Pistol and Revolver License Requirements - Town Overstepping Bounds?!

[SubieGuy4]

I have a friend who lives in Jaffrey. She just went to the PD and got her application form. It is not the form I got in Rindge 18 months ago and it requires information that I understood to be unlawful to request in the process of applying for a P&R.

It is requiring 3 references, occupation, employer information, and what really sets me off... A 'reason to make application to carry a pistol in New Hampshire.' When I applied I clearly remember researching the process and reading that if your town required any of this nonsense that you should refuse and insist that the correct forms and process be used. Has the form changed? I definitely didn't need references or anything like that and I certainly didn't need to state a reason for application.

Additionally the PD gave her the "application" but told her to deliver it to the town hall for processing. Since when was this not handled through the PD? Can someone shed some light on what is lawful here? If Jaffrey is imposing illegal measures on their application I'm going to recommend to my friend that she fight it and not go along with their whimsical rules.

 

[Bonesinium]

I have a friend who lives in Jaffrey. She just went to the PD and got her application form. It is not the form I got in Rindge 18 months ago and it requires information that I understood to be unlawful to request in the process of applying for a P&R.

It is requiring 3 references, occupation, employer information, and what really sets me off... A 'reason to make application to carry a pistol in New Hampshire.' When I applied I clearly remember researching the process and reading that if your town required any of this nonsense that you should refuse and insist that the correct forms and process be used. Has the form changed? I definitely didn't need references or anything like that and I certainly didn't need to state a reason for application.

Additionally the PD gave her the "application" but told her to deliver it to the town hall for processing. Since when was this not handled through the PD? Can someone shed some light on what is lawful here? If Jaffrey is imposing illegal measures on their application I'm going to recommend to my friend that she fight it and not go along with their whimsical rules.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/ssb/permitslicensing/documents/dssp85.pdf

That link is to the form. It has been that way for several years at least, references and reason are part of the normal form. Any reason at all can be given. It sounds like she has the correct form. All those things are legal.

Also, I may be mistaken, but I believe a town selectman may be authorized to issue the license and not just the police chief. This may be how they do it. Also legal.

Yep, all these people can do it.

"The selectmen of a town, the mayor or chief of police of a city or a full-time police officer designated by them respectively, the county sheriff for a resident of an unincorporated place, or the county sheriff if designated by the selectmen of a town that has no police chief"


It sounds like Jaffery is doing exactly what is legal and nothing more. I see no 'whimsical' rules whatsoever.

 

[SubieGuy4]

It sounds like Jaffery is doing exactly what is legal and nothing more. I see no 'whimsical' rules whatsoever.

My research seems to be turning up the same thing. Could I have filled out an outdated form when I applied in Rindge in 11/2012? I get fired up about these things. I find it frustrating enough that there's a license at all, much less that they'd ask for a reason.

 

[wmccurdy53]

That is NOT the form I filled out, in Hudson, in Feb 2013 for my renewal.

It is NOT the form my stepson filled out when he got his initial license, in Hudson, in April of this year.

 

[SubieGuy4]

That is NOT the form I filled out, in Hudson, in Feb 2013 for my renewal.

It is NOT the form my stepson filled out when he got his initial license, in Hudson, in April of this year.

Okay that's what I was looking for. I'd like to see a few more people chime in. Maybe with some inside/advanced knowledge into why the difference and what the story is.

 

[Kevin_NH]

The "No other forms shall be used" language has been in the law for +20 years

The official form last changed in March 2011, and RSA 159:6 states "The director of state police is hereby authorized and directed to prepare forms for the licenses required under this chapter and forms for the application for such licenses and to supply the same to officials of the cities and towns authorized to issue the licenses. No other forms shall be used by officials of cities and towns. "

That is NOT the form I filled out, in Hudson, in Feb 2013 for my renewal. It is NOT the form my stepson filled out when he got his initial license, in Hudson, in April of this year.

Where did you get the form you filled out for Hudson? The HudsonPD website links to the state form.

Could I have filled out an outdated form when I applied in Rindge in 11/2012?

I suppose it's possible they had old copies sitting around for a year and half.

 

[DarrenL]

That's the one I filled out in Nashua last month.

 

[Bonesinium]

That is NOT the form I filled out, in Hudson, in Feb 2013 for my renewal.

It is NOT the form my stepson filled out when he got his initial license, in Hudson, in April of this year.

Link or upload of said forms?

 

[Kevin_NH]

I found my old archived copy from 2010 (and a bottle of whiteout circa 1993)

Was it either of these two variations?

Left is the December 2009 revision, right has the new form-fillable PDF from 2011. No other form shall be used.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

The lesson here is to always download the official form from the state to avoid giving PDs the opportunity to use a custom form. Also, minimize contact with the PD, again, to avoid giving them the opportunity to demand more info. Send the application in via certified mail. There is a thread on this.

 

[cyberlogicx]

Tell them to go pound sand. Fill out the form from NH.gov and that's it. Nothing more. If they deny you, sue the shit out of them, sit back, profit, and watch the CoP squirm.

 

[Bonesinium]

Tell them to go pound sand. Fill out the form from NH.gov and that's it. Nothing more. If they deny you, sue the shit out of them, sit back, profit, and watch the CoP squirm.

You do realize telling them to go pound sand when they are already complying with the law and nothing more would be pretty foolish, right?

 

[shamrockjr]

Tell them to go pound sand. Fill out the form from NH.gov and that's it. Nothing more. If they deny you, sue the shit out of them, sit back, profit, and watch the CoP squirm.

I have never heard or read of a person successfully suing any state department, PO or otherwise, for a monetary settlement when it comes to denial of a gun permit/license.

IANAL but I have to think a lawsuit would do nothing more than (at best) secure your Constitutional right and make you a few thousand dollars poorer than when you started.

 

[cyberlogicx]

I have never heard or read of a person successfully suing any state department, PO or otherwise, for a monetary settlement when it comes to denial of a gun permit/license.

IANAL but I have to think a lawsuit would do nothing more than (at best) secure your Constitutional right and make you a few thousand dollars poorer than when you started.

Since you live in MA, you don't have the right to sue. Here in the free state of New Hampshire, one can sue over any denial or delay, unless they are a prohibited person. And the CoP is personally responsible for the court costs. Freedom is great.

- - - Updated - - -

You do realize telling them to go pound sand when they are already complying with the law and nothing more would be pretty foolish, right?

If they are using a different form, they can suck it, and be told to pound sand.

 

[SubieGuy4]

You do realize telling them to go pound sand when they are already complying with the law and nothing more would be pretty foolish, right?

If they're using the wrong form they aren't complying with the law.

 

[Bonesinium]

There has been nothing mentioned that would indicate they are using anything but the proper form.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I have never heard or read of a person successfully suing any state department, PO or otherwise, for a monetary settlement when it comes to denial of a gun permit/license. IANAL but I have to think a lawsuit would do nothing more than (at best) secure your Constitutional right and make you a few thousand dollars poorer than when you started.

In NH, people win, and as cyberlogix noted,. the CoP is responsible for the court costs. No you don't get a profit, but you do get satisfaction, and your P&R.

 

[KBCraig]

Report from Lancaster NH: dropped two apps off on Wednesday. On Thursday they called my daughter to verify her name change, and which was currently correct. Friday morning, they called to come pick them up.

 

[Bonesinium]

Report from Lancaster NH: dropped two apps off on Wednesday. On Thursday they called my daughter to verify her name change, and which was currently correct. Friday morning, they called to come pick them up.

That's good service right there!

 

[Racenet]

That's good service right there!

That's the "North Country" way.

 

[Marlin]

Report from Somersworth-
I dropped off the standard one page application on 6/6/14.
A Somersworth officer came to verify my residence (checked my drivers license and
looked at a utility bill).
I picked up the completed license on 6/2014.
Exactly 14 days.

Marlin

 

[usp45ct]

Wife went in on the 8th of June and picked it up Friday. The issuing officer shook her hand, said congrats and then commented that not enough women apply. East Longmeadow.

 

[Mr Weebles]

A Somersworth officer came to verify my residence (checked my drivers license and looked at a utility bill).

Ridiculous.

You should have told him to go away.

NH police departments have no authority to do anything like that. They can either issue the license or deny within 14 days, nothing more.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Ridiculous. You should have told him to go away.
NH police departments have no authority to do anything like that. They can either issue the license or deny within 14 days, nothing more.

I was under the impression issuing authority can ask to look at your NH-issued ID (Driver's License, etc) before they hand you your P&R, but cannot make a photocopy?

 

[soloman02]

I was under the impression issuing authority can ask to look at your NH-issued ID (Driver's License, etc) before they hand you your P&R, but cannot make a photocopy?

They can look at the DL but not copy it. Asking for a utility bill is "extra legal."

 

[Bonesinium]

They can look at the DL but not copy it. Asking for a utility bill is "extra legal."

Yep. They have no reason to see a utility bill either. Why?

As for seeing a NH ID? Sure. I see no problem with that. You already gave them all that information on the application. A quick look, see that it matches, good to go. Makes sense to me.

With that said, actually coming by the house to see it? You would think they could take a look at it either when the application is dropped off, or when you come in to pick it up. Seems like a waste of time, but if they want to, I suppose they can knock themselves out.

 

[soloman02]

Yep. They have no reason to see a utility bill either. Why?

As for seeing a NH ID? Sure. I see no problem with that. You already gave them all that information on the application. A quick look, see that it matches, good to go. Makes sense to me.

With that said, actually coming by the house to see it? You would think they could take a look at it either when the application is dropped off, or when you come in to pick it up. Seems like a waste of time, but if they want to, I suppose they can knock themselves out.

Maybe they delivered the license? The actual wording of the law does state delivered.

The original shall be delivered to the licensee

 

[Bonesinium]

Maybe they delivered the license? The actual wording of the law does state delivered.

That could be nice. I think it is easier to go and pick it up, otherwise they would have to deliver it by hand when you are around, as the RSA also requires them to keep a duplicate with your signature. So no matter how you cut it, they need one signed by you.

The license shall be in duplicate and shall bear the name, address, description, and signature of the licensee. The original shall be delivered to the licensee and the duplicate shall be preserved by the people issuing the same for 4 years.

 

[mikem317]

Maybe they delivered the license? The actual wording of the law does state delivered.

Some small towns actual do physically deliver the P&R to the licensee. Not many.