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Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing
- Thread starter CrackPot
- Start date
anyone understand the new under 21 restrictions and how it relates to youth shooting?
I get that my 13 year old can't hunt with his semiauto 20G shotgun anymore but can he shoot it and a 15-22 at the range in MA?
GOAL's summary has this statement...
An FID card holder is banned from possessing a semi-automatic outside of an officially incorporated club or licensed range. Must be under the supervision of an LTC holder.
Obviously my 13 year old doesn't have a FID but does it still apply? Can my kids still plink their 22?
What about in 18 months when he gets his FID?
OH yeah and obviously f*** this shit.. I shouldn't have to ask these questions.
I get that my 13 year old can't hunt with his semiauto 20G shotgun anymore but can he shoot it and a 15-22 at the range in MA?
GOAL's summary has this statement...
An FID card holder is banned from possessing a semi-automatic outside of an officially incorporated club or licensed range. Must be under the supervision of an LTC holder.
Obviously my 13 year old doesn't have a FID but does it still apply? Can my kids still plink their 22?
What about in 18 months when he gets his FID?
OH yeah and obviously f*** this shit.. I shouldn't have to ask these questions.
CrackPot
NES Member
Under current law if you are under 50oz as originally manufactured (w/o mag) then yes. the additional foregrip on the various devices like the flux all are a problem under the new law, so get what you want grandfathered if you are going that route.
namedpipes
NES Member
I've moved this rather amusing comment to another thread for dechaosification purposes.
Last edited:
CrackPot
NES Member
Lawfully possessed ON 8/1/24. That is how you lawfully have an ASW under the new law.
The new flux is 49.2oz fully assembled and that number is not random
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@CrackPot
I now live in NH. I have a lot of ammo that I will want to sell off, preferably to those behind the Healey Wall.
Under this new draconian law, can I privately sell it to MA residents if they meet me in NH? No paperwork/registration/etc.?
Will this only be possible prior to 10/23/24? Or will this be possible after that date as well?
Thanks for shedding some light on all these problem areas.
Len
CrackPot
NES Member
Yes. But I have to look after 10/23 if the resident needs to register when they bring it in.
not new guy
NES Member
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The new law seems to go a step further and criminalizes the possession of the bare tube - no caps or springs or installation even needed. Maybe I'm reading it wrong though.
CrackPot
NES Member
The old law technically made the 7rd tube illegal also. This is not really new. People are just waking up to the fact that everyone was confused about semi-auto shotguns.
1903Collector
NES Member
Maybe asked already but would reloading components be affected?
CrackPot
NES Member
The requirement to register/record all ammunition sales will effect reloading components. The definition of "Ammunition" is unchanged so includes cases, primers, bullets, and powder.
Excellent question and not one I had looked at before you asked.
1903Collector
NES Member
lol I was afraid that was going to be the answer, thanks.
BTW, a couple years back when I bought my 1301 from you and I mentioned about putting a mag extension on it you cut me off and said "just don't do it!" I never did but finally understand why.
namedpipes
NES Member
Fair enough point. I'll move it.
pastera
NES Member
As long as the mod is not readily reversed it should be fine.
But dropping a restriction block in an otherwise standard magazine wouldn't pass a not readily restored test.
inerlogic
NES Member
lol, lock and sticky plz
pupchow
NES Member
re: Shotgun
Referring to current law, by the language in Section 121, a semi-auto shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds in a magazine is NOT an assault weapon. That is not the same as saying a semi-auto shotgun with a magazine capacity in excess of 5 is an assault weapon.
malegislature.gov
''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9 and M–12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.
=================
The "features test" defines what it takes for semi-auto shotgun to meet the definition of "assault weapon"
Referring to 18 U.S.C. section 921(a) (30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994:
(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of—
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Referring to current law, by the language in Section 121, a semi-auto shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds in a magazine is NOT an assault weapon. That is not the same as saying a semi-auto shotgun with a magazine capacity in excess of 5 is an assault weapon.
General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 121
malegislature.gov
''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9 and M–12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.
=================
The "features test" defines what it takes for semi-auto shotgun to meet the definition of "assault weapon"
Referring to 18 U.S.C. section 921(a) (30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994:
(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of—
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Wow, I hadn't read that part carefully.
§123(h)(i) actually says,
"the complete description of the firearm and ammunition transferred, including the make, serial number, type of firearm and designation as a large capacity firearm, if applicable;"
I wonder what "complete description of the ammunition" even means. Caliber and quantity? Manufacturer's model number? Lot code? Bullet weight?
That's going to make ammo sales by dealers... not impossible, but maybe so cumbersome it's not practical.
I'm not sure how recording "1,000 CCI 500 primers" or "1lb Alliant Power Pistol" is any harder to record than "500 rounds CCI Blazer 115gr 9mm"
The real problem here is requirement to record the sale of ammo AT ALL.
chris_1001
NES Member
re: Shotgun
Referring to current law, by the language in Section 121, a semi-auto shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds in a magazine is NOT an assault weapon. That is not the same as saying a semi-auto shotgun with a magazine capacity in excess of 5 is an assault weapon.
General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 121
''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9 and M–12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.
=================
The "features test" defines what it takes for semi-auto shotgun to meet the definition of "assault weapon"
Referring to 18 U.S.C. section 921(a) (30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994:
(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of—
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Thats how I read it, no pistol grip/stock, tube mag and I can have more than 5...
My reading is that the ammo tracking only applies to dealers, not individuals.
128A(b) says it's legal for an LTC or FID holder to sell ammo to another LTC or FID holder, with no recording requirements.
Interestingly, (more bad writing) 128A(c)(ii) says an heir can only sell four ammunitions per year. ??
1903Collector
NES Member
It really is f***ing written that way?
