Primer Source

Greg said:
I'm in for 100 primers, maybe 125.
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If it helps seal the deal, I'll take the leftover 75 to keep that full box economy of scale.

Fronting $3500 to someone on an anonymous forum with other unknown parties involved with the transaction? LOL- no. No offense to the person who organizes this, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes either. Nice idea to help, however.
 
Mountain said:
If it helps seal the deal, I'll take the leftover 75 to keep that full box economy of scale.

Fronting $3500 to someone on an anonymous forum with other unknown parties involved with the transaction? LOL- no. No offense to the person who organizes this, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes either. Nice idea to help, however.
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Yeah. I think that is too much.

While I am not a dealer, I dont think a dealer needs to get 100% of the money upfront. If that is the case, then we shouldn't have to pay a big premium over the shipped cost, since we are taking on the entire risk.

I think getting part of the money helps the dealer guarantee that at least 100K - 200K or so primers are already sold before they are shipped.

With the current state of primer supply, the dealer can unload the rest of the primers faster than Biden can kiss a little girl.
 
Mountain said:
If it helps seal the deal, I'll take the leftover 75 to keep that full box economy of scale.

Fronting $3500 to someone on an anonymous forum with other unknown parties involved with the transaction? LOL- no. No offense to the person who organizes this, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes either. Nice idea to help, however.
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Tho OP is anything but “anonymous”.
 
Now I am not in need of primers, but I do now that SP primers are nearly impossible to get.

If it was this easy to get primers, wouldn't somebody like Midway or Powder Valley etc step up and benefit/profit ?

I would imagine a large distributor could sell millions of primers right now in this climate at double the normal price.
 
Probably it’s not easy, it’s most likely a connection this guy has with another guy who can possibly make something happen under the right circumstances..

think Kraft flying in 1 million face masks during scamdemic phase 1. Except this would be way better.
 
Mountain said:
If it helps seal the deal, I'll take the leftover 75 to keep that full box economy of scale.

Fronting $3500 to someone on an anonymous forum with other unknown parties involved with the transaction? LOL- no. No offense to the person who organizes this, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes either. Nice idea to help, however.
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The primer source will be known to the buyer, and (s)he/it will deal direct, not through me. I will make the introduction then you work it out.

It is customary in buy situations to pay in advance unless the vendor is extending credit. The company I work with on this does not have an open account with the manufacturer, but does have a very good relationship. The downside is that the payment is "non-recourse" - you can't do this deal by credit card.

If I could get "in stock, credit card accepted" or "cash and carry" pickup, I would. This is the best I could do.

If it was this easy to get primers, wouldn't somebody like Midway or Powder Valley etc step up and benefit/profit ?
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Now you understand why I am circumspect regarding details. I think the only reason this works is because this particular ammo company had a good relationship in place before the shortage. I also suspect he would stop taking phone calls if he got a hundred or so calls from NES people to ask questions but not cough up $17K plus.

This is also why I recommend paying his 10% rather than trying to set up ones own import deal.

While I am not a dealer, I dont think a dealer needs to get 100% of the money upfront. If that is the case, then we shouldn't have to pay a big premium over the shipped cost, since we are taking on the entire risk.
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If you want a small spread, get the $17K in hand from buyers and either get it yourself and distribute them (legally risk in MA, probably not in NH), or approach dealers asking them to handle a transfer for a fee. It would only be $2 a thousand if you found a dealer willing to do it for $1000 flat rate for the minimum order of 500K.

If you want the dealer to handle distribution, be prepared to pay for that service.

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I just got a report from a contact in the European competitive shooting community that says "this brand is fine", though one reported that he considers the brand fine, but personally uses American brands.

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I am beginning to think the only way this will happen is if someone steps forward to run a group buy, collect the money, and either handle it out of NH or finds a dealer who will let people pick up individual boxes from a shop. Even a modest $5 per K pickup fee would net the dealer $5000.
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
The primer source will be known to the buyer, and (s)he/it will deal direct, not through me. I will make the introduction then you work it out.

It is customary in buy situations to pay in advance unless the vendor is extending credit. The company I work with on this does not have an open account with the manufacturer, but does have a very good relationship. The downside is that the payment is "non-recourse" - you can't do this deal by credit card.

If I could get "in stock, credit card accepted" or "cash and carry" pickup, I would. This is the best I could do.


Now you understand why I am circumspect regarding details. I think the only reason this works is because this particular ammo company had a good relationship in place before the shortage. I also suspect he would stop taking phone calls if he got a hundred or so calls from NES people to ask questions but not cough up $17K plus.

This is also why I recommend paying his 10% rather than trying to set up ones own import deal.


If you want a small spread, get the $17K in hand from buyers and either get it yourself and distribute them (legally risk in MA, probably not in NH), or approach dealers asking them to handle a transfer for a fee. It would only be $2 a thousand if you found a dealer willing to do it for $1000 flat rate for the minimum order of 500K.

If you want the dealer to handle distribution, be prepared to pay for that service.

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I just got a report from a contact in the European competitive shooting community that says "this brand is fine", though one reported that he considers the brand fine, but personally uses American brands.

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I am beginning to think the only way this will happen is if someone steps forward to run a group buy, collect the money, and either handle it out of NH or finds a dealer who will let people pick up individual boxes from a shop. Even a modest $5 per K pickup fee would net the dealer $5000.
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I understand what you are saying...But seriously, there are people that have a million connections overseas that have been in wholesale importation of ammo, primers and powder for decades...Now I am to believe that YOU have connections they don't ? Like all these importers/distributors just sitting there with money in hand and hundreds of thousands of dollars in the pipeline waiting for primers, and this one manufacturer is NOT selling to established importers, but to some guy and a random middleman on a New England firearms website ?

To be honest, it sounds like some Euro is taking you for a ride(middle man assuming no risk) in the hopes of getting a bunch of money for a scarce product and no way to recoup any money invested if it fails.

All that being said, I am still in for 100-125 primers once distribution happens.
 
Greg said:
Now I am to believe that YOU have connections they don't ?
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I have no idea why the biggies aren't bringing these in. It is indeed something I have wondered about.

It's not like the primer manufacturer is small, hard to find, or not mentioned in the trade press.

I do not have any direct connection. A friend runs a small ammo company and has just received his first bulk order from this manufacturer. Sure, it is possible that a Euro company with a half billion $ in sales and thousands of employees is running a scam, including filling the first order as a decoy move, but I doubt it.

I do know the person who is doing the ordering, and have known and worked on shooting related projects with his father for decades.

To be honest, it sounds like some Euro is taking you for a ride(middle man assuming no risk) in the hopes of getting a bunch of money for a scarce product and no way to recoup any money invested if it fails.
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I am not a middleman in this deal. Anyone buying would deal with the importer. I believe the ammo company is dealing directly with the manufacturer, but will double check on that to be sure.
 
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Greg said:
I understand what you are saying...But seriously, there are people that have a million connections overseas that have been in wholesale importation of ammo, primers and powder for decades...Now I am to believe that YOU have connections they don't?
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They probably do, and they'll get them in the same 2-3 months that anyone taking this offer would. In the current world that's a long, long time, and anybody running a retail business understands that they are taking a risk at tying up capital in what might end up being overpriced stock they can't move at a profit.

It feels kinda like the group buy of AR LPKs that happened a while back during one of the various scares. Somebody had a connection at RRA and promised LPKs at what was the prevailing price at the time ($65+shipping I think) but with a long lead time, and everything came through but by the time they were delivered it was old news and all the usual mail-order places were significantly cheaper. I was in that group buy and have no complaints (they don't go bad!), but if it had been a backorder from one of the usual places I'd have long since canceled.
 
I suspect this is a higher priced supplier. Million primer quantities are $31/K which seems high given retail markups needed for businesses to succeed. That could explain why they are not a preferred vendor during normal times. The buyer of the 1M who just paid this morning is getting them to use, not to sell, so price fluctuation risk is minimal for him.
 
amb said:
They probably do, and they'll get them in the same 2-3 months that anyone taking this offer would. In the current world that's a long, long time, and anybody running a retail business understands that they are taking a risk at tying up capital in what might end up being overpriced stock they can't move at a profit.
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Excellent point. The big risk is a shop could pay $33.00*/k for primers of a decent, but not well known in the US, European brand and be stuck with a large inventory when the old standbys of Winchester, Federal and CCI become available. Since those are about $38 from mail order vendors (when they have them), it would mean discounting the "unfamiliar brand" to a price at or below cost, incurring not only the hassle of fulfilling these "loss minimization" orders, but the opportunity cost of the profitable US brand products such sales would cannabalize.

The spread when selling these at current mail order prices would only be 15%, not including the cost of shipping from the landing location to the destination (runs about $700/million to ship halfway across the US). One common mistake newcomers make in the mail order business is underestimating the margin they need to cover staff, facilities, insurance, founders trips to Aruba, food and vet care for the shop dog, etc. It's not 15% except perhaps on some big ticket items.

So, the "unnamed firms" with connections that dwarf mine would be ordering these if their mission was to get primers into the hands of reloaders. But, that is not the mission. The mission is to make a profit while keeping customers happy enough to come back for more.

I am now waiting to see if I become hero or individual to an individual who ordered 1M primers (for use, not resale).

* - I am assuming the "big boys" would not need to pay a US contact a 10% brokerage fee
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
It's $17k per type of primer. That's huge cash to hobby/mill style dealers, and real cash to a full time stocking shop.

If someone can get enough prepayment for the dealer to break even, and handle the accounting for individual orders, it should not be hard to find someone to handle it.
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You need to talk to Jim @ Shooters Outpost, he'd be the one of the few with stones/capital to make any use out of this. The rest are too small to care or don't actively court reloaders. Maybe shooting supply. (The folks that got pushed out of MA gun shows). Maybe Glenns reloading? That's basically it. Market doesn't exist elsewhere.
 
Cuz said:
Roger that. Can someone tell me how much volume and weight 500k primers is?
Would they all fit in the back of a Ford F150 pickup? Or would you need to rent a small U-Haul box truck?
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I'm pretty certain you can't just throw half a million explosive primers in a truck and drive down the road with them. That would seem to be a hazmat/explosive permit & placard situation.

Just like there's a limit on how much booze you can transport in a vehicle at one time.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
With the current state of primer supply, the dealer can unload the rest of the primers faster than Biden can kiss a little girl.
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The problem is 95% of FFLs are not set up to act as a hazmat shipper. (This is a "thing" it's not just a fee you pay UPS or whoever. ) So said dealer would have to deliver/orchestrate.
 
drgrant said:
You need to talk to Jim @ Shooters Outpost, he'd be the one of the few with stones/capital to make any use out of this. The rest are too small to care or don't actively court reloaders. Maybe shooting supply. (The folks that got pushed out of MA gun shows). Maybe Glenns reloading? That's basically it. Market doesn't exist elsewhere.
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Nope, I am not soliciting beyond mentioning this on NES.
 
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hv55maxx said:
did this ever materialize?
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In reference to the order I was arranging, not the CCI shotshell opportunity very recently posted:

A friend of mine ordered 1M SPP for use in his operation (yes, he sent in $38K), and the import permit was just approved, and are now awaiting the German export permit. I will post a photo of the primers and perhaps a shop dog or three when they arrive, which is probably about 60 days out at this point.

I have a query in as to when the window to add to an order opens again. My source adds to orders for his operation so there are occasional opportunities to get on the train.
 
Annoyed .... promised the 21st, "production delay but it will be in our next run". I don't think it went south (they have delivered before), but it reminds me of what my father used to say - "I'd rather owe it to you than cheat you out of it".
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Annoyed .... promised the 21st, "production delay but it will be in our next run". I don't think it went south (they have delivered before), but it reminds me of what my father used to say - "I'd rather owe it to you than cheat you out of it".
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“In the next run”?
Does that mean they haven’t been made yet when they were supposed to be delivered?
 
steve8140 said:
“In the next run”?
Does that mean they haven’t been made yet when they were supposed to be delivered?
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Basically. They supposedly were in "last months production". Time will tell when they show up.

Word is that primers continue to be readily available at the consumer level in both Europe and South East Asia. Not sure about down under.
 
Greg said:
I understand what you are saying...But seriously, there are people that have a million connections overseas that have been in wholesale importation of ammo, primers and powder for decades...Now I am to believe that YOU have connections they don't ? Like all these importers/distributors just sitting there with money in hand and hundreds of thousands of dollars in the pipeline waiting for primers, and this one manufacturer is NOT selling to established importers, but to some guy and a random middleman on a New England firearms website ?

To be honest, it sounds like some Euro is taking you for a ride(middle man assuming no risk) in the hopes of getting a bunch of money for a scarce product and no way to recoup any money invested if it fails.

All that being said, I am still in for 100-125 primers once distribution happens.
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The short answer to your question is yes. This is Sara guarding a friend's stash of 1M SPPs that arrived at Logan last week and are now behind an out of state compound. Unfortunately, he does not have a Hazmat shipping contract so my cut of the action is zero.

There is another recipient of an order, but no I will NOT mention the entity involved other than someone in MA is very happy this week.

No, there is not another order going out immediately. This manufacturer is quoting 2022 delivery and my contact has the stash he needed which is what motivated the order.

And yes, as expected, this took longer than expected, and there were regular progress updates from the manufacturer and domestic contact.
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