Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

The term "privately made" is just the legislature's retardedness showing since the proper term is privately manufactured.
Is it?
I thought "manufactured" necessitated commercial activity..."in the business of," and all that.

Edit -
 
Is it?
I thought "manufactured" necessitated commercial activity..."in the business of," and all that.
You are right - I had it backwards.
But the Mass Legislature is still retarded
The stupidity comes from the use of "assembled" since anything you can assemble is a completed frame/receiver so would be an FFL transfer.

But the term manufacture shouldn't be a commercial term since it simply means to make from raw or unfinished materials

 
Seller? Seller is irrelevant, isn't it? The BUYER needs to be an FFL03/C&R holder to make it legal. (and the gun has to be a C&R gun)
True. But current eFA-10 forms don't allow for an FFL #, only a MA Dealer or LTC #. So there is no way to flag it as a legit out-of-state transfer due to FFL status. Same is true if someone reported sale of a pistol (C&R) from KTP to a MA subject (who held a C&R FFL) . . . that would have been me many years ago.
 
You are right - I had it backwards.
But the Mass Legislature is still retarded
The stupidity comes from the use of "assembled" since anything you can assemble is a completed frame/receiver so would be an FFL transfer.

But the term manufacture shouldn't be a commercial term since it simply means to make from raw or unfinished materials

I mean, I hear you and don't disagree. And, the law hinges on definitions that aren't always the same as the common usage.
 
A frame is a firearm so the serial is the frames serial - no new serial required since you didn't personally make the already serialized frame/receiver (this isn't a PMF even under federal guidelines)

The term "privately made" is just the legislature's retardedness showing since the proper term is privately manufactured.
How would that work then for 80s that were serialized by the owner prior to this bill passing? Same way I’m assuming?
 
Let's hope that it allows you to leave the source blank, as registration does now.

Someone on NES (many years ago) reported having BATFE and local police at his door since he had filled out a registration showing that he bought a gun from an individual (FTF) who lived in a different state. He eventually convinced them that no crime occurred as the seller was a C&R FFL, but the forms on the FRB website have no way to indicate that. I have a number of C&R guns that I want to sell (I now live in Free America) and I have a MA subject with a C&R FFL that is interested. If the form MUST have a seller on it, I won't sell anything to anyone in MA even if it would be a C&R to C&R FFL transfer.

Didn’t realize the 5th amendment got repealed.
 
How would that work then for 80s that were serialized by the owner prior to this bill passing? Same way I’m assuming?
You can't alter the serial number once marked so the serial is what it is as long as it meets the guidelines and is federally accepted

378 “Valid serial number”, an identifying number that has been: (i) placed on a firearm by a federally licensee authorized to serialize firearms or pursuant to the laws of any state or 26 U.S.C. 5842 and the regulations promulgated thereunder

  1. D.Privately made firearms marked by nonlicensees. Unless previously identified by another licensee in accordance with this section, licensees may adopt a unique identification number previously placed on a privately made firearm by an unlicensed person, but not duplicated on any other firearm of the licensee, that otherwise meets the identification requirements of this section provided that, within the period and in the manner herein prescribed, the licensee legibly and conspicuously places, or causes to be placed, on the frame or receiver thereof a serial number beginning with their abbreviated Federal firearms license number, which is the first three and last five digits, followed by a hyphen, before the existing unique identification number, e.g., "12345678-[unique identification number]".

No. Marking serial numbers on PMFs is a “customization” and a licensee’s return of a firearm, received solely for repair or customization, to the person from whom it was received does not require an ATF Form 4473 pursuant to 478.124(a) nor a NICS background check. However, licensees must record the acquisition and disposition of the PMF in the licensee’s A&D record.

So the federal government regards serializing as a "customization" of a PMF - therefore forcing a state issued serial number on your PMF to simply possess is forced expression or speech.
 
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You can't alter the serial number once marked so the serial is what it is as long as it meets the guidelines and is federally accepted




I wonder if the state is going to require a manufacturer name as well as a serial number as part of their "serial number" requirement.

e.g.: I have this stack of lowers that I serialized a month ago before the law took effect, but there's no "Milktree's Gun Works" or any other builder/manufacturer/assembler identification on them.

The way I read the law, the *ONLY* requirement is a serial number, nothing else.
 
You can't alter the serial number once marked so the serial is what it is as long as it meets the guidelines and is federally accepted







So the federal government regards serializing as a "customization" of a PMF - therefore forcing a state issued serial number on your PMF to simply possess is forced expression or speech.
Thank you
 
I wonder if the state is going to require a manufacturer name as well as a serial number as part of their "serial number" requirement.

e.g.: I have this stack of lowers that I serialized a month ago before the law took effect, but there's no "Milktree's Gun Works" or any other builder/manufacturer/assembler identification on them.

The way I read the law, the *ONLY* requirement is a serial number, nothing else.
I have the same. I followed the federal guidelines of a manufacturer marks with company, location, model, caliber, and serial number. If you decide to SBR a build then your name can be located within the flare of the magwell.
 
I have a friend that has a few vintage firearms that have no serial number. How Is that gonna be handled in the system?

If I’m not mistaken it was only a requirement starting in 1934 for you to have a serial number on a firearm. What happens with this registration system on firearms that were built prior to 1934 that do not have serial numbers
 
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I have a friend that has a few vintage firearms that have no serial number. How Is that gonna be handled in the system?

If I’m not mistaken it was only a requirement starting in 1934 do you have a serial number. What happens with this registration system on firearms that were built prior to 1934 that do not have serial numbers
If on or before October 22nd 1968 then there is no need to serialize.

Manufactured on or after October 23rd 1968? You have to serialize it.
 
If on or before October 22nd 1968 then there is no need to serialize.

Manufactured on or after October 23rd 1968? You have to serialize it.
But how are you going to register it in the new system with no serial number? I suspect it will not allow you to skip that field.
 
And for those that believe that it is a big lift to update the Transaction portal to be the registry - here is what the registry needs to collect:



(i),(ii),(iii) and (v) are all part of the current database.
(iv) is an easy addition that can be populated automatically if the current transaction was done by a dealer
(vi) is an easy checkbox field to add
(vii) is a given since you can only access the portal with an active license.

Good luck remembering when a firearm or lower was acquired.

It will be impossible for people to provide accurate information.
 
So peasants will have to remember who/where they purchased a firearm 15, 20, etc years ago?

What’s the chance this “registration” shit gets tossed in court?
Forget about 15-20 years ago. How about 2 or 3 years ago?

I don't remember when I bought my 929, I know I bought it sometime around 2020. But was it end of 2019, beginning 2020 or beginning of 2021?

This is so retarded.

Same with lowers. I have a lower from a NES group buy back in like 2012 or was it 2011? I don't remember the exact year I acquired it.
 
Forget about 15-20 years ago. How about 2 or 3 years ago?

I don't remember when I bought my 929, I know I bought it sometime around 2020. But was it end of 2019, beginning 2020 or beginning of 2021?

This is so retarded.

Same with lowers. I have a lower from a NES group buy back in like 2012 or was it 2011? I don't remember the exact year I acquired it.
And that's the catch.
How do you attest to a date when you don't actually remember it.
Non-gun people think that's absurd because a gun purchase would be a very unusual and therefore memorable event.
But for a firearms enthusiast a new gun is no more memorable than a new hammer to a carpenter. You might have a vague idea but it's just not that important to your day to day life.

The most defendable answer might just be 8/1/2024 since that would be a date that a full inventory of your collection would be prudent.
 
And that's the catch.
How do you attest to a date when you don't actually remember it.
Non-gun people think that's absurd because a gun purchase would be a very unusual and therefore memorable event.
But for a firearms enthusiast a new gun is no more memorable than a new hammer to a carpenter. You might have a vague idea but it's just not that important to your day to day life.

The most defendable answer might just be 8/1/2024 since that would be a date that a full inventory of your collection would be prudent.
If it is an open text field (doubt it) a good answer might be "Dont remember. Look at 4473".

The exact date shouldn't really matter. It should be a check box: "was it in State ON or BEFORE 8/1/2024" YES or NO.

Done.
 
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