Penalties for not filing an FA10

[FireMedic102]

As we all know here, anytime a firearm is aquired in any form here in this state, an FA10 is mandated to be filled out. This is pretty clear cut when buying a firearm off someone that already has it registered. Now, other people have asked here if they find a dead relative's firearm what the process is, and as mentioned in other threads here, filling out an FA10 and checking "registration" is the proper procedure. But suppose they didn't do this, and just locked the firearm up in their safe. What are the penalties for this? Same situation if a rifle was bought from the CMP, or from a store out of state. When we bring the firearm into the state, we are supposed to register it, but suppose we don't. Disclaimer: I am not in any way condoning this practice, or saying I would break the Mass law by doing any such a thing, just wondering what the punishment is, and how they can really track this. Also, who is to say you didn't fill out an FA10 and it got lost on their end? We all send in our FA10s when we get a new firearm, but I wonder how many get lost in the process.

 

[vellnueve]

A simple search of this forum would get you the answer. An answer that has been stated dozens of times.

Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the executive director of the criminal history systems board the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall for the first offense be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years.

 

[jdubois]

First off, as has been said before, you do not 'register' guns in this state. You register transfers and acquisitions. There are plenty of guns in MA which have no registration paper trail and are perfectly legal.

Now, to your questions, the punishment. It is an arrestable felony and carries $1K-$10K fine and/or 1-10 years in state prison for failure to file an FA-10 when selling a gun. It is a non-arrestable misdemeanor and carries a $500-$1000 fine for failure to file an FA-10 on an out of state acquisition, which becomes an arrestable felony with up to 10 years in prison on a second offence.

As you allude to, the record keeping process for FA-10s is poor, and it would be likely hard to collect decent evidence to prosecute somebody. I have never heard of anybody being charged under C. 140 § 128 or C. 140 § 128B. However, any time you break the law, you do so at your own risk...

 

[Len-2A Training]

As you allude to, the record keeping process for FA-10s is poor, and it would be likely hard to collect decent evidence to prosecute somebody. I have never heard of anybody being charged under C. 140 § 128 or C. 140 § 128B. However, any time you break the law, you do so at your own risk...

I disagree. It's easy (if they want to) to prosecute people for this.

PD comes to confiscate on 209A. They have a list of what CHSB THINKS you own. They find additional guns and ask "where & when did you get this one?". Idiot spouts off that they got it from Uncle Melvin when he moved out of state or died, etc. . . . and the idiot just convicted himself!!

Loose lips sink ships and a very high percentage of people will run their mouths and dig a much deeper hole.

Otherwise, if the person clams up and doesn't offer incriminating information about themselves, I agree with JD, it would be very difficult to prosecute.

 

[jdubois]

Loose lips sink ships and a very high percentage of people will run their mouths and dig a much deeper hole.

Agreed. if you're a blabbermouth, they can convict you of anything.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

So what if I went fishing and dropped one over the side, would I fill out one saying I lost it?

 

[DickWanner]

Transfers and Aquisitions only. If it falls off the side of a boat, or say in the more likely event you sell it directly to an FFL, no FA-10 needs to be filed.

Am I right Jeremy?

 

[FireMedic102]

I think he would have to fill one out for this, and check the "lost" box.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

As we all know here, anytime a firearm is aquired in any form here in this state, an FA10 is mandated to be filled out. This is pretty clear cut when buying a firearm off someone that already has it registered. Now, other people have asked here if they find a dead relative's firearm what the process is, and as mentioned in other threads here, filling out an FA10 and checking "registration" is the proper procedure. But suppose they didn't do this, and just locked the firearm up in their safe. What are the penalties for this? Same situation if a rifle was bought from the CMP, or from a store out of state. When we bring the firearm into the state, we are supposed to register it, but suppose we don't. Disclaimer: I am not in any way condoning this practice, or saying I would break the Mass law by doing any such a thing, just wondering what the punishment is, and how they can really track this. Also, who is to say you didn't fill out an FA10 and it got lost on their end? We all send in our FA10s when we get a new firearm, but I wonder how many get lost in the process.

First of all, in order to prosecute, they would need proof that you didn't file. In the case of FA10, it would be damn near impossible. The law doesn't require them to be sent certified mail and I am sure that plenty have been lost and never entered into the system. You must remember that if you choose to use FA10s, especially on out-of-state purchases, you have given the authorities in this socialist state a complete list of all firearms that you own. If your FID/LTC gets revoked for whatever reason (209A RO, for example) and are forced to surrender your guns, you will have to account for every one of them in court. If they don't know that you have a certain rifle/shotgun because you purchased it out-of-state and never filled out a FA10, you will not be questioned about it. I am not advocating breaking any law, but one must balance the risk of getting caught for violating the FA10 reporting law versus the much greater risk of a RO, especially for married men who own guns. They tend to be on the receiving end of ROs at a much more frequent rate.

 

[jdubois]

Transfers and Aquisitions only. If it falls off the side of a boat, or say in the more likely event you sell it directly to an FFL, no FA-10 needs to be filed.

Am I right Jeremy?

You're right on the direct transfer to FFL part.

I think he would have to fill one out for this, and check the "lost" box.

Correct. C. 140 § 129C states that you must file a report with both the CHSB and the local PD on the loss or theft of any gun. You can use the FA-10 form to do so, by checking the loss box and filling out the gun and "buyer" info.

 

[jdubois]

I am not advocating breaking any law

Yes, you are. Please don't do that here.

 

[KMaurer]

Excuse me, but I seem to have missed the part where he actually advocating any law. I saw a reasonably accurate assessment of the pros and cons of following the law, but no recommendation as to what anyone should do. That sort of thing happens all the time here. Saying, for example, that there's no way to prove that a particular large cap magazine is pre or post ban so don't worry about it isn't advocating violating the law. Neither is pointing out the disadvantages of having filed an FA10 on a firearm advocating that one not file when required.

Ken

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

Yes, you are. Please don't do that here.

Open your eyes and read the post before you spout off. I specified that I did not advocate breaking any law. You don't even have to file an FA10 if you buy the rifle/shotgun out of state and keep it out of state. A friend who hunts does just that. He is a MA resident but his hunting rifle stays in his vacation home in ME.

 

[jdubois]

Excuse me, but I seem to have missed the part where he actually advocating any law.

Here:

You must remember that if you choose to use FA10s, especially on out-of-state purchases [...]

It is not a choice, it is a legal requirement. Suggesting that usage of FA-10s is optional is advocating breaking the law.

You don't even have to file an FA10 if you buy the rifle/shotgun out of state and keep it out of state.

Quite right, and indeed you shouldn't file an FA-10 in that situation.

 

[namedpipes]

Is there a statute of limitations on failing to file the FA-10?

Say Uncle Marty gave you the shotgun 10+ years ago and you were supposed to do it THEN?

 

[jdubois]

Is there a statute of limitations on failing to file the FA-10?

Generally, it will be 6 years (C. 277 § 63).

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

Here:



It is not a choice, it is a legal requirement. Suggesting that usage of FA-10s is optional is advocating breaking the law.



Quite right, and indeed you shouldn't file an FA-10 in that situation.

I did not suggest that the use of FA10s are optional. I do advocate not keeping all of one's eggs in one basket, though. Many MA residents keep guns out of state. My boss lives in NH and he does the same thing. He keeps a hunting rifle at his sister's place in upstate NY. Other MA residents do the same thing to avoid the hassles of transporting them around. If you purchase a rifle/shotgun in NH or another state and keep it there, you will not have to worry about confiscation when the local PD shows up at the door with a "not suitable" letter from the CLEO or, worse yet, a 209A RO. If you want the government to have a complete list of everything that you own and to keep the whole collection in your residence, by all means do so. If you find yourself on the receiving end of a confiscation action, you will lose them all in one fell swoop. I am sure that the Dowd extortion warehouse will be happy to store them for you.

 

[jdubois]

do advocate not keeping all of one's eggs in one basket, though. Many MA residents keep guns out of state.

I apologize for the accusation, what you were suggesting was not clear.

 

[drgrant]

or, worse yet, a 209A RO

It should be noted that even constructively possessing a gun while under a 209A order would be a federal felony via the lautenberg amendment. So while you may stop confiscation, you can't touch that gun or constructively possess it while the order is in effect. So that shotgun that's at your bother's cabin in maine or wherever, he would have to lock it up in a container that you cannot access when you come to visit, for you to stay legal, because people with DV RO's are prohibited persons as long as the RO is active.

-Mike

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

I apologize for the accusation, what you were suggesting was not clear.

Apology accepted. I should have been much more specific and/or cited actual examples of what I meant in my first post.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

It should be noted that even constructively possessing a gun while under a 209A order would be a federal felony via the lautenberg amendment. So while you may stop confiscation, you can't touch that gun or constructively possess it while the order is in effect. So that shotgun that's at your bother's cabin in maine or wherever, he would have to lock it up in a container that you cannot access when you come to visit, for you to stay legal, because people with DV RO's are prohibited persons as long as the RO is active.

-Mike

Friends and co-workers (including the boss) have told me that an even bigger problem is the PITA factor of having to lug them around. Boss does his hunting in upstate NY, so he keeps a rifle at his sister's place, along with the clothes and boots that he uses in the field. Less stuff to tote around.

 

[drgrant]

Friends and co-workers (including the boss) have told me that an even bigger problem is the PITA factor of having to lug them around. Boss does his hunting in upstate NY, so he keeps a rifle at his sister's place, along with the clothes and boots that he uses in the field. Less stuff to tote around.

If they're flying there, I can see the point.

If they're driving up there, then they're simply too lazy to put stuff in their car.

-Mike

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

If they're flying there, I can see the point.

If they're driving up there, then they're simply too lazy to put stuff in their car.

-Mike

Maybe. But I always remember two rules. Rule #1, the boss is always right. Rule #2, if the boss is wrong, refer back to Rule #1.

 

[bbersani]

I'm one of those guys that managed to get the FA10 that has no instructions, and I'm in the following situation -

I bought two pistols in from a private owner in Florida (where there is NO requirement for registration or a bill of sale). I want to be a law-abiding citizen, and fill out and submit an FA10 for each. However, the guy in Florida is not subject to Mass Law -

So - what do I do? partially fill out the form with my info and the weapon info and check "registration"?

 

[drgrant]

I'm one of those guys that managed to get the FA10 that has no instructions, and I'm in the following situation -

I bought two pistols in from a private owner in Florida (where there is NO requirement for registration or a bill of sale). I want to be a law-abiding citizen, and fill out and submit an FA10 for each. However, the guy in Florida is not subject to Mass Law -

So - what do I do? partially fill out the form with my info and the weapon info and check "registration"?

I'm guessing you were a legal resident in florida when this transaction occurred? Otherwise you just violated federal law. (Fed law bars direct handgun sales between
two individuals that are residents of a different state. )

In any event, if you later brought the guns back into MA, you just fill out an FA-10 with "register" checked off and the relevant info.

-Mike

 

[Lank]

Does anyone know if the FA-10 will be part of H. 2259?

 

[richc]

So... if I read this correctly... over time I buy ten guns here in MA. The transfer is legally registered and the CHSB has them in the system.

I need some cash so I sell them to an FFL. There is no record of the transfer to the FFL. The FFL sells them to someone out of state, so the CHSB has absolutely no record of future ownership of these firearms. Their records indicate that I still own them.

Did I miss anything, or is this possible. Under this scenario, should the police show up at my door with an order to collect my firearms, I may no longer be in possession of them. Yet the CHSB's records will show that I have ten of them, making LE very suspicious at the least?

This could be a frightening situation for an owner.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

So... if I read this correctly... over time I buy ten guns here in MA. The transfer is legally registered and the CHSB has them in the system.

I need some cash so I sell them to an FFL. There is no record of the transfer to the FFL. The FFL sells them to someone out of state, so the CHSB has absolutely no record of future ownership of these firearms. Their records indicate that I still own them.

Did I miss anything, or is this possible. Under this scenario, should the police show up at my door with an order to collect my firearms, I may no longer be in possession of them. Yet the CHSB's records will show that I have ten of them, making LE very suspicious at the least?

This could be a frightening situation for an owner.

Thanks,

Rich

Relax. They will only confiscate what they can find. Let them be suspicious. You have the right to remain silent. Refuse to answer their questions and keep your mouth shut! Such a scenario is the reason why I am a firm believer in not keeping all of one's eggs in one basket. If you have a large collection, without fail keep some of them (especially family heirlooms or other guns with great sentimental value) out of state. This way, you will not lose them all in a single confiscation action.

 

[drgrant]

So... if I read this correctly... over time I buy ten guns here in MA. The transfer is legally registered and the CHSB has them in the system.

I need some cash so I sell them to an FFL. There is no record of the transfer to the FFL. The FFL sells them to someone out of state, so the CHSB has absolutely no record of future ownership of these firearms. Their records indicate that I still own them.

Did I miss anything, or is this possible. Under this scenario, should the police show up at my door with an order to collect my firearms, I may no longer be in possession of them. Yet the CHSB's records will show that I have ten of them, making LE very suspicious at the least?

This could be a frightening situation for an owner.

Thanks,

Rich

Yes Rich... that's the way the system works. If the guns are resold in MA, the system may pick them up again at some point, but when selling to a dealer there are no guarantees. Even if the guns were all resold in MA your name will still be attached to them in CHSB's database- those entries never go away.

The only way to protect your behind is to keep receipts you got from dealers, really, but even then I don't worry about it that much. The system is what it is.

-Mike

 

[richc]

The only way to protect your behind is to keep receipts you got from dealers, really, but even then I don't worry about it that much. The system is what it is.

-Mike

Thanks, Mike. FYI I would imagine that any competent litigator, with the tracking system the way it is, could make mincemeat out of any records on what I own. There are just too many very common ways in which the records of the CHSB could and would be very inaccurate.

And to be clear, I have nothing to hide. I am not anticipating anything. I am not guilty of any wrongdoing. I just a computer guy that deals with systems all day, and has to look at data flows and fringe cases.

And regarding the advice to say nothing. A few years back I golfed regularly with a state trooper. Good guy, and funny as hell. He used to tell everyone at the course don't say anything to a police officer. No good can come of it. Then he'd tell us stories of the nutjobs he dealt with and the stuff they would say... just unbelievable. Truth is stranger than fiction...

As EC says... SSS...



Rich