Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

[pastera]

Question regarding ATF dual state residency and pistol purchases.

Prior to the new law, dual residents could buy any pistol they wanted in their free state where they owned property and later bring it to MA (provided no AWB conflicts). The roster didn't matter because it only applied to dealer sales. Technically it needed to be registered in MIRCS within 7 days.

What does the landscape look like under the new law? My read is that it still only applies to dealer sales and there are no material changes.

Correct - except for changes in assault-style definitions the requirements for personal import into the state haven't changed

 

[DJBrad]

I have a question about firearms in the “others” category. like a tac-14, honcho, shockwave. I have not seen any discussion on them. Any relevant changes to buying those post 8/1/24. I’m only asking because they are an easy route to the SBS.

Haven’t seen any changes wrt to those except that frames are no longer allowed and then you have the roster issue. Unless it’s on the roster you ain’t gettin it.

 

[not new guy]

Wait, toasters are regulated in this overreaching pile of shit too!?

 

[DJBrad]

Wait, toasters are regulated in this overreaching pile of shit too!?

Corrected before you could quote it, ha!

 

[Yotacrawler]

Haven’t seen any changes wrt to those except that frames are no longer allowed and then you have the roster issue. Unless it’s on the roster you ain’t gettin it.

Thank you for the reply. Another question, I believe an other is done with a frame transfer similar to a pistol. I forget how the one I had was transferred, I EFA-10’d it as a pistol once I got it “built” Would an other fall under the frame transfers like a pistol would until 10/23 and still be brought in and transferred or would it end up being an illegal ASW possessed after 8/1 like an AR or similar.

 

[CrackPot]

Question regarding ATF dual state residency and pistol purchases.

Prior to the new law, dual residents could buy any pistol they wanted in their free state where they owned property and later bring it to MA (provided no AWB conflicts). The roster didn't matter because it only applied to dealer sales. Technically it needed to be registered in MIRCS within 7 days.

What does the landscape look like under the new law? My read is that it still only applies to dealer sales and there are no material changes.

No change

 

[EMTDAD]

What's the deal with "ammo registration".?.. saw a couple of emails (MFS and SS) alluding to this and the tax-free weekend coming up (ie, buy now)

I mean, like showing our LTC wasn't enough, now we'll be on a list for how much ammo we buy? Eff that.. I'll buy in RI now... sure I had to get a blue card, but at least they're not logging my purchases.. and when I head north to NH, I'll buy there too. Even better cuz no sales tax.

 

[cockpitbob]

Where do people buy ammo in southern NH along I-95? Kittery comes to mind, but I can't remember if it's on the NES boycott list. I gave up keeping track of who we don't like when my list started looking like a CVS receipt.

 

[CrackPot]

What's the deal with "ammo registration".?.. saw a couple of emails (MFS and SS) alluding to this and the tax-free weekend coming up (ie, buy now)

I mean, like showing our LTC wasn't enough, now we'll be on a list for how much ammo we buy? Eff that.. I'll buy in RI now... sure I had to get a blue card, but at least they're not logging my purchases.. and when I head north to NH, I'll buy there too. Even better cuz no sales tax.

Dealers selling ammo have to track it just like sales of firearms and have a register of sales open to police at all times. SECTION 37 MGL 140 123 (h) under the new law.

 

[Ecocharles]

Where do people buy ammo in southern NH along I-95? Kittery comes to mind, but I can't remember if it's on the NES boycott list. I gave up keeping track of who we don't like when my list started looking like a CVS receipt.

Kittery is in Maine so you would need to pay tax on the ammo. I've never found NH as a cheap place to buy ammo, even driving up 93 to Shooters Outpost or the Bass Pro Shop. Some really nice deals on-line though.

 

[DJBrad]

Thank you for the reply. Another question, I believe an other is done with a frame transfer similar to a pistol. I forget how the one I had was transferred, I EFA-10’d it as a pistol once I got it “built” Would an other fall under the frame transfers like a pistol would until 10/23 and still be brought in and transferred or would it end up being an illegal ASW possessed after 8/1 like an AR or similar.

I think those pumps had to be framed out somehow. Fed definition calls it a “firearm”. The old bill called it a “firearm” too which meant a pistol, revolver, or something. Now everything is a “firearm” and an ASF except for pump, lever, bolt, basically anything not semiauto. Now that the roster only covers “firearms” nothing can be transferred in after 10/23 outside of what is on the roster unless the grand counsel deems it needs to be updated to include all those easy to get and boring fudd guns.

It seems according to the new language it is a gender fluid unicorn. It is a pump “other” which doesn’t fit into the 5 new definitions of an ASF. Even the “covert” weapon language doesn’t describe it. It still remains as a Federally defined AOW. I can’t speak to how these are treated with the new bill in Ma after 10/23 but as of now unless there was a TAC-14, CD Honcho, or Shockwave reciever/frame sitting around in an FFL from before 8/1 I think it will be a some time before we get clarity (which this bill does not purvey).

 

[EMTDAD]

Dealers selling ammo have to track it just like sales of firearms and have a register of sales open to police at all times. SECTION 37 MGL 140 123 (h) under the new law.

Dealers selling ammo have to track it just like sales of firearms and have a register of sales open to police at all times. SECTION 37 MGL 140 123 (h) under the new law.

Are reloading components considered "ammunition" subject to the log requirements?

sorry.. haven't had time to parse thru all the shit.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Where do people buy ammo in southern NH along I-95? Kittery comes to mind, but I can't remember if it's on the NES boycott list. I gave up keeping track of who we don't like when my list started looking like a CVS receipt.

Kittery is definitely not a good place to buy ammo unless your looking to pay more then what gun stores charge.

 

[CrackPot]

Are reloading components considered "ammunition" subject to the log requirements?

sorry.. haven't had time to parse thru all the shit.

The definition of ammunition remains broad and encompasses components

 

[milktree]

The definition of ammunition remains broad and encompasses components

"Firearm" is broad and encompasses BB guns, air guns, Nerf guns, potato guns, flare guns, T-shirt guns.

There's no definition of "pistol" or "revolver"

"weapon" is defined as "any rifle, shotgun, or firearm"

The definitions of both "rifle" and "shotgun" start with "a weapon having..."


They're not really good at definitions.

 

[CrackPot]

"Firearm" is broad and encompasses BB guns, air guns, Nerf guns, potato guns, flare guns, T-shirt guns.

There's no definition of "pistol" or "revolver"

"weapon" is defined as "any rifle, shotgun, or firearm"

The definitions of both "rifle" and "shotgun" start with "a weapon having..."


They're not really good at definitions.

That’s current law. New law does not define or use weapon. It defines and uses firearm.

 

[milktree]

That’s current law. New law does not define or use weapon. It defines and uses firearm.

Right, but current law still uses "weapon" in the definitions of "rifle" and "shotgun", so it's still there. They didn't clean it up.

Or maybe I missed where the definition of "weapon" gets deleted....

 

[cetme24]

"Firearm" is broad and encompasses BB guns, air guns, Nerf guns, potato guns, flare guns, T-shirt guns.

There's no definition of "pistol" or "revolver"

"weapon" is defined as "any rifle, shotgun, or firearm"

The definitions of both "rifle" and "shotgun" start with "a weapon having..."


They're not really good at definitions.

You must use the mass definition of Firearm and it is not that broad. This is copied from goals breakdown of the new law.

Firearm”, a stun gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, large capacity firearm, assault-style firearm and machine gun, loaded or unloaded, which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a shot or bullet; the frame or receiver of any such firearm or the unfinished frame or receiver of any such firearm; provided, however, that “firearm” shall not include any antique firearm or permanently inoperable firearm.

 

[DJBrad]

Right, but current law still uses "weapon" in the definitions of "rifle" and "shotgun", so it's still there. They didn't clean it up.

Or maybe I missed where the definition of "weapon" gets deleted....

It occurs about 15 times to cover the replacement. First instance is in Chapter 140


SECTION 27. Said section 121 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby further amended by striking out, in lines 136, 139, 140 and 147, the word “weapon”, each time it appears, and inserting in place thereof, in each instance, the following word:- firearm.

 

[milktree]

You must use the mass definition of Firearm and it is not that broad. This is copied from goals breakdown of the new law.

Firearm”, a stun gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, large capacity firearm, assault-style firearm and machine gun, loaded or unloaded, which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a shot or bullet; the frame or receiver of any such firearm or the unfinished frame or receiver of any such firearm; provided, however, that “firearm” shall not include any antique firearm or permanently inoperable firearm.

Right. A BB, potato gun, and Nerf gun fit that description, because it doesn’t specify method of propulsion or what shot and bullet mean.

 

[milktree]

It occurs about 15 times to cover the replacement. First instance is in Chapter 140


SECTION 27. Said section 121 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby further amended by striking out, in lines 136, 139, 140 and 147, the word “weapon”, each time it appears, and inserting in place thereof, in each instance, the following word:- firearm.

MGL C. 140 §121 still has definitions for “weapon”, “rifle”, and “shotgun”. Those definitions are not deleted or modified by H.4885.

 

[1903Collector]

So I got my order from midway, now they cancelled the followers from the order and processed the rest of it (just brass). I get the order a couple of days ago and low and behold whats in the box....my brass and the followers!!! now this is after they cancelled the order twice because their system kept trying to process the followers, they all f***ed up over there....

I have to go look at my statement to see what I actually got charged for lol

 

[slap shot]

Kittery is in Maine so you would need to pay tax on the ammo. I've never found NH as a cheap place to buy ammo, even driving up 93 to Shooters Outpost or the Bass Pro Shop. Some really nice deals on-line though.

Shooters and BPS? carry on…

 

[maltc]

Sorry if covered…are formerly ma compliant ar’s even subject to a features test anymore if lawfull owned prior to 8/1 considering there’s no delineation between 8/1 and pre 94? Or is there delineation between the two? (Which would be lawfully posessed in that configuration prior to 8/1).

 

[chris_1001]

Sorry if covered…are formerly ma compliant ar’s even subject to a features test anymore if lawfull owned prior to 8/1 considering there’s no delineation between 8/1 and pre 94? Or is there delineation between the two? (Which would be lawfully posessed in that configuration prior to 8/1).

We all want to know. Seems that way.

 

[DJBrad]

MGL C. 140 §121 still has definitions for “weapon”, “rifle”, and “shotgun”. Those definitions are not deleted or modified by H.4885.

Which section(s)?

 

[milktree]

Which section(s)?

I can't find anything in H.4885 that removes the definition of "weapon"

I *think* I found where H.4885 removes the word "weapon" from the definitions of "rifle" and "shotgun", but it's hard to match up the line numbers except by making some guesses. This is one of the things that irritate me about the way the laws are published.

e.g.: SECTION 27 is after the bit that defines "respondent" and somewhere before "sawed-off shotgun".

I bet the definition of "weapon" is somewhere in the lines 175 to 192 deleted by SECTION 31.

OK, so I take it back, maybe they did get it right and didn't leave a bunch of dangling definitions. But it's hard to say for sure without seeing the existing law with line numbers.

EDIT: It appears "weapon" still exists in the definition of "stun gun", because SECTION 27 only has four lines listed, all of which are used up by "rifle" "sawed off shotgun" and "shotgun", and the next reference is "trigger crank" and that's well beyond "stun gun" alphabetically.

 

[pastera]

Are reloading components considered "ammunition" subject to the log requirements?

sorry.. haven't had time to parse thru all the shit.

Components = ammunition
@CrackPot could answer better as a dealer but I believe the answer is yes components are logged.

 

[pastera]

Sorry if covered…are formerly ma compliant ar’s even subject to a features test anymore if lawfull owned prior to 8/1 considering there’s no delineation between 8/1 and pre 94? Or is there delineation between the two? (Which would be lawfully posessed in that configuration prior to 8/1).

After Oct 23 they are exempt from being considered an assault-style firearm.
Features don't matter.

The only contention is what the courts say about the date the definition of copies and duplicates.

Hopefully scotus grants cert.on the Maryland AW case and this goes away quickly.

 

[1903Collector]

Are reloading components considered "ammunition" subject to the log requirements?

sorry.. haven't had time to parse thru all the shit.

I asked this question of Crackpot farther back in the thread, it was his opinion that yes, components would be subject to that and I doubt any retailer is going to go thru that hassle for little ol' MA. Better stock up now.