Need some clarification and help please.

Cuda444

Cuda444

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Here's the situation:
I've got my eye on a pre-ban (manf. as a complete rifle, full of evil features [bayo lug and birdcage flash hider] between 1988 and 1990) Colt Gov't Model A2 that is for sale in Florida. I've done all the reading I can on this subject to make sure I am within the crazy laws of MA, but it seems some FFL's are not up to speed.

First my question:
Can I buy and legally transfer this rifle from an FFL in Florida, to an FFL here and take possession of it?

I'm worried that I have no readin comprehension skills as I've talked to 3 different FFL's/dealers in my area and 2 out of 3 said "That's illegal... we wont touch that gun"

Here's where I need some advice:
Assuming this is a legit and legal transfer that I am proposing, does anyone have a reccomended FFL in the Central Ma (Worcester) area that will do this transfer without a hassle? You can rule out the shop behind the GOAL office in Northboro, he states it's illegal to bring this gun into the state. I went to the Gun Room, but MAN do I hate that place. They did say that I could have the gun sent to them for the transfer, but they're giving me a hard time about the other guys FFL because it isn't a store front dealer, I believe it's just a citizen with an FFL. I also don't like the idea of supporting a store that talk down to me like I know nothing at all -- I just haven't had good experiences at that place. The third person I talked to is a citizen in MA that has an FFL with no store front (Just like the guy in FL) but he sided with the "You can't bring that into the state" argument.
I'm going to call 4 Seasons tomorrow and see what they have to say on the matter, and while it's a hike, I feel it's worth it for the transfer... Unless anyone can recommend someone closer. (It's about an hour or so drive one way for me.)

Sorry it's so long winded... I think I got all the details.

Help? [rolleyes]
 
Four Seasons is your best bet. Carl knows the laws and won't BS you if it is a provable pre-ban (and he'll tell you straight out if it isn't).

Perhaps Northeast Trading Co (N. Attleboro) or Zero Hour Arms (Easton/W> Bridgewater) but they are both further from you.

As you have found, most dealers don't have a clue what the laws are and they "make it up as they go"!
 
And you only need an FFL here, unless you take a trip to Florida, in which case you only need an FFL there. This whole idea of needing an FFL at both ends is an invention of sellers who are paranoid or dealers too lazy to know the laws that govern their business.

Ken
 
KMaurer said:
And you only need an FFL here, unless you take a trip to Florida, in which case you only need an FFL there. This whole idea of needing an FFL at both ends is an invention of sellers who are paranoid or dealers too lazy to know the laws that govern their business.

Ken
Click to expand...


Good Lord THANK you! That statement describes the loonies at the Gun Room to a tee! How is it that these people can be recognized as an FFL and not know a thing about the business that is their livelihood?[slap]

Four Seasons here I come. Thanks so much everyone![wave] [bow]
 
Cuda,
I also know an FFL in Natick that would tranfer it for you.
His transfer fee is very reasonable.
PM me for his name.
Gary
 
In case anyone is curious as to what type of information I've been given on this topic, this is a verbatim email response I received:

Original Message:
Mr. X,
I've got a deal lined up for a nice pre-ban Colt AR15 in Florida and I'm looking for an FFL that will do the transfer without the hassle I've been receiving from other vendors. Do you know of anyone that would be willing to help me out with the transfer locally?

Response:
Tom,
It is a $5000 fine for an FFL to bring in that gun and sell it to anyone
in Mass. There is a law on the books that makes us different from
Federal laws.
Sorry, but we cannot get handguns or assault rifles in this state.
-----
I dropped it at that. Didn't respond with any type of correction, just a simple 'thank you.' That last line is a riot.
 
Last edited:
Cuda444 said:
Response:
Tom,
It is a $5000 fine for an FFL to bring in that gun and sell it to anyone
in Mass. There is a law on the books that makes us different from
Federal laws.
Sorry, but we cannot get handguns or assault rifles in this state.
-----
I dropped it at that. Didn't respond with any type of correction, just a simple 'thank you.' That last line is a riot.
Click to expand...

Mass IS different from Federal law - the latter expired; ours was mindlessly renewed. That said, the FFL who sent you that e-mail is ignorant of the law.

IF the gun is pre-ban it is legal to own in MA; legal to import into MA and legal to sell in MA; privately or through an FFL.

Note, however, that the mags must ALSO be pre-ban.

Oh - all you need is an LTC/B. Some fools will declare you need an A for a "large capacity" long arm. Some of those fools wear badges......
 
Please tell us who the dealer is, so we can avoid at all costs getting involved with anyone as ignorant as him!
 
The dealer who sent the email does not have a store front and is not listed on lists such as the FFL list on GunBroker.com so I don't feel the community is in danger of dealing with this individual. I'd prefer not to give names as he is a higher up at one of the clubs I frequent and in all actuallity has done a lot for me, the club and the shooting world. He's a great guy (For everything but gun law advice) and he's also a acquaintance outside of shooting.
Two names I WILL give out are TiteGroup Sporting in Northboro and the Gun Room. Mike over in Northboro is a nice guy, I've done a couple deals with him in the past, but when it comes to pre/post ban guns and the AWB, he's obviously quite clueless -- either that or he is just playing it safe.
The Gun Room on the other hand, was immediately willing to accept transfer of the gun, but the overall attitude and level of professionalism turned me off quite quick. First they were unwilling to send their FFL to an individual out of state, they wanted an FFL to FLL transfer. Fine, maybe that's store policy. However, when given the name and address of a citizen FFL holder with no store front, they went into "What are you, an idiot mode?" and started talking down to me, saying "How is this any different from the first address you gave me? It's a residential address." They made it seem like I was trying to pull a fast one on them. I can only work with what I'm given, if the seller says that's his FFL's address, than that's his FFL's address. I've never conversed with the seller prior to a week ago, and I'm more willing to send him the money order for a substantial chunk of change than to trust these baffoons to accept transfer of my gun. I've gone in on 3 separate occassions to get the required paper work in motion and 3 separate times I've left more frustrated than the last time. They just feel slimey. I've washed my hands of them -- For good.

Phew! <rant off> Sorry about that. I'll be calling 2 other places today. One of which being Four Seasons.

Thanks all,
Tom
 
The dealer who sent the email does not have a store front and is not listed on lists such as the FFL list on GunBroker.com so I don't feel the community is in danger of dealing with this individual. I'd prefer not to give names as he is a higher up at one of the clubs I frequent and in all actuallity [sic] has done a lot for me, the club and the shooting world.
Click to expand...

A MASS FFL without a store front operation? How? That's been illegal for years.

My guess is the PO and PD let him use a garage or something separate from his home as the "store" address and he operates from that. I know a present, and now large, dealer who operated that way before getting a full, real, retail location.
 
Scrivener said:
A MASS FFL without a store front operation? How? That's been illegal for years.
Click to expand...

I know of at least two of these in MA. There probably are
more, too. One uses a rented office in a building, the other one has this
building that is in his front yard and not attached to the house. Some of it might be a matter of local politics (eg whoever is signing the paperwork) than anything else. Course the ATF loves to revoke Type 01s for "local law violations" if they exist.

-Mike
 
Cuda444 said:
Phew! <rant off> Sorry about that. I'll be calling 2 other places today. One of which being Four Seasons.
Click to expand...

Carl (at FS) has no problem transferring pre-ban guns as well as ban
compliant guns. Been there done that. Generally painless and
not too expensive. I see folks in his store getting incoming and doing
outgoing transfers all the time.

-Mike
 
He is a mechanic in "real life" and has his own garage. So yeah, store front. When I spoke of store front, I meant one with guns in the window [wink]

Four Seasons is next on my list. Currently I'm conversing with the FFL in Natick that Gary provided me. He's feelin out the situation -- You can tell he was a bit spooked when I mentioned that it had a bayo lug and birdcage flash hider, but he said he would brush up on his preban law for me and let me know. If this falls through, it will have to be Four Seasons. My only reason for not going there first is because of the distance. Working 80 hours a week lately makes it tough to make the hour drive to Woburn within their store hours. If this Natick deal falls through, I'm going straight there.

Scriv, do you have the mass reg talking specifically about why this transfer is legal?
 
Last edited:
drgrant said:
I know of at least two of these in MA. There probably are more, too. One uses a rented office in a building, the other one has this building that is in his front yard and not attached to the house.
Click to expand...

The first is quite obviously a separate operation, both physically and as a matter of zoning; the latter is exactly what I described in my previous post.
 
Cuda444 said:
He is a mechanic in "real life" and has his own garage. So yeah, store front. When I spoke of store front, I meant one with guns in the window [wink]

Four Seasons is next on my list. Currently I'm conversing with the FFL in Natick that Gary provided me. He's feelin out the situation -- You can tell he was a bit spooked when I mentioned that it had a bayo lug and birdcage flash hider, but he said he would brush up on his preban law for me and let me know. If this falls through, it will have to be Four Seasons. My only reason for not going there first is because of the distance. Working 80 hours a week lately makes it tough to make the hour drive to Woburn within their store hours. If this Natick deal falls through, I'm going straight there.

Scriv, do you have the mass reg talking specifically about why this transfer is legal?
Click to expand...

If you have proof from the manuf. that the rifle was made before the
9/13/94 cutoff that's all you really need to get it through any FFL in MA that
has at least a few brain cells. If you need to tell them what the
law is, find another FFL that already knows. It's easier that way. :)

-Mike
 
Cuda444 said:
Also, just for anyone else reading and for future reference. Can anyone provide the actual Mass Reg stating that this type of transfer is in fact legal?
Click to expand...

You will NOT find any MGL that says "it is legal to buy a gun that has . . . " in those kind of words. We just don't write laws that way here.
 
vellnueve said:
The laws will only say that you can't do a particular thing.
Click to expand...

+1... and that doesn't only apply to MA, but a lot of other states
as well. For instance, I believe VT's law is silent on concealed carrying,
and that is why it is legal without a permit.

Laws are generally written to be restrictive and not permissive. You are allowed to do anything not
otherwise restricted.

-Mike
 

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