If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
i did not have chamber issues with my guns thankfully, yet - i have now 3 in .223 and all eat same stuff just fine.had never heard of small base sizing die
I have one for converting 223 to 300 AAC - likely not needed but some headstamps don't drop in the gauge if I use my Lee sizing dieLoaded thousands with Varget and CFE223. Using CFE primarily now. Had issues with cases getting stuck in my Saint and I had never heard of small base sizing die, so after a friend mentioned, I picked one up. I haven’t loaded any using it but wondering if anyone else had this issue. Same rounds ran great in my other ARs.
I only use lakecity brass for .300 blackout. Has worked 100%I have one for converting 223 to 300 AAC - likely not needed but some headstamps don't drop in the gauge if I use my Lee sizing die
Not all reloading dies are the same or chambers for that matter. You may need to use a comparator to check how tight the case is in the chamber and push your shoulder back a bit. I have done this with success.Loaded thousands with Varget and CFE223. Using CFE primarily now. Had issues with cases getting stuck in my Saint and I had never heard of small base sizing die, so after a friend mentioned, I picked one up. I haven’t loaded any using it but wondering if anyone else had this issue. Same rounds ran great in my other ARs.
I think the Springfield is definitely a tight chamber. I’m gonna load a few with the small base sizer and see how they do. If they cycle I’ll be happy.Not all reloading dies are the same or chambers for that matter. You may need to use a comparator to check how tight the case is in the chamber and push your shoulder back a bit. I have done this with success.
I had the same issue many, many years ago and did the small base dies. For me it was pushing back the shoulder a bit, not the sb dies. A headspace comparator IMHO is essential for many reasons.I think the Springfield is definitely a tight chamber. I’m gonna load a few with the small base sizer and see how they do. If they cycle I’ll be happy.
i was told at a time to buy a set of those, and do not regret it. they last a lifetime, and, yes, the full size die needs to be carefully adjusted to push a shoulder back just as much as needed, so brass gets flush with the case cage. i use them for both case length control - trimming length - and for the shoulder push.A headspace comparator IMHO is essential for many reasons.
BTW I use a designated die sets for a specific rifle for best accuracy within a given caliber.
Well, 4064 can be problematic, but RE15, Varget, 4895, 8208, etc all work fine.There are so many powders that work well in 223, I hesitate to pick one but I have found that stick powders don't flow well through that tiny neck. I use ball powder in 223/5.56.
That and the wonky powder measure metering of stick powders for such a small volume. I'm looking for SD's in the single digits and ES's in the mid to low teens when load developing. Even Varget, which is a short stick, makes that challenging to achieve.There are so many powders that work well in 223, I hesitate to pick one but I have found that stick powders don't flow well through that tiny neck. I use ball powder in 223/5.56.
Love hate with ball powder. Meters easily, but even if I nail the charge weights case to case by throwing low and trickling up, seems like the SDs usually aren't great compared to what I can get with extruded powders.That and the wonky powder measure metering of stick powders for such a small volume. I'm looking for SD's in the single digits and ES's in the mid to low teens when load developing. Even Varget, which is a short stick, makes that challenging to achieve.
I get my most consistent larger caliber loads with Varget but in .223 to 6mm ARC my most consistent loads are with Benchmark and 2520 (ball powders).Love hate with ball powder. Meters easily, but even if I nail the charge weights case to case by throwing low and trickling up, seems like the SDs usually aren't great compared to what I can get with extruded powders.
Practical accuracy... if I'm just trying to knock around some steel targets or blow up water bottles at 100 yards or I'm working on my rifle manipulation mostly, ball powder is easy to load on a progressive and 2 moa is fine. If I'm trying to make one hole in a target or shoot golf balls at 100 yards, I'm probably going for extruded powder and trickling each charge.
Best I've done with 2520 is with a Sierra 69g SMK at 25fps SD. With IMR3031 and a Hornady 75g BTHP Match I got down to 5 fps SD which is the lowest SD I've achieved so far. I've recently started playing with H335 and when I get near the top of the load data it seems to settle in around high teens SD.I get my most consistent larger caliber loads with Varget but in .223 to 6mm ARC my most consistent loads are with Benchmark and 2520 (ball powders).
I won a silver medal at Camp Perry Nationals in the 'Modern Military' games match via 2520 loads for my self built BULA M14. I forget the chrony data, but accuracy is amazing for a semi auto. I shot a perfect score in slow prone and a 98/100 in rapids at that match. My favorite 6mm ARC load also uses 2520 and gets S-D 4.8 and ES 11.Best I've done with 2520 is with a Sierra 69g SMK at 25fps SD. With IMR3031 and a Hornady 75g BTHP Match I got down to 5 fps SD which is the lowest SD I've achieved so far. I've recently started playing with H335 and when I get near the top of the load data it seems to settle in around high teens SD.
2520 seemed to have an occasional flyer which could certainly have been me, but otherwise I was running about a 0.8-0.9" group out of a Tikka. I wasn't paying close enough attention to whether there was correlation between the extremely fast or slow shots and those that went wide.
My best groups are about 0.7" and are with IMR3031. Haven't tried Benchmark yet but I'm keeing an eye out for that, H322, and IMR8208.
I am relatively new to 223 loading though and only shoot recreationally, not in matches.
I'm going to say your opinion on this matter carries more weight than mine.I won a silver medal at Camp Perry Nationals in the 'Modern Military' games match via 2520 loads for my self built BULA M14. I forget the chrony data, but accuracy is amazing for a semi auto. I shot a perfect score in slow prone and a 98/100 in rapids at that match. My favorite 6mm ARC load also uses 2520 and gets S-D 4.8 and ES 11.
I think my best .223 loads were ~ SD 7 ES 13 via Benchmark, BR primers, and 77 SMK's. Groups close to 1/2 MOA, give or take.
Not necessarily. Your results with 3031 are excellent, so I'd say there are opportunities to learn from each other. Also I like how you simply state where you have been successful and share the details. Such is the stuff of a great thread.I'm going to say your opinion on this matter carries more weight than mine.
The man who has given me the best info on guns , loads and skill building, well lets just say I have never seen him shoot.Not necessarily. Your results with 3031 are excellent, so I'd say there are opportunities to learn from each other. Also I like how you simply state where you have been successful and share the details. Such is the stuff of a great thread.
I will say this- competition does foster statistically significant claims regarding what loads are accurate. Assuming the load development work is already done, you're going to get a lot of objective results that are collected under somewhat stressful, 'real world' (LOL matches are pretty much just a game) conditions. That same .308 load I use at Perry has also won some local matches as well as postal matches with scores as high as 100-7X. My .223 loads are used out to 600 yards for high power competition as are my .30-06 loads for vintage sniper competition.
Even those who don't compete can make excellent contributions via data and posted targets. Some of those folks are in this thread.
On the flip side are those who slam what one is doing and/or boast superior results w/o data to back up their claim. Depending on my mood at times I can be a bit rough on those guys, though sometimes they don't figure it out if my digs are subtle.
That's Old 'S', correct? You've mentioned some interesting stuff from him.The man who has given me the best info on guns , loads and skill building, well lets just say I have never seen him shoot.
But boy if you question his “data” be prepared for a lesson.
Guys a walking volume of gun history , interior and exterior balistics. He said he was a private contractor for Aberdeen testing grounds his claim to job type.
I test the tests that prove the tests of whats being tested.
NES has been a great source if info for me. Sometimes walking the gauntlet to get it though.
Merry Christmas
Kids are finally getting up
i make and sell lubrication adapter for dillon 650/750 that lets you use dry cases right out of a tumbler. makes life an enormously much simpler.
i run a routine in 2 cycles - first i tumble shot brass, then i run it in batch - dillon toolhead has a full size die only in 1st station to deprime and then prime. primed cases are then stored until i get a desire to load them.
second toolhead is set with powder measure, bullet feeder die i make and a bullet seater die. can also run that as a batch, or run it measuring each drop, if i feel like it.
same is done for all calibers i deal with, and it works very well this way on a 750.
It took me great pain but I made standard Dillon measures to drop within .2-.3 gr accuracy in a batch. Mostly within.2.I can vouch for Paul73's lubricating thingiemajigie - I have it and it works well with any caliber- makes sizing really smooth and the price is also right.
On loading 223 - make sure your metering device is in perfect shape and is very consistent- remember that inconsistencies in metering are measured in percents... so 5% more powder in 9mm case is vastly less dangerous than 5% more powder in a 223 case. Also, keep in mind that if you double charge because of the small case neck you probably will not see it... so yeah- make sure your metering is reliable and on point...
What I found for myself- it has to be some acceptable balance between amount of time you dedicate to case prep and loading compared to actual shooting.That's Old 'S', correct? You've mentioned some interesting stuff from him.
There's a little bit of nonsense to filter out, but generally the internet has been very beneficial for reloaders. All the book data of the old days plus many iterations for various applications, barrel lengths, dif types of actions, etc. Probably one of the bigger negatives is sorting through all the chaff to find a couple good loads that work for your particular gun. I keep a small notebook with all my pet loads plus an alternative or two. In some cases, I've migrated from my standard to something else.
Merry Christmas!
Yes and the amount of 3 ring binders filled with all sorts if testing and engineering he pulls out are crazy.That's Old 'S', correct? You've mentioned some interesting stuff from him.
There's a little bit of nonsense to filter out, but generally the internet has been very beneficial for reloaders. All the book data of the old days plus many iterations for various applications, barrel lengths, dif types of actions, etc. Probably one of the bigger negatives is sorting through all the chaff to find a couple good loads that work for your particular gun. I keep a small notebook with all my pet loads plus an alternative or two. In some cases, I've migrated from my standard to something else.
Merry Christmas!
What did you have to do to the Dillon powder measure to gain consistency?It took me great pain but I made standard Dillon measures to drop within .2-.3 gr accuracy in a batch. Mostly within.2.
I shot last batch loaded 6.5cm with 140gr noslers and best SD was around 12, which is ok. Batch loaded .223 are closer to 16-20 usually. Individually measured are at 5-7.
But I cannot make myself to hand load and measure a batch of 400
I do similar prep for cases, though I have started annealing. I was highly resistant to annealing for many years, given that it was either a PITA to do on the cheap or required very expensive equipment. Once I found the 'Ugly Annealer' (thread link below) I am annealing as soon as 1 or two times fired from new. I am feeling a much more consistent force when sizing and the chrony results are statistically better. I'm getting more loads into the single SD and low to mid teens for ES. I am now one of the annealing koolaid drinkers.What I found for myself- it has to be some acceptable balance between amount of time you dedicate to case prep and loading compared to actual shooting.
We had plenty of those conversations in loading forum, and I would say - I now separate all my brass between new and pre- prepared. I do not anneal, as I load hot and usually it will not last more that 5 cycles, and I see no change in case shoulder in 5 fires.
First prep is painful, I set a full size die, run a 100 cases to deprime and size, then it goes to drill mounted trimmer, then I use a punch to do primer hole - do it by a feel, then one rotation of cone cutter to smooth bullet entrance edge then brass brush. Last step is a rotation of other tool on edge of primer pocket.
Worst part is pressing case into trimmer- need good hand protection or after 100 cases it will get blisters. I usually run a 1000 like that, then keep rotating that set until it starts spitting out primers when fired, once case does it - it goes to garbage bin.
Sounds tedious but in reality it is easier to do by hand