Overheard at the airport

Darksideblues42

Darksideblues42

NES Life Member
NES Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
3,838
Likes
5,578
Location
Clinton, MA
Feedback: 17 / 0 / 0
Was in DC Friday for a customer meeting, while at IAD there were some folks sitting at the bar who were heading out for some hunting in Montana talking about being on the lookout for some fairly niche/oddball older rifles (1900's through early 80's) and one of them told the other "Hey, if you are ever out and see one of these at a shop, buy it, tell me how much, and send to the shop in my town for me to pick up"

Dude next to us at the bar says these guys just conspired to make a straw purchase and drops an ATF badge on the bar.

Is that actually a straw purchase? I mean, you are sending it through the FFL network, not directly changing hands, etc.

I was a bit shocked that an ATF guy would be 6 Jack and Cokes deep on a Friday night at Dulles, but who knows.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
"Hey, if you are ever out and see one of these at a shop, buy it, tell me how much, and send to the shop in my town for me to pick up"

Is that actually a straw purchase? I mean, you are sending it through the FFL network, not directly changing hands, etc.
Click to expand...
"Buy it" is undefined. If "Buy it" means "Purchase it with your name on the 4473 at an FFL shop and then go to another FFL to ship it to me with no 4473 at the other end", you could possibly argue it was. Since he's talking about shipping it to a local FFL, "Buy it" clearly means "Give the guy the money and then have it processed through to a local FFL where the person who wants the gun will fill out the only 4473 involved in the transaction in his own name", so, no, it clearly it is not.

EDIT: Going a bit further, a solid argument can be made against it being a straw purchase even in the first case above. From the ATF website:
"In the United States, federal law prohibits certain individuals from legally purchasing firearms. These restrictions are designed to prevent guns from falling into the hands of those who might pose a danger to themselves or others. A straw purchase is the illegal buying of a gun by an individual, a “straw buyer,” on behalf of such a person."​
In the case given, as the person who wants the gun is not prohibited from buying a firearm, the purchase is not on behalf of a prohibited person and therefore fails the definition in the third sentence. Then again, it doesn't always matter what the law says, it often only matters what the drunk ATF agent at the bar thinks it is at the time and how far he's willing to go to protect his ego once he's sober.
 
Last edited:
Darksideblues42 said:
Was in DC Friday for a customer meeting, while at IAD there were some folks sitting at the bar who were heading out for some hunting in Montana talking about being on the lookout for some fairly niche/oddball older rifles (1900's through early 80's) and one of them told the other "Hey, if you are ever out and see one of these at a shop, buy it, tell me how much, and send to the shop in my town for me to pick up"

Dude next to us at the bar says these guys just conspired to make a straw purchase and drops an ATF badge on the bar.

Is that actually a straw purchase? I mean, you are sending it through the FFL network, not directly changing hands, etc.

I was a bit shocked that an ATF guy would be 6 Jack and Cokes deep on a Friday night at Dulles, but who knows.
Click to expand...
I'm not convinced unless I see proof the guy had a wiffle haircut, 1980 tennis shorts, and Maxwell Smart sunglasses......
 
Toast said:
"Buy it" is undefined. If "Buy it" means "Purchase it with your name on the 4473 at an FFL shop and then go to another FFL to ship it to me with no 4473 at the other end", you could possibly argue it was. Since he's talking about shipping it to a local FFL, "Buy it" clearly means "Give the guy the money and then have it processed through to a local FFL where the person who wants the gun will fill out the only 4473 involved in the transaction in his own name", so, no, it clearly it is not.
Click to expand...
And that is what I thought.

I even thought about it this way, pay for it, 4473 take home, ship to out of state FFL, 4473, money paid to first guy. Probably still not a straw purchase because 4473 at the end of the chain.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
Was in DC Friday for a customer meeting, while at IAD there were some folks sitting at the bar who were heading out for some hunting in Montana talking about being on the lookout for some fairly niche/oddball older rifles (1900's through early 80's) and one of them told the other "Hey, if you are ever out and see one of these at a shop, buy it, tell me how much, and send to the shop in my town for me to pick up"

Dude next to us at the bar says these guys just conspired to make a straw purchase and drops an ATF badge on the bar.

Is that actually a straw purchase? I mean, you are sending it through the FFL network, not directly changing hands, etc.

I was a bit shocked that an ATF guy would be 6 Jack and Cokes deep on a Friday night at Dulles, but who knows.
Click to expand...
How long were you at the bar for?
 
Darksideblues42 said:
About 2 hours. Flight was delayed, bar was next to the gate, I grabbed dinner, had a couple beers and waited.
Click to expand...
The bartender served that dude 6 Jack and cokes in 2 hours? I don’t know what the standard is for serving but that seems like a lot for an airport bar. Maybe he’s there regularly and they know he’s not driving.
 
Dench said:
It needs to go. This stupid vague bullshit is unnecessary.
Click to expand...
in my opinion, if it has to exist, a straw purchase should be a thing if you KNOWINGLY purchase a firearm for someone you KNOW to be prohibited with the INTENT to avoid a background check for the recipient.


This eliminates the "I bought a gun for my brother as a gift" action being a "Straw Purchase"
 
LakeTrout said:
The bartender served that dude 6 Jack and cokes in 2 hours? I don’t know what the standard is for serving but that seems like a lot for an airport bar. Maybe he’s there regularly and they know he’s not driving.
Click to expand...
He sat down, ordered a Jack and Coke, was gone in about 60 seconds, then ordered another, ordered a salad, finished 2nd, got 3rd, salad came, 3rd drink gone, glass of water, 4th Jack and Coke, asked for another water, water came, 4th gone, 5th ordered, water gone, 5th delivered, water replaced, both water and 5th are gone, 6th ordered with a fresh water, both delivered, then the badge drop happened, he finished his 6th and the water, paid the tab, walked across the hall to a flight to Fargo.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
in my opinion, if it has to exist, a straw purchase should be a thing if you KNOWINGLY purchase a firearm for someone you KNOW to be prohibited with the INTENT to avoid a background check for the recipient.


This eliminates the "I bought a gun for my brother as a gift" action being a "Straw Purchase"
Click to expand...

If we ignore that the background checks take away constitutional rights of many people who absolutely should have their constitutional rights, I agree. And I’ll set that aside for this discussion and say that There should be an intent to make a purchase for someone who is prohibited, in order for the action to be illegal.
 
kingfisher said:
A cop who's been drinking shouldn't even be able to make a lawful arrest.
Click to expand...
Wait. There was no transaction.

I can tell all you guys to buy up M60 machine guns, and ship them to my FFL, and all I've done is spewed word salad. Until the actual transaction takes place, no law has been broken.

Is there a conspiracy to commit straw purchases law?
 
Darksideblues42 said:
in my opinion, if it has to exist, a straw purchase should be a thing if you KNOWINGLY purchase a firearm for someone you KNOW to be prohibited with the INTENT to avoid a background check for the recipient.


This eliminates the "I bought a gun for my brother as a gift" action being a "Straw Purchase"
Click to expand...
FWIW some dealers seem to think “I bought it for my brother as a gift” is a straw purchase. Ran into that trying to get a gun for my foreman at the mill of all places. I was just trying to save homeboy a drive since I spotted what he wanted while I was there, not like he couldn’t have driven his ass up there and plunked down his info and money.
 

Similar threads

Gun Friendly eye doctor at NorthShore.
2
Replies
30
Views
748
G4Y4HK
G
Chicopee woman’s son shot several times, fired back at shooter, police say
Replies
12
Views
479
HorizontalHunter
HorizontalHunter
  • Poll Poll
Music at the range: yay or nay?
2 3
Replies
77
Views
1K
polska1957
P
Check out TSUSA @ the Great American Outdoor Show
Replies
0
Views
31
TargetSportsUSA
TargetSportsUSA
Message form Jim Wallace on the NRA Board Elections
Replies
18
Views
581
Palladin
Palladin
Back
Top Bottom