Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

[drgrant]

This is the crazy result you get when the left bans something... and then adds any/all individual parts that could be used to make that something.

But there will still be 100 vendors that don't care and will get you what you need. Even with this garbage there's a wallhack for everything.

I've got a form 1 pending from a 7/30 submission. I'll let everyone know what happens. Worst case it gets denied. I get the thing as a receiver until 10/23 at which point I'll marry the upper and lower together again and put a brace on it hence having a legal preban pistol (asw).

At least in the near term I don't think anything will change. Even ATF by this point is probably sick of MA state gun apparatchiks blowing big clouds of smoke up their ass. Worst case someone will hire an NFA attorney to shellack them again (for whats like the 4th or 5th time now? ) ATF can't really tell what someone is SBRing. That is a fundamental problem with them trying to play that game.

 

[Stangg350]

What about LEO transfers to private sale after 8/1 but befor 10/23 I know it don’t happen a lot but it’s legal before 8/1.. can law enforcement sell there private stuff with non law enforcement now ?

 

[chris_1001]

I've got a form 1 pending from a 7/30 submission. I'll let everyone know what happens. Worst case it gets denied. I get the thing as a receiver until 10/23 at which point I'll marry the upper and lower together again and put a brace on it hence having a legal preban pistol (asw).

This is what I’m wondering

Can I build/have a pre 8/1 host and have it be a 51 ounce pistol on 10/23?

Be nice to save $200 like people do in most every other state.

 

[CrackPot]

It doesn't say that large tubes on semi's are illegal. It says that large tubes on pumps are legal. And I point this out to specifically point out the SPAS-12 from the world famous Jurassic Park movie. If you bought one on 8/1, so you don't have to worry about all that assault weapon funny business. And now we can just talk about capacity. It is absolutely a pump shotgun. It is also a semi auto shotgun. I don't see a part of the law that says this is a pump that can have a 20 round extended tube but then can't because it's semi auto.

Possession of a large capacity feeding device is unlawful. Read definition in section 121. Over five rounds for a shotgun. It’s semi and over five so unlawful.

Purchased on 8/1 does not exempt you from the ASW ban if it was not lawfully possessed on 8/1. Semi auto with over five rounds is illegal so you get no grandfathering.

 

[CrackPot]

What about LEO transfers to private sale after 8/1 but befor 10/23 I know it don’t happen a lot but it’s legal before 8/1.. can law enforcement sell there private stuff with non law enforcement now ?

If Leo lawfully possesses something, they can sell to anyone after 10/22 since it is a grandfathered item. Between 8/1-10/23 current lane is in effect so likely it is not a lawful transfer.

8/1 is the new preban.

 

[Cuz]

So, is it still possible to get a stripped lower that will take 9mm Glock mags? And if so, does anyone have them available at somewhat reasonable prices?

 

[Lxpony]

So, is it still possible to get a stripped lower that will take 9mm Glock mags? And if so, does anyone have them available at somewhat reasonable prices?

People like you make me laugh. Should have gotten off your ass months ago.

Nevermind. Just saw your join date here. Should have gotten off your ass years ago. Those EDC9 lowers were selling for $200 last weekend. Good luck finding them now less them $500

 

[Cuz]

People like you make me laugh. Should have gotten off your ass months ago.

Nevermind. Just saw your join date here. Should have gotten off your ass years ago. Those EDC9 lowers were selling for $200 last weekend. Good luck finding them now less them $500

lol, uhmmm:
- asking for a friend;
- just wondering what mine were now worth;
- thinking about how many more I might need;
- got off my ass and spent all available funds on other crap I didn’t need last week/month/year/decade…

Take your pick.

 

[Duxprep]

OK I can't figure out where this lands within the new law. A magazine fed (5 round) pump gun with a pistol grip? A buddy of mine has one and is unclear of it's legality now

 

[wcorey]

OK I can't figure out where this lands within the new law. A magazine fed (5 round) pump gun with a pistol grip? A buddy of mine has one and is unclear of it's legality now

View attachment 905931

Not semi = good to go

 

[milktree]

I've been racking my brain about this.

Are there any edge or corner cases, no matter how contrived, where the §122 "Assault-style firearm"(f) "copy or duplicate" definition has any significance at all?

Like some weird set of evil features and manufacture and/or assembly date where clause (f) changes anything at all?

The only possibility I can think of is if the courts decide that Healey's 7/20/16 edict is in fact law, but only for stuff after 7/20/16, not before... despite the fact that the edict said "everything since '94 is illegal" But even then, I can't think of any set of circumstances where it isn't just words thrown in to stroke Healey's ego.

Am I missing some weird corner case, even one that would never happen in the wild?

 

[CrackPot]

So, is it still possible to get a stripped lower that will take 9mm Glock mags? And if so, does anyone have them available at somewhat reasonable prices?

If lawfully possessed on 8/1, then sure. But everyone I know is sold out.

 

[chris_1001]

OK I can't figure out where this lands within the new law. A magazine fed (5 round) pump gun with a pistol grip? A buddy of mine has one and is unclear of it's legality now

View attachment 905931

GAY! But legal...

 

[2/1Marine]

For what it is worth I spoke at length about this with my state rep and have reached out to the AG for clarification on interpreting this cluster.
My state rep was under the impression that everything owned and entered into the current FA-10 system would be grandfathered (regardless of Healy edict). I told him I'm not so certain and would like clarification.
I shot an email over to the AG's office asking for clarification. I will begin holding my breath for a response now.... and if one is received will be sure to share with everyone on here.

What is really unfortunate here is that this is going to take quite some time to get sorted out and even longer to work its way through the courts. In the meantime all of us legal gunowners sit and wait in purgatory behind enemy lines while our constitutional rights are blatantly ignored and trampled.

Here is the response I received. Nothing earth shattering...

"Thank you for reaching out to the community engagement division. Unfortunately, we cannot give legal advice on individual circumstances, but the new bill specifically exempts assault-style firearms lawfully possessed as of August 1, 2024. It would be expected that there will be a number of explainers coming out from various agencies before the law takes effect on October 23."

 

[drgrant]

@CrackPot let's look at the feature test thing for a minute, as the feature test for semiautomatic rifles looks pretty restrictive.

So if I am reading it right, basically the first delimiter is a detachable mag, if it doesnt have this, then most of the other shit doesn't matter? (eg, like a DSI AR15 would walk around it, one of those shitty lowers that cant even take a mag. )

So as a plain example, someone could have a Garand, or an SKS with a threaded barrel and a "shroud" on it, and it doesnt matter because they both have integral magazines.

On the other hand, you take something like a Ruger Mini 14, and because it has a detacheable magazine, the feature test now applies, so in order for that Mini 14 to be
legal, it'd essentially have to be like the ranch version that only has the "barrel shroud" at best and no threaded barrel? So an M1 Carbine would probably also be OK.

But yet on the other hand, you take other stuff that was "previously annointed as being completely legal" like a Tavor X95.. and that has a "pistol or thumbhole grip" and a "barrel shroud". etc. Bam now illegal unless it comes in completely mutilated to get around the test.

Of course then theres the "copies or duplicates" problem. that has a layer of lard on top of this, right? So on top of all that bullshit, I can't just build an AR pack it with a 10 rd mag, have no other evil features (eg, a completely unshrouded upper and gas tube, lmao) and that wouldnt be legal "Because it is a copy or duplicate?" etc.

 

[CrackPot]

@CrackPot let's look at the feature test thing for a minute, as the feature test for semiautomatic rifles looks pretty restrictive.

So if I am reading it right, basically the first delimiter is a detachable mag, if it doesnt have this, then most of the other shit doesn't matter? (eg, like a DSI AR15 would walk around it, one of those shitty lowers that cant even take a mag. )

So as a plain example, someone could have a Garand, or an SKS with a threaded barrel and a "shroud" on it, and it doesnt matter because they both have integral magazines.

On the other hand, you take something like a Ruger Mini 14, and because it has a detacheable magazine, the feature test now applies, so in order for that Mini 14 to be
legal, it'd essentially have to be like the ranch version that only has the "barrel shroud" at best and no threaded barrel? So an M1 Carbine would probably also be OK.

But yet on the other hand, you take other stuff that was "previously annointed as being completely legal" like a Tavor X95.. and that has a "pistol or thumbhole grip" and a "barrel shroud". etc. Bam now illegal unless it comes in completely mutilated to get around the test.

Of course then theres the "copies or duplicates" problem. that has a layer of lard on top of this, right? So on top of all that bullshit, I can't just build an AR pack it with a 10 rd mag, have no other evil features (eg, a completely unshrouded upper and gas tube, lmao) and that wouldnt be legal "Because it is a copy or duplicate?" etc.

Everything you said I agree with.

 

[MAJoe]

@CrackPot let's look at the feature test thing for a minute, as the feature test for semiautomatic rifles looks pretty restrictive.

So if I am reading it right, basically the first delimiter is a detachable mag, if it doesnt have this, then most of the other shit doesn't matter? (eg, like a DSI AR15 would walk around it, one of those shitty lowers that cant even take a mag. )

So as a plain example, someone could have a Garand, or an SKS with a threaded barrel and a "shroud" on it, and it doesnt matter because they both have integral magazines.

On the other hand, you take something like a Ruger Mini 14, and because it has a detacheable magazine, the feature test now applies, so in order for that Mini 14 to be
legal, it'd essentially have to be like the ranch version that only has the "barrel shroud" at best and no threaded barrel? So an M1 Carbine would probably also be OK.

But yet on the other hand, you take other stuff that was "previously annointed as being completely legal" like a Tavor X95.. and that has a "pistol or thumbhole grip" and a "barrel shroud". etc. Bam now illegal unless it comes in completely mutilated to get around the test.

Of course then theres the "copies or duplicates" problem. that has a layer of lard on top of this, right? So on top of all that bullshit, I can't just build an AR pack it with a 10 rd mag, have no other evil features (eg, a completely unshrouded upper and gas tube, lmao) and that wouldnt be legal "Because it is a copy or duplicate?" etc.

Everything you said I agree with.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the only caveat to this is Appendix A. It exempts the following semi autos from being assault weapons:

• Browning BAR Mark II Safari Semi-Auto Rifle
• Browning BAR Mark II Safari Magnum Rifle
• Browning High-Power Rifle
• Heckler & Koch Model 300 Rifle
• Iver Johnson M–1 Carbine
• Iver Johnson 50th Anniversary M–1 Carbine
• Marlin Model 9 Camp Carbine
• Marlin Model 45 Carbine
• Remington Nylon 66 Auto-Loading Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Auto Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Special Purpose Auto Rifle
• Ruger Mini-14 Autoloading Rifle (w/o folding stock)
• Ruger Mini Thirty Rifle

So your examples specifically would be exempt, but the thought process is valid. From my read these rifles and any copies or duplicates are immune?

(g) “Assault-style firearm” shall not include any: … (iv) any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of such firearms, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such firearms were manufactured on October 1, 1993

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2016/08/vw/appendix-a-guns-list.pdf

 

[milktree]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the only caveat to this is Appendix A. It exempts the following semi autos from being assault weapons: Assault-style firearms:

• Browning BAR Mark II Safari Semi-Auto Rifle
• Browning BAR Mark II Safari Magnum Rifle
• Browning High-Power Rifle
• Heckler & Koch Model 300 Rifle
• Iver Johnson M–1 Carbine
• Iver Johnson 50th Anniversary M–1 Carbine
• Marlin Model 9 Camp Carbine
• Marlin Model 45 Carbine
• Remington Nylon 66 Auto-Loading Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Auto Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Special Purpose Auto Rifle
• Ruger Mini-14 Autoloading Rifle (w/o folding stock)
• Ruger Mini Thirty Rifle

So your examples specifically would be exempt, but the thought process is valid. From my read these rifles and any copies or duplicates are immune?

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2016/08/vw/appendix-a-guns-list.pdf

I corrected this because an "assault weapon" (as defined in current law) and an "assault-style firearm" (as defined in H.4885) are not the same thing. When talking about law, we have to be precise and not get sloppy with "you know what I mean" language.

 

[MAJoe]

I corrected this because an "assault weapon" (as defined in current law) and an "assault-style firearm" (as defined in H.4885) are not the same thing. When talking about law, we have to be precise and not get sloppy with "you know what I mean" language.

Thanks, good catch. Also helpful so we can differentiate old vs new.

 

[Jenska22]

Remington Nylon 66 Auto-Loading Rifle

IN appendix A, I'm sure there are other, equally blatant, errors, but the one that jumps out at me is the Nylon 66 as a centerfire autoloader
so they can't even correct the old mistakes

 

[drgrant]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the only caveat to this is Appendix A. It exempts the following semi autos from being assault weapons:

• Browning BAR Mark II Safari Semi-Auto Rifle
• Browning BAR Mark II Safari Magnum Rifle
• Browning High-Power Rifle
• Heckler & Koch Model 300 Rifle
• Iver Johnson M–1 Carbine
• Iver Johnson 50th Anniversary M–1 Carbine
• Marlin Model 9 Camp Carbine
• Marlin Model 45 Carbine
• Remington Nylon 66 Auto-Loading Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Auto Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Rifle
• Remington Model 7400 Special Purpose Auto Rifle
• Ruger Mini-14 Autoloading Rifle (w/o folding stock)
• Ruger Mini Thirty Rifle

So your examples specifically would be exempt, but the thought process is valid. From my read these rifles and any copies or duplicates are immune?

https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2016/08/vw/appendix-a-guns-list.pdf

In @CrackPot defense I didn't bring up that list.

It does make me wonder though because it's not specific.... "Ruger mini 14 without folding stock" can mean a lot of "things that don't have folding stocks" etc.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

Ok, I've read this entire post and my head is spinning a bit. I am hoping you guys have some guidance on this - a co-worker is moving back from TX to MA, sometime in the next few weeks. How does 4885 affect what they can bring into the state? Is there a one-time exemption for such a move?

Then, the "Me" part of it.... is what he brings in transferrable?

 

[chittychittybangbang]

Ok, I've read this entire post and my head is spinning a bit. I am hoping you guys have some guidance on this - don't believe this has been covered yet - a co-worker is moving back from TX to MA, sometime in the next few weeks. How does 4885 affect what they can bring into the state? Is there a one-time exemption for such a move?

Then, the "Me" part of it.... is what he brings (if long guns) in transferrable?

 

[67ray]

Ok, I've read this entire post and my head is spinning a bit. I am hoping you guys have some guidance on this - don't believe this has been covered yet - a co-worker is moving back from TX to MA, sometime in the next few weeks. How does 4885 affect what they can bring into the state? Is there a one-time exemption for such a move?

Then, the "Me" part of it.... is what he brings (if long guns) in transferrable?

This is simple: If ASF, and not in Mass on 8/1, then it can NEVER be in Mass

Sorry.

 

[DJBrad]

Ok, I've read this entire post and my head is spinning a bit. I am hoping you guys have some guidance on this - don't believe this has been covered yet - a co-worker is moving back from TX to MA, sometime in the next few weeks. How does 4885 affect what they can bring into the state? Is there a one-time exemption for such a move?

Then, the "Me" part of it.... is what he brings (if long guns) in transferrable?

Oh boy…..

 

[BroncoAZ]

I think he can bring in all the pistols under 50 oz that he wants, and anything non semi auto long gun. If it might fall under ASF then it seems like the 8/1 date would apply so he couldn’t bring it.

 

[pastera]

OK I can't figure out where this lands within the new law. A magazine fed (5 round) pump gun with a pistol grip? A buddy of mine has one and is unclear of it's legality now

View attachment 905931

Does it take an AR mag and trigger components?
Then the lower is an assault-style firearm on its own

 

[LakeTrout]

Ok, I've read this entire post and my head is spinning a bit. I am hoping you guys have some guidance on this - don't believe this has been covered yet - a co-worker is moving back from TX to MA, sometime in the next few weeks. How does 4885 affect what they can bring into the state? Is there a one-time exemption for such a move?

Then, the "Me" part of it.... is what he brings (if long guns) in transferrable?

The state would have to prove you didn’t have it here before that date. Sorry, Your “coworker”.

A one time exemption!??? Holy f***. It sounds like you’re moving to MA without knowing shit about MA. Sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences.

 

[Duxprep]

Does it take an AR mag and trigger components?
Then the lower is an assault-style firearm on its own

It's a shotgun

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Ok, I've read this entire post and my head is spinning a bit. I am hoping you guys have some guidance on this - don't believe this has been covered yet - a co-worker is moving back from TX to MA, sometime in the next few weeks. How does 4885 affect what they can bring into the state? Is there a one-time exemption for such a move?

Then, the "Me" part of it.... is what he brings (if long guns) in transferrable?

The state would have to prove you didn’t have it here before that date. Sorry, Your “coworker”.

A one time exemption!??? Holy f***. It sounds like you’re moving to MA without knowing shit about MA. Sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences.

Nobody receives a one time exemption from the a**h*** reaming of living in Mass. He will have to bend over like the rest of us. Fair and square!