Satisfying "Proof of knowledge of Handgun Safety" for ME permit

[drgrant]

Question for those who have applied for their ME permit....

What exactly does this mean, and how do you satisfy it?

Proof of knowledge of handgun safety. Please see page 6 paragraph (5) of “Laws Relating to Permits to
Carry Concealed Firearms”.

EG, what did you supply with a nonresident application to satisfy this
requirement? Is an active license sufficient, or so I need to get a safety
cert "reconstituted" to apply for an ME license?

-Mike

 

[jeffishness]

Question for those who have applied for their ME permit....

What exactly does this mean, and how do you satisfy it?



EG, what did you supply with a nonresident application to satisfy this
requirement? Is an active license sufficient, or so I need to get a safety
cert "reconstituted" to apply for an ME license?

-Mike

I simply sent in a copy of the NRA Basic Pistol certificate that I used to apply for my LTC, complete with all the Massachusetts logos all over it. They didn't have a problem with that. Not sure if sending in a copy of your LTC instead would work, but you could try emailing them and asking. I got a response back within the same day.

ETA: The person I had gotten in touch with was Sgt. Bill Gomane: [email protected].

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

Maine accepts NRA First Steps however I strongly recommend NRA certified Personal Protection in the Home to all clients.

Many times applicants had to take a class for their first application if they haven't participated in a safety course within the past 5 years.

 

[Tiny207]

Do you know if Sig Sauer Academy Handgun Class would qualify for Maine?

Maine accepts NRA First Steps however I strongly recommend NRA certified Personal Protection in the Home to all clients.

Many times applicants had to take a class for their first application if they haven't participated in a safety course within the past 5 years.

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

Within the past 5 years it may. Sgt. Gomane [email protected] at the Maine State Police will answer that question definitively or your local PD in some municipalities. If your local PD issues or municipal officers they would be the ones to ask.

 

[NinerMaine]

Here is a reference to the law and can be found here, which is a copy of the booklet the MSP give out for CCW:

http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/licenses/CFP Booklet.pdf

Essentially it is not really well defined and the past practices of the MSP, has been to liberally interpret the passage. 15 years ago when I applied I submitted a firearm safety course (not hunter safety) that NJ made me take to hunt muzzle loader in that state. If you are a verteran, then you can meet the requirement through that avenue.

(5) Demonstrates to the issuing authority a knowledge of handgun safety.
The applicant may fully satisfy this requirement by submitting to the issuing
authority, through documentation in accordance with this subparagraph, proof
that the applicant has within 5 years prior to the date of application completed a course that included handgun safety offered by or under the supervision of a federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency or a firearms instructor certified by a private firearms association recognized as knowledgeable in matters of firearms safety by the issuing authority or by the state in which the course was taken. A course completion certificate or other document, or a photocopy, is sufficient if it recites or otherwise demonstrates that the course meets all of the requirements of this subparagraph.

As an alternative way of fully satisfying this requirement, an applicant may
personally demonstrate knowledge of handgun safety to an issuing authority, if the issuing authority is willing to evaluate an applicant's personal demonstration of such knowledge. The issuing authority is not required to offer this 2nd option.

The demonstration of knowledge of handgun safety to the issuing authority
may not be required of any applicant who holds a valid State permit to carry a
concealed firearm as of April 15, 1990 or of any applicant who was or is in any
of the Armed Forces of the United States and has received at least basic firearms training.[/B]

 

[maineguy]

Satisfying this requirement seems to vary widely with the individual town or municipality. When I applied, the local police chief asked if I had a Safe Hunter Certificate or was a member of one of the local gun clubs. He did not ask for proof of either. I got my resident permit in the fall of 08.

The police chief in the next town over requires the completion of a formal course in handgun use and safety.

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

(5) Demonstrates to the issuing authority a knowledge of handgun safety.
The applicant may fully satisfy this requirement by submitting to the issuing
authority, through documentation in accordance with this subparagraph, proof
that the applicant has within 5 years prior to the date of application completed a
course that included handgun safety offered by or under the supervision of a
federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency or a firearms
instructor certified by a private firearms association recognized as
knowledgeable in matters of firearms safety by the issuing authority or by the
state in which the course was taken. A course completion certificate or other
document, or a photocopy, is sufficient if it recites or otherwise demonstrates that
the course meets all of the requirements of this subparagraph.

As an alternative way of fully satisfying this requirement, an applicant may
personally demonstrate knowledge of handgun safety to an issuing authority, if
the issuing authority is willing to evaluate an applicant's personal demonstration
of such knowledge. The issuing authority is not required to offer this 2nd option.
The demonstration of knowledge of handgun safety to the issuing authority
may not be required of any applicant who holds a valid State permit to carry a
concealed firearm as of April 15, 1990 or of any applicant who was or is in any
of the Armed Forces of the United States and has received at least basic firearms
training.

Most towns and cities that issue have adotped this Maine State Police standard to limit their jeopardy.

SOURCE

 

[rhenriksen]

I'm wrestling with this issue as well. I'm a Texas resident, with a Texas CHL. We're required to take a 10+ hour course including classroom lecture on non-violent dispute resolution, when the use of deadly force is permitted, places where CHLs cannot carry, etc. We've got to pass a written test, and a 50 round course of fire. $140 fee to the state, plus $100-140 to a school for this class.

Due to all of the above, Maine cannot establish reciprocity with Texas because Maine's requirements are much lower. Yet Sgt Gomane won't accept the Tx CHL as proof towards the ME handgun safety requirement. Said I'd either need an NRA certificate or a letter from a full time police officer that I meet the ME handgun safety requirement. Yet when I had a full time police officer contact Sgt Gomane to verify just what sort of wording he wants on this letter. Sgt Gomane a) was non-responsive to the question, and b) actively tried to discourage the local LEO from writing such a letter!

 

[NinerMaine]

Write Sgt. Gomane and reference the law quoted in the above posts. Include a copy and a description of what you course in TX entailed. Then inform him how and that clearly your course meets the legal requirement. Then lastly, politely ask hom for the name and contact number of his superior.

If Gomane does not respond with an acceptance of your course, then contact the superior and file a complaint. Keep working that complaint all the way to the Head of the State Police and to the AG if you have to.

Maine still frowns upon any type of corruption. This may be a time consuming option, but it will in the end be effective.

I'm wrestling with this issue as well. I'm a Texas resident, with a Texas CHL. We're required to take a 10+ hour course including classroom lecture on non-violent dispute resolution, when the use of deadly force is permitted, places where CHLs cannot carry, etc. We've got to pass a written test, and a 50 round course of fire. $140 fee to the state, plus $100-140 to a school for this class.

Due to all of the above, Maine cannot establish reciprocity with Texas because Maine's requirements are much lower. Yet Sgt Gomane won't accept the Tx CHL as proof towards the ME handgun safety requirement. Said I'd either need an NRA certificate or a letter from a full time police officer that I meet the ME handgun safety requirement. Yet when I had a full time police officer contact Sgt Gomane to verify just what sort of wording he wants on this letter. Sgt Gomane a) was non-responsive to the question, and b) actively tried to discourage the local LEO from writing such a letter!

 

[richc]

A short video showing you shooting an apple of your child's head at 50 feet using one hand. Place the video on YouTube and send them the URL.

Best,

Rich

 

[rhenriksen]

Thank you for the comments. I've actually done just that already - copied & pasted the verbage describing the Texas requirements from the Texas DPS website (and included the URL to the original content for verification), explain phrase for phrase why I think the Tx course satisfies the ME requrements. Sgt Gomane flatly refused to accept the Tx coursework, yet declined to explain why. Lt Bowler is his supervisor, and while everyone (Joanne Cummings, Sgt Gomane, and Lt Bowler have been polite and pretty quick to respond, I'm just flat getting stonewalled. Lt Bowler has functionally backed up Sgt Gomane on the refusal to accept the Tx requirements, by declining to offer an opinion on the matter.

I've tried hard to stay polite & cordial, yet I think my persistence has gotten under their skin. I'm hard pressed to figure out another explanation.

I'm going to wait a week or so and see how far my local LEO gets with Sgt Gomane. After that, I'm thinking about looking up the state senator & representative for my district (Raymond, ME - I've got property there). See if they think they could lend a hand. I should probably find out a) who they are, and b) if they're pro-2A or not!

Thanks for the encouragement.

Write Sgt. Gomane and reference the law quoted in the above posts. Include a copy and a description of what you course in TX entailed. Then inform him how and that clearly your course meets the legal requirement. Then lastly, politely ask hom for the name and contact number of his superior.

If Gomane does not respond with an acceptance of your course, then contact the superior and file a complaint. Keep working that complaint all the way to the Head of the State Police and to the AG if you have to.

Maine still frowns upon any type of corruption. This may be a time consuming option, but it will in the end be effective.

 

[rhenriksen]

Okay, making progress:

Maine House of Representatives
* John C. Robinson (R-Raymond)
103rd district
P. O. Box 519
Raymond, ME 04071
No simple grade for Rep. Robinson, but this page seems at least generally pro-2A

Maine Senate
* Bill Diamond (D-Windham)
12nd district
261 Windham Center Rd
Windham, ME 04062

"the National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund assigned Senator Diamond a grade of A- (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F)."

 

[NinerMaine]

I am finding your experience truly disturbing. This sounds more like NJ or MA than Maine. They have always seemed to me in the past to be respectful of the CCW law in both the letter and the spirit. I think starting with the reps is a good step as it truly seems to be they are stonwalling. You could always hire a Maine lawyer, but that is costly.

The law is the law, and they do not have the authority to deny a course that clearly meets the standard set by the law. Keep working up the chain of command. You could just go straight to the AG as well.

You can also call the Sportsman Alliance of Maine to see if they can be of assistance. They are the leadig pro-gun group in ME. If the SP are starting to not follow ME law fo non-residents, then the residents will be next.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[rhenriksen]

I am finding your experience truly disturbing.

Exactly. The course of least resistance for me to would be knuckle under and go pay for an NRA safety class. I'm reluctant to take that approach for two reasons:

i) I shouldn't *have* to - our employees (in Augusta) ought to have to follow the laws just like we do, and the statute as written by the ME legislature seems pretty unambiguous to me. So it's a point of principle.
ii) After spending as much money in Texas as I have, plus the time/training/testing, plus another $60 to Maine, I'm a little fatigued by the government hoops and resent having to spend yet *more* money & time when it just plain shouldn't be necessary.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Exactly. The course of least resistance for me to would be knuckle under and go pay for an NRA safety class. I'm reluctant to take that approach for two reasons:

i) I shouldn't *have* to - our employees (in Augusta) ought to have to follow the laws just like we do, and the statute as written by the ME legislature seems pretty unambiguous to me. So it's a point of principle.
ii) After spending as much money in Texas as I have, plus the time/training/testing, plus another $60 to Maine, I'm a little fatigued by the government hoops and resent having to spend yet *more* money & time when it just plain shouldn't be necessary.

I'll keep you posted.

Not another that spends as little as possible taking the bare minimum courses for something deemed to be of dire importance? Always found it funny people presented themselves as having such drastic needs and desires and not being willing to spend the $ for on-going training, courses, equipment.

 

[drgrant]

Not another that spends as little as possible taking the bare minimum courses for something deemed to be of dire importance? Always found it funny people presented themselves as having such drastic needs and desires and not being willing to spend the $ for on-going training, courses, equipment.

Yeah, but NRA BP for someone like him (or whatever certs they're willing to accept) might be a waste of time and money training wise.

From the sounds of it the state is only accepting certain courses as "proof". Meaning if I took a $500 advanced handgun course somewhere with 3 days of instruction, that might not qualify, but NRA BP would.... There's obviously a problem here.

-Mike

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

As stated above, the State of Maine accepts the NRA certified FIRST STEPS.

In your case that will be acceptable upon application and review. Again courses within 5 years is the Maine standard.

 

[NinerMaine]

As stated above, the State of Maine accepts the NRA certified FIRST STEPS.

As stated above, what the Maine State Police should be accepting is what the LAW says they should be accepting. The law is the law. The decision is not up to some dim witted anti-gun sargent in Augsta. The Sargent's job is to follow the law.

The course this guy took clearly meets the standard as set by the law. The MSP need to get of their high horse and do their job.

 

[rhenriksen]

As stated above, the State of Maine accepts the NRA certified FIRST STEPS.

Yes, they do. But that's not the *only* thing they accept - or at least, that's not the only thing they're required to accept according to the statute online. The text underlined/bold below aligns with the classroom/testing/range qualification required for a Texas CHL. It seems awfully simple/straightforward to me.

My local LEO & I had a very pleasant visit today. He finally got through to Lt Bowler this morning; apparently Sgt Gomane has been unresponsive to emails because he's away on two weeks' vacation. I'll have my letter from local LEO testifying to my safe gun handling this week, and take a third stab at applying for the Maine non-resident CHL by Friday.

What was explained to my LEO by Lt Bowler that I've been obstinant in refusing to provide a certificate. This is definitely a miscommunication; I never heard that message. If I can't get a Texas CHL with the certificate, then the proof that I have a CHL (which was photocopied with my application) is proof that I went through the course & got the certificate. If that certificate hangup was the only flaw in my application, then it was all just a big "failure to communicate". I'll throw both the certificate & my local LEO letter in the packet, and we'll see what happens.

---------------------------------

(5) Demonstrates to the issuing authority a knowledge of handgun safety.
The applicant may fully satisfy this requirement by submitting to the issuing authority, through documentation in accordance with this subparagraph, proof that the applicant has within 5 years prior to the date of application completed a course that included handgun safety offered by or under the supervision of a federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency or a firearms instructor certified by a private firearms association recognized as knowledgeable in matters of firearms safety by the issuing authority or by the state in which the course was taken. A course completion certificate or other document, or a photocopy, is sufficient if it recites or otherwise demonstrates that the course meets all of the requirements of this subparagraph.

As an alternative way of fully satisfying this requirement, an applicant may personally demonstrate knowledge of handgun safety to an issuing authority, if the issuing authority is willing to evaluate an applicant's personal demonstration of such knowledge. The issuing authority is not required to offer this 2nd option.

 

[NinerMaine]

Please keep us posted. It would be great to find out that the MSP are still acting the way they use to and ought to concering the issuing of CWP's. I am hoping that this was just a big mis communication.

 

[MaineCWPtraining]

Looks like you have all the outstanding issues in order.

 

[rhenriksen]

My app's third submission was delivered to MSP yesterday - complete with Texas TR-100 certificate *and* local LEO letter. We'll see how it goes. Third time's the charm?

 

[ljr]

Just curious... have you received your license?

 

[rhenriksen]

Just curious... have you received your license?

Odd, I didn't realize I'd left the thread dangling. Yes, 3rd time was the charm. 6 weeks turnaround.

 

[45collector]

I'm applying for non-res carry permits in both NH and ME. I'm amazed at how much simpler the NH application is!

I've had a MA LTC for over 10 years, and have been carrying pretty much every single day of those years. It's annoying that I now have to go take a safety course to make my ME application complete. It's possible I may have a safety cert sitting around somewhere, but I'm not even sure that was done in the last 5 years!

 

[tucoperk]

Bringing and old one back up. Has anyone here applied for a Maine Non Res with a Utah CCW Permit? The course was 6 hours and included basic operations of all handguns, handgun safety, and live firing. Hoping this will be sufficient in their minds...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Give them a call and ask. They are helpful and you'll get the straight scoop.

 

[KiloVictorTango]

So does ME accept the MA state police certificate that us MA peons need to apply for our MA LTC?

 

[Len-2A Training]

So does ME accept the MA state police certificate that us MA peons need to apply for our MA LTC?

Simple answer . . . NO! I doubt that many/any other states accept the MSP bogus certificate.

They accept NRA Certificates. Just read their packet of info on what courses are accepted. I don't recall.