National guard and reserves

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tools8288

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I am very seriously considering going into the national guard or army reserves during college. I am leaning tward guard due to the superior benefits and funding for a college student. Does anybody here have any insight that would stear me tward the reserves rather than the guard or vise versa? I am looking into this more for service to my country rather than the money but not having to pay for college is a great thing[smile] .

Thanks,
Tools
 
If one has more benefits than the other than choose which ever one you feel is better. As far as training and deployments are concerned both are bascially the same.
 
The Guard (at least certain componenets) is called up much more for local emergencies than the Reserve is. This could make a difference in the amount of time you could get called away from your civilian job.
 
I don’t know the way it is now, but if you only do Reserve or Guard, you will still have to pay for college. The Guard in Mass use to have free tuition at U. Mass state schools (I’m not sure that they still do or not). It was kind of bogus though. At the time I was in, Tuition was like $800, but the fees were almost double or triple that. The NG doesn’t pay for Fees at the school. You will qualify for the Montgomery GI Bill, but only after you qualify for your MOS. If you decide to go to Basic after HS and then do your AIT the next summer, you can kiss off that GI Bill money your first year. It has been a while since I was in, so it may be different now. I went split option and I hated it. I came back to my unit and every one treated me like a turd because I wasn’t MOS qualified.

Figure out what you want to do in the service. Do you want to do all kinds of high speed low drag stuff or are you just looking for a part time job to help pay for college? A lot of times that you want to do wont be available in the Guard or Reserve in your local area so you will have to make a decision about what you are willing to do. Also don't forget that you have a very good chance of being deployed during your enlistment. You can end up in one of the Stans or someplace worse for a year. Not trying to scare you, just trying to keep it in perspective. It can come as a rude surprise to some that they can’t take that awesome internship after their Junior year because they have a GWOT mission for 18 months to Horn of Africa.

Also don’t rule out branches like Coast Guard or Navy Reserve.

Best of luck.
 
bpm990d said:
I don’t know the way it is now, but if you only do Reserve or Guard, you will still have to pay for college. The Guard in Mass use to have free tuition at U. Mass state schools (I’m not sure that they still do or not). It was kind of bogus though. At the time I was in, Tuition was like $800, but the fees were almost double or triple that....
Click to expand...

Still pretty much the same. The reason for the ridiculous fees is that tuition doesn't go to the colleges, but to the general fund, while fees stay on campus. As state funding failed to keep up with expenses, the colleges all raised fees to make up for it. The result is that a lot of students get screwed. The Guard pays tuition only, as do most employer education reimbursement programs. A while back my wife was considering taking a couple of post grad courses. Both U Mass and Harvard were offering the courses she was interested in, but it turned out that because of the fees, Harvard would have ended up being substantially cheaper for her.

Ken
 
As we told both boys, it is not a matter of IF you will deploy but a matter of WHEN you will deploy.
BPM, with the guard now, before any one leaves for basic AIT they drill at the Cape. It prepares them for basic training and they have a better retention rate in basic. Other states are looking into this.
One son did the split option. he spent last summer doing basic training, came back to finish high school. You do not come back and join your unit now until you are MOS qualified. You do drill at the Cape until you go back for AIT and are MOS qualified.
He goes later this summer to AIT, then an add on school, and comes back in time to deploy with his unit. Just like Alan did. Alan did OSUT. Both boys signed while in school.
We tried to get both boys to look at the guard and to take advantage of some of the jobs available, so they could come out with decent jobs on the outside. Both boys went to a voke school, and their answer is they have that to fall back on. They both went Combat Arms.
Oh, and it isn't going to matter what your MOS, but Alan is a combat engineer and doing MP duties in Iraq right now, and Justin will be an 11B and also going to be doing MP duties.
Good luck on your decision.
 
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It is indeed a tough choice to make.like derek said choose the one with the most benefits that suit you.also realize that no matter what you choose, deployment to the big sand box is highly likely.
 
KMaurer said:
The reason for the ridiculous fees is that tuition doesn't go to the colleges, but to the general fund, while fees stay on campus.
Click to expand...

Now that is an interesting funding model. Almost as interesting as Ralph Nader and his frigging PIRG tax on my bill at UML. I always wanted to get an NRA donation added to everyone’s bill. [pot] I'm not sure if they are still getting away with that.

B
 
Based on benifits I will go guard. They offered me frre tuition and FEES to any mass state school plus a 20,000 dollar signing bonus. I will be sure to get everything on paper. I am looking into MP's beacuse I would like to be a police officer after college. In addition to this they say that there is a program called "college first" where they guarentee that I will not be deployed for my first 2 years of college. I realize deployment is in my future, if I choose this path and I know that going into it.

-Tools
 
tools8288 said:
Based on benifits I will go guard. They offered me frre tuition and FEES to any mass state school plus a 20,000 dollar signing bonus. I will be sure to get everything on paper. I am looking into MP's beacuse I would like to be a police officer after college. In addition to this they say that there is a program called "college first" where they guarentee that I will not be deployed for my first 2 years of college. I realize deployment is in my future, if I choose this path and I know that going into it.

-Tools
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Ummm yeah, keep that happy thought about the college first. You best get it in writing, cause you know what especially going in as an MP you WILL find your self in one sand box or the other.
Martlet here on the board is a recruiter, IM him. I am sure he can set you straight.
Alan finished his training just in time to deploy with his unit, and our other is going to be in the same situation, and yes it is the old saying NEEDS of the Army. Neither boys schooling is for MP, but that is what they are doing.
Good luck. If it's not in your contract you're not going to get it.
 
tools8288 said:
Based on benifits I will go guard. They offered me frre tuition and FEES to any mass state school plus a 20,000 dollar signing bonus. I will be sure to get everything on paper. I am looking into MP's beacuse I would like to be a police officer after college. In addition to this they say that there is a program called "college first" where they guarentee that I will not be deployed for my first 2 years of college. I realize deployment is in my future, if I choose this path and I know that going into it.

-Tools
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If the NG will pony up the money, go with them.

Also I would suggest that if you are interested in Law Enforcement as a career, do something that is complementary to that job. No sense in being a one trick pony. If you were a medic you may find that some departments would be interested in someone that has EMT or Paramedic training. Also being an Air Crewman on a helo might be an interesting combination. If you can get into being a flight Law Enforcement officer you might have a very cool career and possibly avoid some of the crap. I’d look hard at the Coast Guard as well. It is a very well respected organization and they actually do Law Enforcement.

Maybe some of the LE guys on the board can chime in with suggestions.

YMMV.
 
I'll +1 Sue's comments about PM'ing Martlet. He's current on what's what, and seems to be decent and honest. If you feel uncomfortable approaching him, feel welcome to ask me any questions you have. I'm not in Mass , and am not a Recruiter (I'm a Maint Puke), but I am a Technician (Full-Timer, Civil Service for the Guard in VT), and can get you answers, even from Mass.

Be very much forewarned that your odds of going to Southwest Asia are about 100%, regardless of what job you choose. I have to say that, so you are forewarned. If you do join, I applaud your desire to serve, and trust me, you'll earn that bonus, for sure. That's a good thing.

I suggest you choose something you like, and NOT what you plan to do after college. Sounds dumb now, but going in on a weekend and doing what you do during the week gets boring quick.
 
Nickle said:
I suggest you choose something you like, and NOT what you plan to do after college. Sounds dumb now, but going in on a weekend and doing what you do during the week gets boring quick.
Click to expand...

Which is why both boys chose the fields they went into. Alan Combat Engineer and Justin 11B.
 
MrsWildweasel said:
with the guard now, before any one leaves for basic AIT they drill at the Cape. It prepares them for basic training and they have a better retention rate in basic.......

You do not come back and join your unit now until you are MOS qualified. You do drill at the Cape until you go back for AIT and are MOS qualified......

Oh, and it isn't going to matter what your MOS, but Alan is a combat engineer and doing MP duties in Iraq right now, and Justin will be an 11B and also going to be doing MP duties......
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the split option. I was in the Reserves, and I don't think they had any infrastructure to do that type of stuff down on the Cape. I do remember going to some type of pre-basic weekend that was about the biggest waste of time I have ever seen. They also made us go before we went to AIT; after I had been drilling with the unit almost 18 months. I was a little insulted but did as I was ordered.

How did your son like drilling in a non troop unit? You could almost fit in the block of instruction for an Infantry MOS in a years worth of drills, but I bet the Army wouldn’t allow that type of IET for awarding a primary MOS.

The one saving grace of my year in between basic and AIT was that it was a real unit with a wartime mission. Maybe I should say that I was the low guy on the totem pole, and I did get a lot of details, but it kind of bugged me not being “school” trained. (given the chance to do it over again; I would have gone to OSUT and then come back and gone to school in January). I did manage to get a slot through the ROTC detachment to go to Airborne school after I got done with AIT. It was kind of nice to come back with a set of wings and have everyone be jealous.[smile]

Your comment about the MOS not mattering is true. People are being task reorganized on a massive scale. I do think that the Combat Arms units have the potential to have members be focused on fighting; no matter what they are reorganized as. I feel bad for the people in CSS units that are now being told that they are infantry or MPs and ordered to go out on patrol and fight. My guess is that some of the unit members don’t have it in their hearts to be grunts.


Brian
 
I think it's funny that three people basicaly said that if you are interested in Law Enforcement, you should do somthing different than be an MP.

B
 
Most of the "Force Protection" units detailed to be MP's doing convoy escort in Iraq are Field Artillery. FA units are actually better at Convoy Operations than MP's are.
 
BPM, Alan didn't mind going to the cape for drills. When he got back from AIT he was supposed to go back to the cape for one weekend. They tell the other recruits about basic and AIT. He didn't do that because his unit was preparing for deployment.
Justin is going to be in the same situation as Alan was. The drilling they do is sort of like basic. They have PT early in the morning, work on various skills, and it got the boys used to MRE's. That is basically what they ate all weekend.
Their Sgt's acted like DI's down there also. It also gave them an opportunity to talk with some that had already deployed.
 
bpm990d said:
I think it's funny that three people basicaly said that if you are interested in Law Enforcement, you should do somthing different than be an MP.

B
Click to expand...

Only reason why I agree with it is we tried to steer the boys in another direction. Their reasoning is the have their voke school training to fall back on. Neither what to do that from here on out for the rest of their lives as they put it.
Everyone is different. Alan also said where else can he have a job where he can blow things up.
 
something else to think about.

It was my experience while working in crminal justice that police departments do NOT like to hire MP's. This is because the training an MP gets is too far removed from that of a civilian cop. Not to mention that they HATE the God complex MP's have.

All of the police departments I worked with hire 11B ground pounders first, all other MOS's second, and MP's only as a last ditch effort to fill the position.
 
Tank,

Good to hear from you. I forgot if you are home or still in the Sandbox, but stay safe and thanks for your service either way.

I can vouch for your comments!

I worked as an Aux PO at Boston College PD for 8 or 9 years. We worked the dorms (7PM to 3AM, Thurs nights thru Sat nights) and the football games (with 30K+ attendees and tailgate parties with booze before the games). It was sometimes "real fun" dealing with the drunks returning to the dorms the evenings after the football games. We had NO police powers and carried nothing that could be construed as a weapon (initially we were allowed to carry clubs and cuffs, but eventually they took them away too), not even for self defense.

I'd been there about 5-6 years (when the following incident happened) and I had learned the ropes . . . we were there to protect the students from their own stupidity (leaving back doors open to dorms, resulted in a rape that led to us being hired, etc.). We were NOT there as "street cops" to bust heads.

One night I'm partnered up with a newbie who had served as an MP in Korea. I don't know anything further about what he had done since that time (he was probably 40-50 yo at that time). His first comments to me was "these kids are spoiled rotten and need to be taught a lesson"!! This was his first night on the job at BC! Needless to say I was on my toes that night to make sure that he didn't create any trouble for me. He wouldn't listen to anything that I tried to tell him about what our job and authority really was, as he was older than I and had been an MP!

I let the FT BCPD Lt. know that I refused to work with that guy ever again! I don't know what happened to him but I don't think he lasted very long there.

"Real" police work (street cop) is very different from working at a college, the focus is totally different. I can only imagine that the job of an MP is nothing like either of the above!
 
We've hired quite a few that have been or are MP's or Security Police. No one to my knowledge has ever been DQ'ed because of this prior experience. They're hired off the Civil Service list in order.
 
Doesn't matter. Son is a combat engineer and in Iraq doing MP duties. Other son is 11B and going to be doing the same. They just re class you for the mission. Plain and simple they don't have enough mud puppies.
 
One of their favorite kinds of unit to make "Provisional MP's" is Field Artillery. The Army just has way too much Field Artillery.

Funny thing is Tank mentioned to me Monday or Tuesday that Vermont has deployed more troops than Kentucky or a couple of other states. The signifigance is the population of VT ranks 49. Only Wyoming has fewr people. Every major Army Guard unit in VT has done one deployment already, and most if not all of the smaller company sized units have been or will be deployed soon.
 
Neither the Navy Reserve, the Marine Corps Reserve nor Coast Guard Reserve have ever had the programs in place to compete with the NGs for college money. But Tools8288; have you looked at ROTC scholarships at all? IIRC, the Army Reserve had a dual enrollment program where the contracted cadet had tuition, school fees and a stipend paid by the ROTC program, and seperate drill pay as an E-5 in a local Reserve unit.
 
The Coast Guard Reserve has a good program that puts you right in the Home land security. A weekend a month on Atlantic av. checking shipping.
 
Most of the combat arms units are now guard, while reserve units, more and more, are combat support units. This was a deliberate policy that was implimented while I was still in the reserves 10 or 12 years ago.
 
Coyote33 said:
M.O.S. means what?
Click to expand...
Military Occupation Specialty; an Army/AF term IIRC. For the USA/USAF, it is a character code for a particular job or career specialty. Usually a two-digit number followed by a letter: Enlisted Infantry would be 11B?

Navy uses NEC/NOS (Navy Enlisted/Officer Code); a four digit code. A qualified Submarine Auxillaryman would hold a 4245 NEC. Note that this is separate from a Navy "Rate" or "Rating".

USMC uses OCC; another four-digit code, but also uses the term MOS. For example, OCC 1341 is an Engineer Equipment Mechanic. 0311 is a Rifleman.
The first two numbers are called the Occupational Field, or OF. The Navy and Marines seem to share this reference, as Marine Engineers and Seabees (Navy) are both refered to as "OF 13".

Don't know what terms are used by the USCG.

Edited to add links
 
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