Pattern of Brain Damage Is Pervasive in Navy SEALs Who Died by Suicide

Muzzle brakes do not make rifles shoot quieter or flatter, they actually make the gun louder, their purpose is to reduce recoil. Muzzle brakes may look cool but having one on something with the recoil of a 223/5.56 doesn't really make sense.
They can there are certain comps that do a good job of it

Theres some that are a little ridiculous.

And why would you not want every advantage you can get
 
They can there are certain comps that do a good job of it

Theres some that are a little ridiculous.

And why would you not want every advantage you can get

A lot of advantages come with disadvantages. A bigger signature is often the last thing you'd want.
 
A lot of advantages come with disadvantages. A bigger signature is often the last thing you'd want.
Idk maybe im the only person here whos used a non shitty comp lol?

I know there def are breaks that suck...but there are some that reduce noice/muzzle rise/ and gas venting


These style do a really good job
 
Idk maybe im the only person here whos used a non shitty comp lol?

I know there def are breaks that suck...but there are some that reduce noice/muzzle rise/ and gas venting


These style do a really good job

Yeah. Speaking for myself, when firing a pussycat round like 5.56 NATO, the last thing on my mind is the need to mitigate recoil. So I'm not the best person to ask.
 
I experienced this when I was on a farm in Iowa with a guy that owned several Barretts. We ALL learned to stand BEHIND the shooter pretty quickly.

One reason why I've never fired my .50bmg rifle that has a single tank brake with anyone standing to either side. It directs the blast 90 degrees to both sides. I always announce, "fire in the hole".
Standing behind, it's not bad at all.
 
Yeah. Speaking for myself, when firing a pussycat round like 5.56 NATO, the last thing on my mind is the need to mitigate recoil. So I'm not the best person to ask.
Im only 6'3 and 240 its a lot for me to handle

Lol idk i got a pws mk 114 with their proprietary break on it and i have a mk 116 with a silencerco dead air and to round out that day i was shooting a danny d with a stock a2

The pws break was stupid good.

Like 0 muzzle movement between rounds and like 20 decibels quieter

So they exist lol and if war fighting it's my sport cheating to win would be my game so why not use one
 
So they exist lol and if war fighting it's my sport cheating to win would be my game so why not use one

Because, when warfighting, giving away your position is no bueno?

Diff'rent folks, diff'rent strokes. Like I said, there are pros and cons with anything.
 
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Because, when warfighting, giving away your position is no bueno?

Diff'rent strokes, diff'rent strokes. Like I said, there are pros and cons with anything.
Yeah i would say go shoot a couple...this isnt one thats super loud or vents gas out the side like a tanker and disturbs everything around you.

I know what you're picturing and this just doesnt do it.

But hey its the internet we're all experts about everything so what do any of us know
 
Great interview with Sarah Wilkinson about her husband Chad Wilkinson Navy SEAL that took his life in 2018 on the Jocko podcast .
 
Im only 6'3 and 240 its a lot for me to handle

Lol idk i got a pws mk 114 with their proprietary break on it and i have a mk 116 with a silencerco dead air and to round out that day i was shooting a danny d with a stock a2

The pws break was stupid good.

Like 0 muzzle movement between rounds and like 20 decibels quieter

So they exist lol and if war fighting it's my sport cheating to win would be my game so why not use one
Okay. Let's be scientists here.

20 dB quieter where, exactly? At the shooter? At the side of the shooter? Downrange? Measured how?

20 dB is a lot.

For example, Pew Science lists unsuppressed 5.56 at 171 dB, and gets down to 150 dB through the HUXWRX Flow 556K at 1 m to the left of the muzzle. This is just the first can I found on a quick search of their site.

To be clear, your argument is that there's a brake with similar noise reduction, to a purpose-built suppressor. If that's true, 1) why isn't it the most important firearms advancement since Stoner and G-d got together and put the bolt release in line with your left thumb when you insert a mag, and 2) why is it not controlled under the NFA? There's no way it accidentally produces that much reduction, so it must, definitionally, be a "device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm."
 
Okay. Let's be scientists here.

20 dB quieter where, exactly? At the shooter? At the side of the shooter? Downrange? Measured how?

20 dB is a lot.

For example, Pew Science lists unsuppressed 5.56 at 171 dB, and gets down to 150 dB through the HUXWRX Flow 556K at 1 m to the left of the muzzle. This is just the first can I found on a quick search of their site.

To be clear, your argument is that there's a brake with similar noise reduction, to a purpose-built suppressor. If that's true, 1) why isn't it the most important firearms advancement since Stoner and G-d got together and put the bolt release in line with your left thumb when you insert a mag, and 2) why is it not controlled under the NFA? There's no way it accidentally produces that much reduction, so it must, definitionally, be a "device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm."
That was anecdotal it was noticably quieter i dont normally roll around with an audio meter

Have you shot one of these

 
Drove a m113. Loudest vehicle in NATO inventory. Was even a study to attempt to address it.
ETA: WHAT??!! I think the comm helmets we wore helped some with the noise level.

Here is an article on the subject:​

A Secret War, Strange New Wounds, and Silence From the Pentagon - Artillery Units Have Brain Damage and PTSD​

Not surprising. I was an FO, but was driving for the Colonel one time when we stopped by a battery. Sitting outside in his CUCV, everytime the guns were fired I was flinching from the concussion.

Around WWII, IIRC, a lot of the training instructors were collapsing and having nervous breakdowns. I believe the Army found that it had to do with constant, repeated exposure to gunfire, and was part of the reason that they started using hearing protection for training. (I read that a looong time ago, so I don't know if it was true or not, or where I read it).
Luckily we're moving back to NC where I shoot 100% suppressed. Otherwise I might worry haha.
Too late. You're already listing your location as MA/NC ("Manic") so you must have been affected already!
 
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That was anecdotal it was noticably quieter i dont normally roll around with an audio meter

Have you shot one of these

I have not.

Your argument is that this brake has similar behavior to a purpose-built can.

My question was really? and where?

If it's only at the shooter, but not forward nor at his sides, is it still true when fighting indoors? How does it do at breaking up visual signature when viewed from the working end? (Since at least one of the guys you were arguing with were warfighters who've been there and done that, and were talking about how it'll behave in that scenario, it seems reasonable to answer that question.)

If it's really as good as you claim, why isn't it the standard issue? We know our government isn't scared to spend money. Though, really, if it's half as good as you claim, why isn't it controlled under the NFA?
 
I think he was being hyperbolic about the 20db, a 3db drop is supposed to be half as quiet so it is noticeable but nearly as noticeable as a suppressed firearm.
 
I haven't shot THAT many muzzle devices, but the sound and concussion drop using an actual suppressor is so much vastly better than anything you will get with a non-NFA muzzle device. It takes my instant, painful, permanent hearing damage level 12.5" 5.56 SBR down to "almost hearing safe" (to be clear I wear hear pro when using a suppressor on everything except subsonic 22 LR, and I even use it when I can when shooting that). I don't believe there is a non-NFA muzzle device in existence that could do that. Reduce concussion and sound pressure at the shooter a tiny bit? Maybe, but not anywhere near the 20+ dB that my full-size, k-baffle rifle can does.

ETA: I would be willing to bet it is just projecting the sound and concussion downrange, so using a muzzle device like that indoors would not work as well.
That was anecdotal it was noticably quieter i dont normally roll around with an audio meter

Have you shot one of these

 
Perhaps there's something else in play besides firing small arms? Any evidence of this showing up in match competitors, in particular the large caliber competitors? Granted, dinging plates and punching holes in paper isn't that stressful of a scenario LOL but the proximity of others (often w/ brakes) combined with years in the saddle and astronomical round counts for some should be causing similar issues if it's the small arms.
I was thinking this as well, but maybe they don't wear hearing protection while training? Sure, it's probably mandated, but do they?

They probably have a lot of gunfire in the field as well where you don't wear any protection. I wonder if suppressors are an answer, I seem to remember the new M4 replacement pretty much comes with one.

Will losses supply the enemy with suppressors, allowing them to more effectively engage our guys? I guess if they cared, they could apply for a bunch of Form 4's and get ATF approval before engaging our guys if they thought far enough ahead.
 
Some serious levels of retard going on in this thread. First off, a compensator reduces muzzle flip and recoil. No one is saying it’s better than a suppressor at reducing noise signature.

Why would you not just run a suppressor all the time, aside from the whole NFA thing? Because it kills muzzle velocity and therefore range and requires subsonic ammo to really be effective. Why would you run a comp? To reduce recoil and muzzle flip for faster follow up shots with no impact to muzzle velocity and range.

To those saying “but a comp will give away my position”, unless you’re a sniper, it doesn’t work that way. Any sort of small unit combat is about fire and maneuver and achieving/maintaining fire supremacy. If you’re not using cover, you’re doing it wrong. If you’re not teamed up, you’re doing it wrong. Concealment doesn’t work once the firing starts.

Last, I’ve used the PWS comps and they are amazing. I’ve got a few on my rifles currently. also I use the Surefire comps which are very good. Both are better than the A2 birdcages.

This from a former 11B…
 
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Some serious levels of retard going on in this thread. First off, a compensator reduces muzzle flip and recoil. No one is saying it’s better than a suppressor at reducing noise signature.

There was a claim that a compensator reduced noise by like 20 decibels. I was responding to that.

Why would you not just run a suppressor all the time, aside from the whole NFA thing? Because it kills muzzle velocity and therefore range and requires subsonic ammo to really be effective. Why would you run a comp? To reduce recoil and muzzle flip for faster follow up shots with no impact to muzzle velocity and range.

Suppressors reduce muzzle velocity? That's the first I have heard that. Yeah subsonic is way quieter, but there is a literal several order of magnitude drop in sound suppressed vs. unsuppressed even with supersonic range ammo. They are also good at (slightly) reducing felt recoil.
 
There was a claim that a compensator reduced noise by like 20 decibels. I was responding to that.



Suppressors reduce muzzle velocity? That's the first I have heard that. Yeah subsonic is way quieter, but there is a literal several order of magnitude drop in sound suppressed vs. unsuppressed even with supersonic range ammo. They are also good at (slightly) reducing felt recoil.
Yeah, sorry, when using subsonic ammo to reduce signature, the muzzle velocity of the ammo is reduced. That's what I was getting at. Otherwise, you still get the supersonic crack of the rifle round.
 
Yeah, sorry, when using subsonic ammo to reduce signature, the muzzle velocity of the ammo is reduced. That's what I was getting at. Otherwise, you still get the supersonic crack of the rifle round.
I wanted to see what my 308 was like suppressed but still full loaded rounds.

It wasn't something I'd want to do a lot of, but for hunting it would be a lot nicer. Just shows how dumb politicians are when they ban suppressors for hunting. You can blame Hollyweird for this, you have to do some work to get a gun down to almost silent. 300AAC in a bolt action with detuned ammo can get down to air rifle levels of sound, but you are lobbing rounds at 100 yards.
 
I got an AMD65 recently.

I don't want to be ANYWHERE sideways of that MFer when someone shoots it. One steady firefight, on-line with a squad all around me shooting the same weapons system, and every one of us would have ringing ears and dizzy spells once the buzz died down.

Adrenaline can obviously help alleviate the immediate effects of contusions and abrasions, even fractures sometimes; that effect is well-documented. I wonder if there are any similar protective adaptations for brain injuries, though I doubt we'd have evolved that way. Until the Industrial Revolution, concussive noise and blast wasn't really a thing for our species.
 
I got an AMD65 recently.

I don't want to be ANYWHERE sideways of that MFer when someone shoots it. One steady firefight, on-line with a squad all around me shooting the same weapons system, and every one of us would have ringing ears and dizzy spells once the buzz died down.

Adrenaline can obviously help alleviate the immediate effects of contusions and abrasions, even fractures sometimes; that effect is well-documented. I wonder if there are any similar protective adaptations for brain injuries, though I doubt we'd have evolved that way. Until the Industrial Revolution, concussive noise and blast wasn't really a thing for our species.
The same could be said for when in a typical household hallway.

The reflected concussion waves can be just as detrimental as to when standing next to a weapon.

There is a well known firearms trainer who conducts a battlefield pick up / malfunction drill during his carbine classes.

When there is a student who has an offensive muzzle break on their rifle, he makes sure to fire their rifle next to them while they conduct the drill so that they can experience the same effects as their co-students.
 
Yeah, sorry, when using subsonic ammo to reduce signature, the muzzle velocity of the ammo is reduced. That's what I was getting at. Otherwise, you still get the supersonic crack of the rifle round.

So the suppressor isn't reducing the muzzle velocity, it's that you must use subsonic ammo to get the full benefit? That is true, but even with supersonic ammo it makes it waaaay quieter (this is from extensive personal experience). It also makes communication between team members easier when there is a lot of shooting going on (also from personal experience). That is why the Marine Corps has adopted them IIRC. Reducing muzzle flash helps quite a lot when shooting under NODs, mine auto-gate all to hell without a flash suppressor or good rifle can.
 
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