Rifle in trunk

Philly3458

Philly3458

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Anyone in Ma keep a long gun in the trunk full time? Just curious as a SHTF back up?


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I do not but, have been seriously thinking of getting a full time lockable hold down rack in my truck for my AR. I need to see what the laws are first as to not upset the ministry here in MA.

StevensMarksman
 
For [thread=95897]non-residents who don't want to go through the LTC inquisition[/thread], this is the only way to legally have a firearm when traveling to MA, just need to make sure you have a ban-compliant long arms with 10-round magazines.
Chapter 140 Section 129C (h) said:
Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
Click to expand...
I prefer to just drive non-stop across the state (I refuel in Rhode Island) so I can rely on FOPA, but sometimes I need to visit friends who have not yet escaped, etc.
 
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My understanding is as long as gun is unloaded in a locked container (trunk) you are legally compliant.


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Kevin_NH said:
For [thread=95897]non-residents who don't want to go through the LTC inquisition[/thread], this is the only way to legally have a firearm when traveling into MA, just need to make sure you have a ban-compliant long arms with 10-round magazines.
Click to expand...

I believe you can have pre-ban 30 round AR mags.


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- - - Updated - - -

Also cite for that bullshit unloaded law? Nevermind Kevin. So as a MA resident I'm all set. Ugh my brain.
 
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This would be nice but it is too expensive to just leave it in the trunk... what if the car got stolen?
bigcopilotred11.jpg
 
I keep a bolt action single shot scoped .22lr in the vehicle at all times. Trigger locked, cased. Usually a few hundred rounds sitting under my seat.
 
45collector said:
I keep a bolt action single shot scoped .22lr in the vehicle at all times. Trigger locked, cased. Usually a few hundred rounds sitting under my seat.
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Mass wants your ammo locked up when not in use. I'd suggest you put it in the case with the rifle, or in the trunk.

From http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/ammostorage.html
"small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use."

This comes from fire prevention regulations, not the gun laws.
 
coachjpg said:
Mass wants your ammo locked up when not in use. I'd suggest you put it in the case with the rifle, or in the trunk.

From http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/ammostorage.html
"small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use."

This comes from fire prevention regulations, not the gun laws.
Click to expand...

That's for in-home storage. There is no law of any kind in MA that says you need to keep ammo locked up, or in original containers, while it's in your vehicle.
 
45collector said:
That's for in-home storage. There is no law of any kind in MA that says you need to keep ammo locked up, or in original containers, while it's in your vehicle.
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The storage law applies to ammo stored "in a building or structure". If you want to argue that a car is not a structure, feel free. I read it the way GOAL states it, keep your ammo locked up when not in use.

For firearms, I was taught that if you're in your vehicle with guns, you're transporting them. If you leave your vehicle with guns in it, you're storing them in your vehicle. Transportation and storage laws are different, so the distinction can matter. I just treat ammo storage and transportation the same way. If I leave it in the car, I'm storing it there, and I lock it up.

This is not clearly spelled out in the laws, as with so many other points. I have personal experience where a kid with an FID was pulled over for unrelated stupidity, and the cops found 9mm rounds in the trunk. They locked him up for a few hours while they sorted it out. He took a nap. The detectives got into heated arguments as to whether "locked in the trunk" met the requirements for keeping ammo locked up when not in use. They called the lawyers and found that, yes, locked in the trunk meets the requirements for locking up your ammo when not in use. And yes, an FID gave the kid the right to possess pistol ammo. They eventually turned him loose and gave the kid his ammo back.

I'm not in favor of these laws. I'm not impressed with the clarity with which they're written. I just try to understand and comply with them, and to help others do the same. I teach my shooters and students to keep their ammo locked up when not in use.

IANAL. GOAL has pointers to all the relevant laws.
 
coachjpg said:
The storage law applies to ammo stored "in a building or structure". If you want to argue that a car is not a structure, feel free. I read it the way GOAL states it, keep your ammo locked up when not in use.

For firearms, I was taught that if you're in your vehicle with guns, you're transporting them. If you leave your vehicle with guns in it, you're storing them in your vehicle. Transportation and storage laws are different, so the distinction can matter. I just treat ammo storage and transportation the same way. If I leave it in the car, I'm storing it there, and I lock it up.

This is not clearly spelled out in the laws, as with so many other points. I have personal experience where a kid with an FID was pulled over for unrelated stupidity, and the cops found 9mm rounds in the trunk. They locked him up for a few hours while they sorted it out. He took a nap. The detectives got into heated arguments as to whether "locked in the trunk" met the requirements for keeping ammo locked up when not in use. They called the lawyers and found that, yes, locked in the trunk meets the requirements for locking up your ammo when not in use. And yes, an FID gave the kid the right to possess pistol ammo. They eventually turned him loose and gave the kid his ammo back.

I'm not in favor of these laws. I'm not impressed with the clarity with which they're written. I just try to understand and comply with them, and to help others do the same. I teach my shooters and students to keep their ammo locked up when not in use.

IANAL. GOAL has pointers to all the relevant laws.
Click to expand...

I would NOT rely on GOAL's info wrt MGL or CMRs, there are too many items that are wrong. In this case, it is a "good idea" to keep ammo "secured" when not in use, and if there are unlicensed people in the house it indeed must be locked up so they have no access. On the other hand, if one has a powder/ammo permit, there is NO requirement in the CMR to keep your ammo locked up (but see my caution wrt unlicensed people). http://goal.org/masslawpages/ammostorage.html

You are correct that the CMR is all about building storage and has nothing to do with MV transportation. MGL also has no specific requirements wrt transporting ammo other than preventing unlicensed access.
 
Thanks for helping clarify all this.

Most of us operate under 527 CMR 13.04(1), where we own little enough ammo to not require a permit. 527 CMR 13.04(1)(e) says we have to keep it locked up when not in use. 13.01(1) says this applies to intrastate transportation, storage and use. I've not been to court on this point, but I did have a series of very intense conversations with local LEOs who were adamant that ammo needs to be locked up in your car, unless you're carrying it with an LTC. I know LEOs are often wrong, but 527 CMR 13 does seem to say they're right. I eventually convinced them that "locked in the trunk" was acceptable for storing and transporting ammo in a car, and that resolved the issue.

It really bothers me that we're struggling with interpretation of an obscure fire safety regulations in order to legally exercise our civil rights. It shouldn't be this hard to figure out the rules.
 
coachjpg said:
Thanks for helping clarify all this.

Most of us operate under 527 CMR 13.04(1), where we own little enough ammo to not require a permit. 527 CMR 13.04(1)(e) says we have to keep it locked up when not in use. 13.01(1) says this applies to intrastate transportation, storage and use. I've not been to court on this point, but I did have a series of very intense conversations with local LEOs who were adamant that ammo needs to be locked up in your car, unless you're carrying it with an LTC. I know LEOs are often wrong, but 527 CMR 13 does seem to say they're right. I eventually convinced them that "locked in the trunk" was acceptable for storing and transporting ammo in a car, and that resolved the issue.

It really bothers me that we're struggling with interpretation of an obscure fire safety regulations in order to legally exercise our civil rights. It shouldn't be this hard to figure out the rules.
Click to expand...

Having read 13.01 (1), I concede that it does indeed include transportation. When I discussed this some time ago with my Fire Chief he had told me that 527 CMR 13 did NOT apply to transportation. Hmmm!

However, police have no authority to enforce 527 CMR 13, only the local fire chief/state fire marshal. I've even heard this stated clearly by the so-called LE expert on MA gun laws, numerous times. I also had my fire chief tell me that this CMR is strictly up to him to enforce and not the police.

Now what happens in court or what police do can indeed be another story altogether.
 
The purpose of 527 CMR 13 is fire safety, and I can understand that the Fire Chief feels it's not a police matter. The penalty for violation of the regulation is up to $1K or 1 year in jail, which sounds like a Law Enforcement matter. The LEOs in our area absolutely feel like it's their job to enforce this. I've not asked the Fire Chief about it.

When I had my encounter, it never occurred to me to tell the LEOs they have no jurisdiction over how someone with an FID secures ammo in a vehicle. I focused on convincing them that "locked in a trunk" complied with the 527 CMR 13 requirements. The Chief Detective was very loud and very adamant that this was not the case. They sought legal council, learned he was wrong, and eventually dropped the issue and returned the ammo.

So once again, we have differences between what the law says and what's actually enforced, and multiple conflicting authoritative opinions as to what the law means. I find this highly discouraging.
 
coachjpg said:
The purpose of 527 CMR 13 is fire safety, and I can understand that the Fire Chief feels it's not a police matter. The penalty for violation of the regulation is up to $1K or 1 year in jail, which sounds like a Law Enforcement matter. The LEOs in our area absolutely feel like it's their job to enforce this. I've not asked the Fire Chief about it.

When I had my encounter, it never occurred to me to tell the LEOs they have no jurisdiction over how someone with an FID secures ammo in a vehicle. I focused on convincing them that "locked in a trunk" complied with the 527 CMR 13 requirements. The Chief Detective was very loud and very adamant that this was not the case. They sought legal council, learned he was wrong, and eventually dropped the issue and returned the ammo.

So once again, we have differences between what the law says and what's actually enforced, and multiple conflicting authoritative opinions as to what the law means. I find this highly discouraging.
Click to expand...

I find this typical of MA!

I've also learned that when a LEO is loud and adamant about something, he's usually wrong and uses the overwhelming noise and belligerence to cover himself! I once walked into my PD in the middle of a boisterous and belligerent officer pronouncing that a "Camp Bus" had no right to use flashing red lights to pick up kids, the law didn't apply and he was proud that he blew by the bus while kids were boarding. I knew enough that he'd never listen to reason, least of all from a PT PO, so I kept my mouth shut but later that day called my C. 90 police academy instructor (very high ranking RMV LEO at that time) and asked him . . . School Bus/Camp Bus is all the same with flashing lights on an yellow school bus!
 
Len-2A Training said:
I find this typical of MA!

I've also learned that when a LEO is loud and adamant about something, he's usually wrong and uses the overwhelming noise and belligerence to cover himself! I once walked into my PD in the middle of a boisterous and belligerent officer pronouncing that a "Camp Bus" had no right to use flashing red lights to pick up kids, the law didn't apply and he was proud that he blew by the bus while kids were boarding. I knew enough that he'd never listen to reason, least of all from a PT PO, so I kept my mouth shut but later that day called my C. 90 police academy instructor (very high ranking RMV LEO at that time) and asked him . . . School Bus/Camp Bus is all the same with flashing lights on an yellow school bus!
Click to expand...
The one time it is actually truly for the children and this bozo blows by a bus on loading children. Great that his job is to uphold the law, and he doesn't even know what it is. It is frigging common sense. What are camp children worth less than school children. Jeebus.
 
I would NOT rely on GOAL's info wrt MGL or CMRs, there are too many items that are wrong.
Click to expand...
Some laws are simple enough that I don't need GOAL to interpret them for me.

As a non-resident, I'm usually relying on FOPA, and if not (if I need to make a stop in MA), I follow the letter of the law, Chapter 140 Section 129C (h):
Ch 140 §129C said:
(h) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case
Click to expand...
I'll eventually need to upgrade my storage case, not because of compliance with the law, but because I want to go with something more resistant to exposure to moisture, salt, etc.
 
The Sub2000 is a great trunk gun. I put mine up on Gun Broker in the spring of 2013 with a reserve price of $350 and the crazies bid it up to $850. Its about time to buy another for $300. Part of the appeal of the Sub 2k is that its cheap and ugly.

Although I generally don't carry a gun in the car that doesn't come out with me when I park. I have an ethical issue with leaving a gun in a car under almost all but the most secure conditions. Thats me. As it is, my car has a trunk that is totally secure as far as remote trunk release and fold down rear seat, when the car is locked. The only way in is to use a crow bar.




Don

414-355-SUB2K_7.jpg
 
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