Rifle in trunk

[dcmdon]

I keep a bolt action single shot scoped .22lr in the vehicle at all times. Trigger locked, cased. Usually a few hundred rounds sitting under my seat.

trigger lock is pointless for transport.

 

[Bob P]

I would NOT rely on GOAL's info wrt MGL or CMRs, there are too many items that are wrong. In this case, it is a "good idea" to keep ammo "secured" when not in use, and if there are unlicensed people in the house it indeed must be locked up so they have no access. On the other hand, if one has a powder/ammo permit, there is NO requirement in the CMR to keep your ammo locked up (but see my caution wrt unlicensed people). http://goal.org/masslawpages/ammostorage.html

You are correct that the CMR is all about building storage and has nothing to do with MV transportation. MGL also has no specific requirements wrt transporting ammo other than preventing unlicensed access.

Can you please specify what info is 'wrong' and your source for the alternate interpretation?

 

[warwickben]

The Sub2000 is a great trunk gun. I put mine up on Gun Broker in the spring of 2013 with a reserve price of $350 and the crazies bid it up to $850. Its about time to buy another for $300. Part of the appeal of the Sub 2k is that its cheap and ugly.

Although I generally don't carry a gun in the car that doesn't come out with me when I park. I have an ethical issue with leaving a gun in a car under almost all but the most secure conditions. Thats me. As it is, my car has a trunk that is totally secure as far as remote trunk release and fold down rear seat, when the car is locked. The only way in is to use a crow bar.




Don

I just do to want to deal with the what if my car gets stolen .
I figure if your gonna have a pistol carbine in your trunk a mech tech upper wouldn't be bad idea.if u carry a glock or a 1911.
More the glock since the slide comes off faster.
But if your car gets stolen . You don't have a stolen gun.

 

[45collector]

trigger lock is pointless for transport.

I know that. When I leave the vehicle, it becomes storage.

 

[Len-2A Training]

If the case is locked, you are covered for both transportation and storage.

 

[dcmdon]

Again, the MA gun owner's obsession with trigger locks rears its ugly head. Ugh.

- - - Updated - - -

warwikben

Thats a great point. You can make a gun disappear, at least per MA law if you remove the slide.

Don

 

[45collector]

If the case is locked, you are covered for both transportation and storage.

Again, the MA gun owner's obsession with trigger locks rears its ugly head. Ugh.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding on what I'm talking about:

I keep a single shot .22 rifle in the SUV. (no trunk)

The rifle is in a soft-sided case that has no way of being locked securely.

The rifle has a trigger lock on it whether I'm in the vehicle or not.

Trigger lock comes off when I want to go hunting small game or plinking in the woods.

Where is the "obsession" in that? Other than the fact that the trigger lock doesn't need to be on the gun when I'm in the vehicle?

 

[Len-2A Training]

No but what you're doing does not meet MGL for transportation. The case MUST be locked if there is no trunk, period.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

trigger lock is pointless for transport.

What about that?

 

[willbdavis]

No but what you're doing does not meet MGL for transportation. The case MUST be locked if there is no trunk, period.

Amazing how many people I meet who confuse the storage and transportation laws. I can't count the number of times I've seen people arrive at the range and start removing the trigger locks from their guns.

Granted, I blame the stupid laws.

 

[Palladin]

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131C

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

He has a single shot rifle, a 'firearm' under MGL definition is a handgun. There's nothing here stating he cannot put a single shot rifle in a soft case, in the vehicle.

 

[45collector]

No but what you're doing does not meet MGL for transportation. The case MUST be locked if there is no trunk, period.

If it's a large capacity rifle or shotgun, yes. For non-large capacity rifles and shotguns, driving around with the rifle trigger-locked and in a "unlockable" soft-sided case is perfectly legal, is it not?

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

Q: Do I need to lock my non-large capacity rifles and shotguns in a case while transporting them in a vehicle?

A: No. They must be transported unloaded, but are not required to be in a locked case while transporting.

 

[45collector]

Amazing how many people I meet who confuse the storage and transportation laws. I can't count the number of times I've seen people arrive at the range and start removing the trigger locks from their guns.

Granted, I blame the stupid laws.

Trigger locks are absolutely useless in MA when it comes to transporting handguns or high capacity rifles/ shotguns. I'm fully aware of this and I think there has been a lot of confusion in the last few posts regarding what I'm talking about.

 

[namedpipes]

That's for in-home storage. There is no law of any kind in MA that says you need to keep ammo locked up, or in original containers, while it's in your vehicle.

Any quantity limits in the vehicle?

 

[45collector]

Any quantity limits in the vehicle?

LOL this is getting silly. I have no idea on that one, as I've never driven around with more than 10k of centerfire, 10k of rimfire, or 5k of shotgun rounds.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Any quantity limits in the vehicle?

My fire chief told me that >100K rds means you have to be placarded and probably lots of other stuff as well.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I exceeded 10K when I moved East, lucky I took the scenic Green mountain route

Regarding loaded non-large-capacity long arms in a vehicle, MA hunting regulations include a prohibition against loaded rifles and shotguns in vehicles, MGL part I title XIX ch 131 §63. This part of the law appears slightly less restrictive than New Hampshire law.

LOL this is getting silly. I have no idea on that one, as I've never driven around with more than 10k of centerfire, 10k of rimfire, or 5k of shotgun rounds.

Who knows, come on up to the show in Concord, a few stops in Hooksett on the way south, and Voila!

Well, maybe not the rimfire limit -- still having a tough time sourcing rimfire bricks, much less cases.

 

[Christian]

The problem is, in this state at least, there are so many retarded laws/regs that can be interpreted differently by too many people.

The trunk on my car doesn't have a keyhole(I usually keep my cars until the point of repairs cost more than the car is worth) and I'm not sure just how prevalent that practice is these days. I was told by different people at different times that the trunk is both secure and not secure. Secure because it's the trunk, not secure because anyone can walk up and smash the drivers window to either push the trunk release button or smash a back window to open the door and fold the back seats down for trunk access.

I've been told that I can simply toss my firearms in the trunk so long as they have a trigger/cable lock on them and no case/bag. I've also been told they have to be in a case/bag which has locks on them.

I received info on all these possible scenarios from active/retired LEOs, LGS owners/workers, and old timers(who aren't fudds) that have been shooting since way before I was born. I've been given conflicting answers within the same groups on it all so I'll continue to cover my a** and throw locks on everything until I escape. All because of what one LEO is fine with, another LEO may hook me up for.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The problem is, in this state at least, there are so many retarded laws/regs that can be interpreted differently by too many people.

The trunk on my car doesn't have a keyhole(I usually keep my cars until the point of repairs cost more than the car is worth) and I'm not sure just how prevalent that practice is these days. I was told by different people at different times that the trunk is both secure and not secure. Secure because it's the trunk, not secure because anyone can walk up and smash the drivers window to either push the trunk release button or smash a back window to open the door and fold the back seats down for trunk access.

I've been told that I can simply toss my firearms in the trunk so long as they have a trigger/cable lock on them and no case/bag. I've also been told they have to be in a case/bag which has locks on them.

I received info on all these possible scenarios from active/retired LEOs, LGS owners/workers, and old timers(who aren't fudds) that have been shooting since way before I was born. I've been given conflicting answers within the same groups on it all so I'll continue to cover my a** and throw locks on everything until I escape. All because of what one LEO is fine with, another LEO may hook me up for.

Your experience is precisely what motivated me to create my seminar on MA gun laws. The confusion is so bad on storage and transportation requirements that I probably average 10-15 minutes going over this material and the differences in the law. This is all material that is SUPPOSED to be covered in every BFS class (or handed to you in that class) and obviously isn't covered correctly in almost any such class.

 

[CCW]

Your experience is precisely what motivated me to create my seminar on MA gun laws. The confusion is so bad on storage and transportation requirements that I probably average 10-15 minutes going over this material and the differences in the law. This is all material that is SUPPOSED to be covered in every BFS class (or handed to you in that class) and obviously isn't covered correctly in almost any such class.

In many cases it's not that the material isn't being covered. It's that the students in the class aren't tuned in enough to retain what they've been taught. When you have a mandatory training requirement easily 60-70% of the attendees simply don't GAF and don't want to learn. They're only there because they have to be. Don't ask me how I know.......

 

[Len-2A Training]

In many cases it's not that the material isn't being covered. It's that the students in the class aren't tuned in enough to retain what they've been taught. When you have a mandatory training requirement easily 60-70% of the attendees simply don't GAF and don't want to learn. They're only there because they have to be. Don't ask me how I know.......

Although I agree with you, I have heard numerous instructors spew incorrect info wrt storage and transportation in discussions, enough to realize that they don't know what they are talking about either. I was in one such class (Hunter Ed) given by 3 certified DFW instructors and an EPO . . . none of them had a clue and 42 students were given mis-information.

 

[45collector]

Your experience is precisely what motivated me to create my seminar on MA gun laws. The confusion is so bad on storage and transportation requirements that I probably average 10-15 minutes going over this material and the differences in the law. This is all material that is SUPPOSED to be covered in every BFS class (or handed to you in that class) and obviously isn't covered correctly in almost any such class.

So my question regarding the conversation a few pages ago persists...

In your seminar do you teach that all non-large capacity long guns need to be locked in a case in MA during transportation?

 

[Len-2A Training]

So my question regarding the conversation a few pages ago persists...

In your seminar do you teach that all non-large capacity long guns need to be locked in a case in MA during transportation?

No, transportation requires a locked case or locked trunk for ANYTHING other than non-large capacity long guns (and non-guns, BP). However I caution folks that most cops won't know large from non-large capacity long guns and thus it is wiser to treat all guns (other than CCW) the same to avoid confrontations.

I teach that LEGALLY you can mount non-large capacity long guns in a pickup truck rifle rack, just be prepared for a hassle from LE every mile or so. Also I teach that you can throw them on the back seat (no trigger locks, nothing) legally BUT if you get out of the car you are now "storing" them and at least a trigger lock/cable lock is required. If anyone sees them in that condition, again prepare yourself for a hassle by the cops.

 

[45collector]

All good advice for "massprudence".

 

[coachjpg]

The problem is, in this state at least, there are so many retarded laws/regs that can be interpreted differently by too many people.

The laws are both stupid and constantly changing. As a result, the LEOs and everyone else are often out of date. I'm holding off on teaching my next Basic Pistol class while I wait for GOAL to print the updated pamphlet on Mass laws.

Your only reliable source is to read the laws yourself, and/or take a course from a gun-literate lawyer. I've done both, more than once, and I learn new things every time. The relevant stuff is scattered all over the MGL, but GOAL does a good job of providing pointers.

You have to understand that the laws differ depending on whether you're carrying, transporting, or storing. Carrying is under your direct control. On your hip or in your pocket is carrying. In a purse on the passenger seat is a grey area. The cop can decide that is not under your direct control, and bust you for improperly transporting. Yes I know that's stupid and unfair.

MGL Chapter 269 Section 12D
(a) Except as exempted or provided by law, no person shall carry on his person on any public way a loaded rifle or shotgun (b) Except as exempted or provided by law, no person shall carry on his person on any public way an unloaded rifle or shotgun, unless such rifle or shotgun is enclosed in a case.

MGL Chapter 140 Section 131C(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.

MGL Chapter 140 Section 131L. (a) Says lock up your guns when they're stored. I'm told that a gun in a parked car is stored.

527 CMR 13.04(1)(e)Says lock up your ammo when not in use. Authoritative opinions vary widely on exactly what that means.

Remember, these laws change, and any given person is likely to be out of date on some or all points, including a cop.

My take-away from this is, unless you're carrying it concealed, lock your guns in the trunk if you have one, and in a case if you don't. A luggage lock on a fabric case is locked in a case. As I read all this, unloaded non-high-capacity long guns can legally be in an unlocked case in the passenger compartment with you. Everything else needs to be either carried or locked up.

Personally, I prefer to keep everything out of sight in the trunk, if I have a trunk. On a good day, it won't all fit in the trunk and I have to fold down the back seat, so I have to have all handguns and high-cap long guns in locked cases.

If you leave your vehicle with guns and/or ammo in it, you are storing them, so storage rules apply. So you don't need to lock your cased non-high-capacity long gun while transporting, but if you stop somewhere and leave your gun in your vehicle, it has to be locked up for storage (locked case or trigger lock or locked in trunk). You're also storing your ammo, so that needs to be locked up too. Ammo is so expensive now that we'd lock that up anyway...

IANAL. I am gearing up to teach NRA Basic Pistol and the Mass Basic Firearms Safety course, so I've been refreshing my understanding of this mess. I hope this helps, and I hope our lawyers don't find too much to criticize here.

 

[Len-2A Training]

coachjpg, the laws are NOT constantly changing. All that is in the 1998 GCA and hasn't changed since that date. So don't expect GOAL to be updating that.

Police aren't trained in MA gun law, that's why they don't know it. They also don't oftentimes run into it wrt law abiding citizens who may have screwed up. They deal with perps who are doing crimes and thus the charges about guns are very secondary and the first to be dropped.

 

[JGreen]

GOAL is updating both our fact sheets and law booklet. We expect the updated versions to be available within the next month.
The law doesn't change often but we have had several major and significant changes since 1998:
-Grace period restored
-Antiques removed from storage laws
-Reduction in FID card fees for minors
-Definition of loaded muzzle loader

 

[EJFudd]

I keep a single shot .22 rifle in the SUV. (no trunk) The rifle is in a soft-sided case that has no way of being locked securely.

No but what you're doing does not meet MGL for transportation. The case MUST be locked if there is no trunk, period.

He has a single shot rifle, a 'firearm' under MGL definition is a handgun. There's nothing here stating he cannot put a single shot rifle in a soft case, in the vehicle.

In your seminar do you teach that all non-large capacity long guns need to be locked in a case in MA during transportation?

No, transportation requires a locked case or locked trunk for ANYTHING other than non-large capacity long guns (and non-guns, BP). However I caution folks that most cops won't know large from non-large capacity long guns and thus it is wiser to treat all guns (other than CCW) the same to avoid confrontations.

All good advice for "massprudence".

There is a slippery slope here between stating what the law requires and stating one's personal advice for avoiding confrontations with cops who may not understand or even care what the law says. The problem is that one gets repeated so many times and confused for the other... but then we fault members and cops and even instructors for not knowing which is which. There are about a hundred examples of this I could name without even trying hard.

The plain fact is that it is perfectly legal in MA to transport a non-large-capacity long gun unloaded in an unlocked soft-sided case in an SUV. I do it all the time and I do not classify that practice as being risky or in the realm of things I shouldn't do in order to avoid cop confrontations.

It is fine, even advisable, for an instructor to teach BOTH the law AND what he or she considers good practice above and beyond the law about how to stay out of trouble. But it is supremely important when doing so to clearly differentiate which is which.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I mis-read 45collector's post and missed the part where it was a single shot rifle and thus there is no legal requirement to lock it up at all while transporting (but there is a minimum trigger lock requirement when he exits the vehicle.

When I teach I do clearly differentiate between the law and Massprudence.

 

[45collector]

You're also storing your ammo, so that needs to be locked up too. Ammo is so expensive now that we'd lock that up anyway...

Again, do you have a cite for that?

I agree that it's a good idea to lock ammo up if it's stored in your car, but it is not mandatory.