New restriction on transport of mags?

[pastera]

I'm sorry, but I'm not following you.

Starting at line 1534 we see the exception (grandfathering) to 131m(a)'s prohibition on possession

On line 1535 it starts enumeration the conditions of the exemption - the colon indicates an enumerated list of conditions, each of which is separated by a semicolon.
At 1540 we see "venue; or (v)" indicating that condition (v) is the final exclusion. (v) also has a semicolon indicating it contains further conditions in this particular exemption.
Next in line 1542 we see the first period in the subsection indicating a change - and here is where we see the conditions for exemption from 131m(a)'s prohibition on transfer - heir or devisee (Dealers are allowed to have then and Mass can't regulate what you do with your property outside Mass)

 

[67ray]

The language isn't hard. The punctuation is ambiguous, in my uneducated opinion.

Don't sweat it, it will be what the Court says it is when you get pinched nothing to prepare in advance

 

[pastera]

I'm sorry, but I'm not following you. It seems to me that it could be:

1534 (c) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 only if such possession is:

(i) on private property owned or legally controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device;
(ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent;
(iii) while on the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith for the purpose of lawful repair;
(iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or
(v) while traveling to and from these locations; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L.

In which case the clause "provided,..." only applies to (v).

But it also could be:

1534 (c) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 only if such possession is:

(i) on private property owned or legally controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device;
(ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent;
(iii) while on the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith for the purpose of lawful repair;
(iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or
(v) while traveling to and from these locations;

provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L.

In which case "provided..." applies to all sections.

While I suspect that it only applies to transport, I don't think it is definitively clear. But I am not a lawyer, because my parents were married.

Ahh - the 131C and 131L are transport and storage respectively.
131c only makes sense as applied to (v)
131L is storage so applies to (i) through (v) but is nothing new

 

[M1911]

Don't sweat it, it will be what the Court says it is when you get pinched nothing to prepare in advance

That is exactly my concern.

With any luck we will have moved out of this damn state before this law goes into effect.

 

[M1911]

Ahh - the 131C and 131L are transport and storage respectively.
131c only makes sense as applied to (v)
131L is storage so applies to (i) through (v) but is nothing new

Which is one of the reasons why I think this could be interpreted to mean that it is illegal to store loaded large capacity magazines in your home, even if they are locked up.

 

[pastera]

That is exactly my concern.

With any luck we will have moved out of this damn state before this law goes into effect.

If you look at it from the point of 131C and 131L, then what is required becomes clear.
Are you on private property?
Yes, you can carry or it must be locked up
Are you traveling from a private property to another private property?
Yes, it must be stored unloaded.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

One dealer is selling pre-ban U notch 17 round Glock mags for $200 and 33 round pre-ban Scherers for $460.

I wonder if these prices will hold on the basis of "I'd rather not sell if someone will not pay my price, even though the market disappears on 10/23" or if the prices are lowered as that date approaches. Despite the scarcity, I don't expect buyers to be lining up at those prices - though I do respect the dealer's right to ask whatever he wishes for his product.

 

[M1911]

If you look at it from the point of 131C and 131L, then what is required becomes clear.
Are you on private property?
Yes, you can carry or it must be locked up
Are you traveling from a private property to another private property?
Yes, it must be stored unloaded.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree that the interpretation is clear.

 

[pastera]

Which is one of the reasons why I think this could be interpreted to mean that it is illegal to store loaded large capacity magazines in your home, even if they are locked up.

No

provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with
1542 sections 131C and 131L

131L explicitly states that in your control is not stored.
131C only covers transport

The strictest reading says you must unload and lockup your LCFD to transport

Look at lines 421 through 426 where the same language exists - that section has zero meaning under your reading.

 

[M1911]

No


131L explicitly states that in your control is not stored.
131C only covers transport

The strictest reading says you must unload and lockup your LCFD to transport

Look at lines 421 through 426 where the same language exists - that section has zero meaning under your reading.

I'm sorry, but there is no way I can follow what you are saying unless you get a lot more explicit and quote the sections that explain your interpretation.

 

[pastera]

One dealer is selling pre-ban U notch 17 round Glock mags for $200 and 33 round pre-ban Scherers for $460.

I wonder if these prices will hold on the basis of "I'd rather not sell if someone will not pay my price, even though the market disappears on 10/23" or if the prices are lowered as that date approaches. Despite the scarcity, I don't expect buyers to be lining up at those prices - though I do respect the dealer's right to ask whatever he wishes for his product.

And the fact that there is no actionable ban on personal import (unless you got your license after this goes into effect)

 

[not new guy]

My belt is my private property.

 

[pastera]

I'm sorry, but there is no way I can follow what you are saying unless you get a lot more explicit and quote the sections that explain your interpretation.

I'm on my phone - not going to quote and create a dissertation on the subject.
Read 131C and 131L and show where is says feeding device.
Section 131M (c) says you need to comply with 131C and 131L with respect LCFD but 131C simply doesn't apply.
Neither does 131L.

 

[LuvDog]

No, they are not. Never even saw an asking price at that level.

You're right. It was sarcasm, but have you seen the prices he has right now?

 

[silversquirrel]

My belt is my private property.

Bingo

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You're right. It was sarcasm, but have you seen the prices he has right now?

View attachment 908256

Either there are more suckers that I would have estimated, or the crossouts are designed to give the impression people are actually buying at these prices.

Sort of like retails prices in an ads that no one has ever paid are crossed out and replaced with the so-called sale price.

Ever notice how car dealers never have a sale? It's because of truth in advertising regulations, so they use terms like "Sellathon" or "Sales Event", but never "Sale".

 

[not new guy]

Bingo

Seriously. They want to get wordy and sloppy we should use their sloppy words against them.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

GOAL says:

"Hi cap mags.... Mandatory Storage:
When traveling to and from the “permitted” locations they must be stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in compliance with the storage and transportation laws."

So now hi cap mags (not under direct control) not only have to be unloaded, but must be locked up in the vehicle?
Even for instance 15 round pistol mags?

.

You can’t insert things like “(not under direct control)” into the wording of the law. They must be unloaded and secured in a locked container……. That doesn’t include inserted into your carry firearm. You can’t carry standard capacity magazines once the law goes into effect. You will need to buy some low capacity mag holsters and carry spare mags now if you want the same round count.

 

[CrackPot]

The language isn't hard. The punctuation is ambiguous, in my uneducated opinion.

The series of clauses are delimited by semi colons and a (roman numeral) with the final clause (v) having "; or" indicating it is the last clause of equal standing. The next clause applies to (v). Then for application to EVERYTHING there is a period and a new sentence. It actually is unambiguous but typically annoying for such language.

 

[CrackPot]

One dealer is selling pre-ban U notch 17 round Glock mags for $200 and 33 round pre-ban Scherers for $460.

I wonder if these prices will hold on the basis of "I'd rather not sell if someone will not pay my price, even though the market disappears on 10/23" or if the prices are lowered as that date approaches. Despite the scarcity, I don't expect buyers to be lining up at those prices - though I do respect the dealer's right to ask whatever he wishes for his product.

Ive had people walk into my shop offering to sell me their preban glock mags. They recognize that the value is not what it used to be and were hoping to cash out. I passed... The prices in fact are falling.

 

[Fine Line Firearms]

One dealer is selling pre-ban U notch 17 round Glock mags for $200 and 33 round pre-ban Scherers for $460.

I wonder if these prices will hold on the basis of "I'd rather not sell if someone will not pay my price, even though the market disappears on 10/23" or if the prices are lowered as that date approaches. Despite the scarcity, I don't expect buyers to be lining up at those prices - though I do respect the dealer's right to ask whatever he wishes for his product.

Just looking to make back what I have into them with a small profit for the books.

They were acquired to offer along with our in-house built PCCs. If they don't sell, I'll have them for the personal collection.

 

[pastera]

One issue with 131m(c) is that it calls out 131C and 131L
Neither of these sections were updated to include large capacity feeding devices.
Since they only speak to firearms there isn't any actual way to comply with those sections.
Toss it on the dash and it's as locked up as those sections require.

 

[Tinkermatic]

Here, just read the language yourselves. Its not hard.

For reference:

• subsection (a) is what makes LCFD and ASFs illegal to possess.
• Section 131C is transport
• Section 131L is storage

Nice of you to assume I can read. I sees the wurds but I cants make em sound rite!

 

[paul73]

You're right. It was sarcasm, but have you seen the prices he has right now?

View attachment 908256

$500 for a square notch, what a clown... holy grief.

 

[pastera]

One issue with 131m(c) is that it calls out 131C and 131L
Neither of these sections were updated to include large capacity feeding devices.
Since they only speak to firearms there isn't any actual way to comply with those sections.
Toss it on the dash and it's as locked up as those sections require.