sizing (really).
3. Chronograph. I need one. My plan was to hold out for a LabRadar but I since they're nowhere to be found I'll go ahead a buy a regular chrono. The caldwell one is available for $100. I used a magnetospeed once (courtesy of a member at Westwood) and was impressed by it. However I want to chrono with suppressor attached which would require the fancy magnetospeed model (not the sport) which is something like $380. For that cost again I'd rather shell out an extra $200 and get a LabRadar.
It can't hurt, but I've worked up a lot of good rifle loads without ever using a chrony. It can save time though.
4. Powders. I have a few lbs of varget but I'm wondering what powders you guys like for 223 and 308. The popular ones all seem impossible to find. There are powders with faster burn rates available such as IMR4198 and some oddballs like Ramshot TAC. Should I muck around with those or just hold off for good stuff like IMR4064, reloader-15, varget, etc.
Those are good. I've had decent success with 4895 (both kinds) and 8208. Leave the 4198 for 7.62x38 and 6.8 SPC, and TAC for 55gr bullets (but my favorite for the 55s is AA2230).

Try it again with same headstamp, same number of times fired brass. That will make a difference.
 
Congrats on entering the most addictive stage of this hobby.
Look up equipment and reloading forums for info.

1. Nothing excessive, watch for signs of overpressure if primers are too flatten. Do not proceed with hot loads without chrono

2. Full size body only die. Measure necks with bullet seated, if stock die you have sets neck 0.002” smaller than that diameter- no needs to bother. If it is more than 0.003” different- you can get Redding type s die and bushings for a correct neck offset.

3. Do not put chrono on a barrel.

4. Whatever works. Varget works very well.
Not to be a dick, but there's some iffy info here...

1. Just for the record, flattened primers are probably the most unreliable pressure sign, (you can have a minimum load flatten a primer and a max load that won't) and a chrono will not necessarily let you know if a load is too hot.

2. Your recommendation is only valid if you measure the inside diameter of the sized case with the expander ball removed (and do it with an ID tube mic). Even if the neck is initially grossly undersized, the expander ball will "fix" it to within 0.002" to 0.003" undersized. I agree with your recommendation on the bushing full-length sizing dies.

3. Why?
 
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They may group better at 300, but they don't take the wind as well. NOBODY out at Camp Perry (or anyplace here in New England) would advocate using 69's at 300.
You have far more Service Rifle/High Power experience than me, but I have to disagree.

Using a 20” barrel, the difference between 69gr TMK and 77gr TMK at 300 yards in 15mph full value wind is less than an inch. I’m sure the best shooters might be able to tell that. But it’s in the wash for me, especially since I’m not going to be misjudging the wind by 15mph. If I misread the wind by 5mph, then the difference is only 0.1 inches between 69 and 77. The extra velocity of the 69gr helps a lot at 300 and in.

As long as someone’s 69gr load groups 1/3 MOA better than their 77gr load at 300, then it makes more sense to go with 69gr.

In fairness, I did switch to 73gr ELDs for 200 and 300 because I could get pretty much the same velocity as 69, grouped the same, and with better BC. So why not. But I wouldn’t say 69gr are bad at 300. There are just other mag-length bullets that are a tiny bit better.

Edit: Caveat that I suppose I wasn’t thinking of 69gr SMK like the OP loaded. That gives you another 3/4” drift with 15mph wind. Still not a bad option if it’s what you have.
 
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Not to be a dick, but there's some iffy info here...

1. Just for the record, flattened primers are probably the most unreliable pressure sign, (you can have a minimum load flatten a primer and a max load that won't) and a chrono will not necessarily let you know if a load is too hot.

2. Your recommendation is only valid if you measure the inside diameter of the sized case with the expander ball removed (and do it with an ID tube mic). Even if the neck is initially grossly undersized, the expander ball will "fix" it to within 0.002" to 0.003" undersized. I agree with your recommendation on the bushing full-length sizing dies.

3. Why?
All valid points, of course. I do not use expander balls and it had to be noted.

As of 3 - I do not want any foreign extra weight on a barrel when I look at my groups during ladder test. And think it is better not to have it, even if side effect on harmonics will be minimal.
 
You have far more Service Rifle/High Power experience than me, but I have to disagree.

Using a 20” barrel, the difference between 69gr TMK and 77gr TMK at 300 yards in 15mph full value wind is less than an inch. I’m sure the best shooters might be able to tell that. But it’s in the wash for me, especially since I’m not going to be misjudging the wind by 15mph. If I misread the wind by 5mph, then the difference is only 0.1 inches between 69 and 77. The extra velocity of the 69gr helps a lot at 300 and in.

As long as someone’s 69gr load groups 1/3 MOA better than their 77gr load at 300, then it makes more sense to go with 69gr.

In fairness, I did switch to 73gr ELDs for 200 and 300 because I could get pretty much the same velocity as 69, grouped the same, and with better BC. So why not. But I wouldn’t say 69gr are bad at 300. There are just other mag-length bullets that are a tiny bit better.

Edit: Caveat that I suppose I wasn’t thinking of 69gr SMK like the OP loaded. That gives you another 3/4” drift with 15mph wind. Still not a bad option if it’s what you have.
I can only add that my rifle hated ELDs completely, it did not work out. No matter what load, it would not go better than a 1.2-1 moa. 69 SMK took 2 range trips to find a good 1/2 moa node.
I am curious to try those 82gr bergers, will see. Pricey, though, compared to 69 SMK.
 
You have far more Service Rifle/High Power experience than me, but I have to disagree.

Using a 20” barrel, the difference between 69gr TMK and 77gr TMK at 300 yards in 15mph full value wind is less than an inch. I’m sure the best shooters might be able to tell that. But it’s in the wash for me, especially since I’m not going to be misjudging the wind by 15mph. If I misread the wind by 5mph, then the difference is only 0.1 inches between 69 and 77. The extra velocity of the 69gr helps a lot at 300 and in.

As long as someone’s 69gr load groups 1/3 MOA better than their 77gr load at 300, then it makes more sense to go with 69gr.

In fairness, I did switch to 73gr ELDs for 200 and 300 because I could get pretty much the same velocity as 69, grouped the same, and with better BC. So why not. But I wouldn’t say 69gr are bad at 300. There are just other mag-length bullets that are a tiny bit better.

Edit: Caveat that I suppose I wasn’t thinking of 69gr SMK like the OP loaded. That gives you another 3/4” drift with 15mph wind. Still not a bad option if it’s what you have.
You are probably right on 69 vs 77 wind drift. The AR15 only really started to take over from the M14 when a heavy bullet was available for it in the 1990's (I think). That "heavy bullet" was the 69 gr hpbtm. That being said, I know of nobody who still uses it except at 200 yards.
 
I can only add that my rifle hated ELDs completely, it did not work out. No matter what load, it would not go better than a 1.2-1 moa. 69 SMK took 2 range trips to find a good 1/2 moa node.
I am curious to try those 82gr bergers, will see. Pricey, though, compared to 69 SMK.
Berger discontinued the 82. They have an 80.5 that is supposed to be the same bc.
 
Berger discontinued the 82. They have an 80.5 that is supposed to be the same bc.
Yep, I just ordered some of that from valley, $38 a box. Will see.
80gr will be at the edge of a 1:8 twist though.
What jump amount do those bergers like?
 
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Yep, I just ordered some of that from valley, $38 a box. Will see.
80gr will be at the edge of a 1:8 twist though.
What jump amount do those bergers like?
I have no idea what they might REALLY like, but I just seat them 10-20 thousands off the lands and keep cranking the handle. They are X-ring accurate.
 
Yep, I just ordered some of that from valley, $38 a box. Will see.
80gr will be at the edge of a 1:8 twist though.
Depends on the 80. 80gr SMK are short enough that 1:8 from a 20” should be able to stabilize them fine as long as your barrel is actually going 1:8.

But an 80gr ELD-M should be stabilized, but not optimally and will suffer from a slightly reduced BC. Even a 1:7.5 is questionable on whether it will experience drag. 1:7 should work though.

Berger 80.5s out of a 1:8 should have the same stability as an ELD-M from a 1:7.5. I’d probably feel better with the Bergers out of a 1:7.5. It’s so close to the edge with 1:8 though, that it could end up being barrel dependent.
 
Berger 80.5s out of a 1:8 should have the same stability as an ELD-M from a 1:7.5. I’d probably feel better with the Bergers out of a 1:7.5. It’s so close to the edge with 1:8 though, that it could end up being barrel dependent.
well, i guess i will find out. i only ordered 4 boxes, so, it will be self-evident pretty much, if it will not.
 
Depends on the 80. 80gr SMK are short enough that 1:8 from a 20” should be able to stabilize them fine as long as your barrel is actually going 1:8.

But an 80gr ELD-M should be stabilized, but not optimally and will suffer from a slightly reduced BC. Even a 1:7.5 is questionable on whether it will experience drag. 1:7 should work though.

Berger 80.5s out of a 1:8 should have the same stability as an ELD-M from a 1:7.5. I’d probably feel better with the Bergers out of a 1:7.5. It’s so close to the edge with 1:8 though, that it could end up being barrel dependent.
well, it is a rather interesting bullet, the 80.5gr - quite a long nose.
i got a ladder loaded with it just now. so, the 69 SMK i did seat at 1.857", to fit the mag - and it performed very well at that seating.
to make this 80.5gr thing to fit in the mag it had to be pushed in way more - all the way to 1.780". overall to load for it was a way more pita than for sierras.

with the load i used to have - 24.3gr varget - the bullet would not seat well - too much crunch. the max it would go down with to the mag length was about 24gr-23.9.
i looked online - some claim loading it for AR15 with 24.5gr varget - not sure how it is done then. unless they feed it by hand, which i would not care to do, not with an ar.

the best load - with some crunch but not too much resistance going down - seems to be around 23.4-23.6gr. 23.2gr does very lite crunch and the die set same way seats it to 1.777".
anyway, will try to shoot it some time next week if weather will be nice. not sure what will or may it be with such a jump, but, will see.
 
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well, it is a rather interesting bullet, the 80.5gr - quite a long nose.
i got a ladder loaded with it just now. so, the 69 SMK i did seat at 1.857", to fit the mag - and it performed very well at that seating.
to make this 80.5gr thing to fit in the mag it had to be pushed in way more - all the way to 1.780". overall to load for it was a way more pita than for sierras.

with the load i used to have - 24.3gr varget - the bullet would not seat well - too much crunch. the max it would go down with to the mag length was about 24gr-23.9.
i looked online - some claim loading it for AR15 with 24.5gr varget - not sure how it is done then. unless they feed it by hand, which i would not care to do, not with an ar.

the best load - with some crunch but not too much resistance going down - seems to be around 23.4-23.6gr. 23.2gr does very lite crunch and the die set same way seats it to 1.777".
anyway, will try to shoot it some time next week if weather will be nice. not sure what will or may it be with such a jump, but, will see.
Oh yeah, I’d always feed an 80gr+ by hand. No mag length 80gr for me.
 
By the time you backed off the powder charge in order to cram an 80 far enough into the case to feed from a magazine, the velocity would be low enough that you'd be better off shooting a 77 full-power. Not to mention that the case mouth would be be beyond the bearing surface and over the ogive.

I know some guys have cut the front of their mags in order to fit their 80-90 handloads in an attempt to find a wind-proof 300 yard load. I don't think they ever had much success.
 
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By the time you backed off the powder charge in order to cram an 80 far enough into the case to feed from a magazine, the velocity would be low enough that you'd be better off shooting a 77 full-power. Not to mention that the case mouth would be be beyond the bearing surface and into the ogive.

I know some guys have cut the front of their mags in order to fit their 80-90 handloads in an attempt to find a wind-proof 300 yard load. I don't think they ever had much success.
Yeah, I do not think it will do much good. I loaded just 20 rounds. On a second thought it really isn’t worth it, I will pull it out tomorrow.

I’ve managed to get some loaded at 24-23.9gr though, which is a max load for 80gr. But, a jump like that - it just seems to be silly.
 
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