Overheard at the airport

[mu2bdriver]

It's only the smallest of small dick energy Feds that even take their badge out of the leather. You know it's going to be a good show because they just told you they're the dumbest person in the room without opening their mouth.

 

[drgrant]

What about person 1 putting a deposit down to hold a gun for person 2? Nothing gets shipped until person 2 contacts the dealer to complete the purchase.

Not something I would do unless it was 100% cash, no paper trail to the wrong guy, and all parties know how to shut the f*** up.

Other peoples money being involved in your gun buy is a bad idea unless they know how to be quiet.

 

[kevin9]

Not something I would do unless it was 100% cash, no paper trail to the wrong guy, and all parties know how to shut the f*** up.

Other peoples money being involved in your gun buy is a bad idea unless they know how to be quiet.

If I'm reading your response right, it's a gray area.

 

[drgrant]

If I'm reading your response right, it's a gray area.

It's not gray, but if you don't act stupidly you probably won't have to worry about it. A lot of shops might consider it borderline some simply won't care etc. Others would block the whole thing.

 

[pewpewpew]

6 feet (ish) late 40's, probably close to 275-300 Basically built not that different from me, a brick shithouse.

Well no wonder, that's a big boy. Six jack and cokes would have me on the floor, but I'm literally one half that guy's weight.

To be fair - airport drinks are weak AF compared to the dives the locals go to. I've known business professionals who start their morning with more booze than 6 airport drinks. All the bars in Marblehead serve their drinks in pint glasses, with liquor almost to the rim. Splash of mixer.

Getting severely fukked up / blacked out at Maddie's, The Rippah (RIP), your parents' yacht club, etc. is a local coming-of-age tradition it feels like

 

[Masswhole]

If you don't count the ice - yep. Ice, pour to just below the rim, splash of mixer. Truth be told, when I was drinking, I was accidentally served a few full glasses of straight booze - usually bartender got distracted and there was no room for a mixer. There's a reason we tell rookies to be careful in Marblehead bars. One drink is usually enough to get someone absolutely shitfaced

I have fond memories of slipping down the icy steps, hitting the landing railing & flipping over into the adjacent driveway where a snowbank softened the blow. And that was just a couple drinks with dinner lol.

 

[walter62]

I dont hear anyone mention the FFLs involved. Since it's their asses/licenses
on the line, they may/may-not decide to do the transfer or do the transfer the
clean way for the final buyer vs. this 'could be a straw' thing.

 

[VTski4x4]

Well no wonder, that's a big boy. Six jack and cokes would have me on the floor, but I'm literally one half that guy's weight.



Getting severely fukked up / blacked out at Maddie's, The Rippah (RIP), your parents' yacht club, etc. is a local coming-of-age tradition it feels like

It's way too expensive to get f***ed up at a yacht club. You drink the good booze they leave on their boats

Nothing to be proud of, but there's a dark side of MHD. For like 20yrs running we've had the highest reattrition rate to the MA Diversion Program of any city/town in MA.

 

[VTski4x4]

I have fond memories of slipping down the icy steps, hitting the landing railing & flipping over into the adjacent driveway where a snowbank softened the blow. And that was just a couple drinks with dinner lol.

Rookie move. Can't fall down the stairs if you drink downstairs instead of topside!

 

[Masswhole]

Rookie move. Can't fall down the stairs if you drink downstairs instead of topside!

Lol
That’s where I was headed.

 

[drgrant]

How does putting down a deposit to hold gun for said friend factor into this?

Money flow.

Feds don't like the appearances of what's going on. Once the gun is transferred the insinuation is that the person who put up the money is now eventually getting a gun without doing paperwork.

Money flow is a core component of nearly every straw purchase case.

 

[drgrant]

As a side note these conversations are fun when you're behind the counter. The pragmatic thing is to tell the person how to avoid the problem, most people aren't trying to do something nefarious the federal law is just a horrible piece of shit, so we tell them how to avoid the problem. "Hey we can hold that gun for your husband no problem till he stops by tomorrow, unless you want to buy it as a whole GIFT for him" (then the transaction gets gift exemption protection at that point). Wink nod etc.

 

[Darksideblues42]

As a side note these conversations are fun when you're behind the counter. The pragmatic thing is to tell the person how to avoid the problem, most people aren't trying to do something nefarious the federal law is just a horrible piece of shit, so we tell them how to avoid the problem. "Hey we can hold that gun for your husband no problem till he stops by tomorrow, unless you want to buy it as a whole GIFT for him" (then the transaction gets gift exemption protection at that point). Wink nod etc.

Hypothetical:
First Guy finds the rifle, give the shop money + Shipping to send it to the FFL of the second guy.

Still straw purchase?

 

[LakeTrout]

If you don't count the ice - yep. Ice, pour to just below the rim, splash of mixer. Truth be told, when I was drinking, I was accidentally served a few full glasses of straight booze - usually bartender got distracted and there was no room for a mixer. There's a reason we tell rookies to be careful in Marblehead bars. One drink is usually enough to get someone absolutely shitfaced

This is blowing my mind. Wouldn’t that be like 8 shots of alcohol?

 

[VTski4x4]

This is blowing my mind. Wouldn’t that be like 8 shots of alcohol?

It's a lot of booze - let's put it that way. Never order bourbon on the rocks there. You get a full size snifter with a bit of ice, filled to the rim with bourbon. A terrible *or great* way to end a night. There's a reason the "Maddie's Pour" is known worldwide in the sailing community. A glass of wine is filled to the rim - white or red.

 

[drgrant]

To be fair - airport drinks are weak AF compared to the dives the locals go to. I've known business professionals who start their morning with more booze than 6 airport drinks. All the bars in Marblehead serve their drinks in pint glasses, with liquor almost to the rim. Splash of mixer.

DOCKSIDE BARS!


View: https://youtu.be/fw28i991-f4?si=5IhrZKl7mE5cgjx9

 

[LakeTrout]

It's a lot of booze - let's put it that way. Never order bourbon on the rocks there. You get a full size snifter with a bit of ice, filled to the rim with bourbon. A terrible *or great* way to end a night. There's a reason the "Maddie's Pour" is known worldwide in the sailing community. A glass of wine is filled to the rim - white or red.

Christ…this actually sounds like my jam if I could get a designated driver. If this wasn’t in MA I’d be there tomorrow. But I won’t go to MA unless one of my MA friends has died or is getting married. That’s redundant. I won’t go to MA unless one of my MA friends has died.

 

[jkelly1229]

Was in DC Friday for a customer meeting, while at IAD there were some folks sitting at the bar who were heading out for some hunting in Montana talking about being on the lookout for some fairly niche/oddball older rifles (1900's through early 80's) and one of them told the other "Hey, if you are ever out and see one of these at a shop, buy it, tell me how much, and send to the shop in my town for me to pick up"

Dude next to us at the bar says these guys just conspired to make a straw purchase and drops an ATF badge on the bar.

Is that actually a straw purchase? I mean, you are sending it through the FFL network, not directly changing hands, etc.

I was a bit shocked that an ATF guy would be 6 Jack and Cokes deep on a Friday night at Dulles, but who knows.

Your fine. If you're going through an ffl you good.

 

[Drix]

Seeing how the firearm is going to a ffl who will undoubtedly have the final owner fill out a 4473 I don't see how this could possibly be a straw purchase.

The intent of the straw purchase law was to prevent circumventing the law by penalizing people who purchase firearms for prohibited persons- in this case the firearm doesn't appear to be going to a prohibited person, nor does it appear the law is actually being circumvented.

 

[Fixxah]

Maybe you should have mentioned it to the 2 other gentlemen. Funny things happen to badge dropping agents when they're alone.
Just saying.

@SpaceCritter approves.

 

[Fixxah]

That.....
Doesn't ......
Matter.

Ask anyone on NES who has tried to run a group buy on guns without an FFL taking the money.... syreens, feds, grilling. NTOMSW got all of that treatment before he got banned. Thankfully they left him alone.

Just don't ask Snojoker.

 

[theciviliansupply]

Seeing how the firearm is going to a ffl who will undoubtedly have the final owner fill out a 4473 I don't see how this could possibly be a straw purchase.

The intent of the straw purchase law was to prevent circumventing the law by penalizing people who purchase firearms for prohibited persons- in this case the firearm doesn't appear to be going to a prohibited person, nor does it appear the law is actually being circumvented.

It's less to do about the true concept and intent of straw purchasing and more to do with being "in the business" of firearms. If you facilitate a sale for someone, even if it goes through a background check, you are technically in the business of firearms which requires a FFL. Facilitating a sale is one the many activities non-licensees do, and usually innocently enough, that can become problematic. It's always best to buy your gun with your money. Even in the case of gifts, having the gift giver buy a gift card to the shop for the gift receiver is a better option for all parties.

 

[fishgutzy]

Just goes to show how retarded the "straw purchase" law can be applied..

Indeed. If ATF were going full tard mode, they'd start arresting every husband who purchased a firearm for his wife.

 

[rewster]

I didn’t know airports had gay bars, cause that’s the only bar ATF agents would hang out at.

I heard they all do that a lot ! But mainly there all looking to make contact with that gay blade Don (please let me touch it) Lay-Mon !

 

[pastera]

The bartender served that dude 6 Jack and cokes in 2 hours? I don’t know what the standard is for serving but that seems like a lot for an airport bar. Maybe he’s there regularly and they know he’s not driving.

That's light weight - when I was in full drinking mode, 6 in the first hour then at least 4 in the second.

The problem with the straw purchase BS is that it's any purchase that involves 2 people that a prosecutor can convince an ignorant jury or judge is illegal. And there is enough case law to show a ham sandwich can straw purchase.

 

[rogersmithiii]

That.....
Doesn't ......
Matter.

Ask anyone on NES who has tried to run a group buy on guns without an FFL taking the money.... syreens, feds, grilling. NTOMSW got all of that treatment before he got banned. Thankfully they left him alone.

Is discussion a crime? Nothing was bought. Nothing transferred. Nothing changed hands.

 

[42!]

Was in DC Friday for a customer meeting, while at IAD there were some folks sitting at the bar who were heading out for some hunting in Montana talking about being on the lookout for some fairly niche/oddball older rifles (1900's through early 80's) and one of them told the other "Hey, if you are ever out and see one of these at a shop, buy it, tell me how much, and send to the shop in my town for me to pick up"

Dude next to us at the bar says these guys just conspired to make a straw purchase and drops an ATF badge on the bar.

Is that actually a straw purchase? I mean, you are sending it through the FFL network, not directly changing hands, etc.

I was a bit shocked that an ATF guy would be 6 Jack and Cokes deep on a Friday night at Dulles, but who knows.

It's an easy answer if you keep in mind that the crime is NOT a "straw purchase", it lying on a 4473.
If there is a 4473 then yes its a crime, if there is no 4473 then it isn't a crime.

Better to just let the shop and guy know about each other and let them work it out.

 

[M1911]

"Buy it" is undefined. If "Buy it" means "Purchase it with your name on the 4473 at an FFL shop and then go to another FFL to ship it to me with no 4473 at the other end", you could possibly argue it was. Since he's talking about shipping it to a local FFL, "Buy it" clearly means "Give the guy the money and then have it processed through to a local FFL where the person who wants the gun will fill out the only 4473 involved in the transaction in his own name", so, no, it clearly it is not.

EDIT: Going a bit further, a solid argument can be made against it being a straw purchase even in the first case above. From the ATF website:

"In the United States, federal law prohibits certain individuals from legally purchasing firearms. These restrictions are designed to prevent guns from falling into the hands of those who might pose a danger to themselves or others. A straw purchase is the illegal buying of a gun by an individual, a “straw buyer,” on behalf of such a person."​

In the case given, as the person who wants the gun is not prohibited from buying a firearm, the purchase is not on behalf of a prohibited person and therefore fails the definition in the third sentence. Then again, it doesn't always matter what the law says, it often only matters what the drunk ATF agent at the bar thinks it is at the time and how far he's willing to go to protect his ego once he's sober.

People have been convicted of a straw purchase even though the true buyer was not a prohibited person.

 

[42!]

People have been convicted of a straw purchase even though the true buyer was not a prohibited person.

That's because the crime is lying on the 4473, it has nothing to do with the status of the other person.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Is discussion a crime? Nothing was bought. Nothing transferred. Nothing changed hands.

In the described situation, as said in the OP, it can be. "Conspiracy" is often a crime in itself.

Whether it should be is another conversation altogether