And get MOA all day …..hahahaMy M1a and savage bolt gun run steel Wolf 308 150g all day long
Just having fun
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And get MOA all day …..hahahaMy M1a and savage bolt gun run steel Wolf 308 150g all day long
I know .223 is the cousin of 5.56, and 5.56 can be of a higher pressure than .223 ....
So much so that many people will say not to run 5.56 in a rifle marked .223
X for civilian M for Military right?
now tell me about 193 vs 855
In your run of the mill entry level AR with a non chromed barrel , say a 1 in 8 twist rate what would be the best plinking ammo?
Does Steel Core ammo cause any more wear to the barrel than non steel core?
Steel case vs brass cased pro's and cons?
This is a subject I am completely in the dark about and I'd like to be able to give a proper answer if asked about it.
I have 2 retired armorers one from the army the other from marines they where both in for the tail end of the M1a and many years through the AR variant
The both say the same thing
If it pukes on steel cased ammo theres something wrong.
During the ammo shortage after Sandy I even reloaded steel case ammo
I have also run cast in the AR
Its all part of the game
Well, at least 1 guy on here really loves that steel shit. Colt, spikes, Anderson and DD. Unknown milspec brand extractor and a Lantac extractor.How can you feel good about selling the gun wrecking shit! Lol
What gun and what brand extractor…
No need, I have thousands of rounds of brass through them.I'll do that and be in plenty of good company.
I'd still advise you to have your rifle checked by a competent smith for over gassing and correct buffer parts.
Is it or is the nato testing procedure result in a different pressure reading?
Don't run 5.56 NATO in guns market .223 Remington because 5.56 NATO is higher pressure.
The longer technical explanation from Hornday: @appraiserIs it or is the nato testing procedure result in a different pressure reading?
The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loaded to approximately 55,000 psi.
The second and most important difference between the two is the fact that a 5.56 NATO chamber has a .125” longer throat. This allows approximately one more grain of powder to be loaded into a 5.56 NATO cartridge; this is what gives it higher performance than its 223 Remington cousin.
The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi. This is NOT safe and will cause primers to back out, or worse, cause harm to the operator, the rifle, or both.
The reverse of this is firing a 223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle. Due to the throat difference between the two chambers a 223 Rem cartridge may not work optimally in a 5.56 NATO chambered weapon. The cause of this is the lack of pressure built by a 223 Rem cartridge fired from a 5.56 NATO chamber. The 223’s 55,000 psi will not be attained and therefore velocity and performance are hurt. Problems start occurring when this combination is fired out of a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle with a 14.5” (or shorter) barrel. The lower powder charge of the 223 round coupled with the pressure drop that occurs when it is fired in a the 5.56 NATO chamber will cause the rifle to cycle improperly. NATO chambered rifles with barrels longer than 14.5” should function properly when firing 223 Rem ammunition.
It is. Aside from observable velocity differences and the word of Black Hills, here are some data all using the same sensor position and methodology. Orrr, you can go by what Wikipedia says.Is it or is the nato testing procedure result in a different pressure reading?
I don’t think anybody has said anything counter to that.It's THE SAME FRIGGIN CASE!
You can blow a rifle in a number of ways. Using the wrong powder is the best way. But, commercial/govt 5.56 ammo is not loaded to such a high pressure that its going to blow a 223 chambered rifle.
It just isnt.
High enough to cause a problem?I don’t think anybody has said anything counter to that.
But the pressures are different. And a 5.56 cartridge in a .223 chamber can yield a higher pressure than that same cartridge in a 5.66 chamber.
According to Hornady for the 2nd time:High enough to cause a problem?
The biggest problem with these differences is when firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem. Due to the longer throat that the NATO chamber employs this combination will cause a 223 chambered weapon to run at approximately 65,000 psi or more. This is 10,000 psi higher than the 223’s normal functioning pressure of 55,000 psi. This is NOT safe and will cause primers to back out, or worse, cause harm to the operator, the rifle, or both.
Higher than the 114psi difference that has been claimed in this thread. Unlikely to cause a problem, but yes, potentially high enough to cause a problem. M855A1 aside, commercial loads at 5.56 pressures could pop primers and cause issues in your trigger group, as one example.High enough to cause a problem?
I heard the "warnings" from the "experts" many times. A strong, modern bolt-action will handle 5.56mm just fine. I ran NATO 5.56mm through my Savage bolt gun with no problems whatsoever. Check the cases and primers of the first few rounds. Cracked case mouths, bulged cases and protruding primers are excessive-pressure warnings. If this happens to you, stop using that ammo immediately!I know .223 is the cousin of 5.56, and 5.56 can be of a higher pressure than .223 ....
So much so that many people will say not to run 5.56 in a rifle marked .223
X for civilian M for Military right?
now tell me about 193 vs 855
In your run of the mill entry level AR with a non chromed barrel , say a 1 in 8 twist rate what would be the best plinking ammo?
Does Steel Core ammo cause any more wear to the barrel than non steel core?
Steel case vs brass cased pro's and cons?
This is a subject I am completely in the dark about and I'd like to be able to give a proper answer if asked about it.
No problems with brass, just the steel?I can tell you from experience that steel case will break your extractors. I went through 2 of them in about 400 rounds plus multiple malfunctions with every magazine. I bought a 1000 rounds of it on the cheap and I was stubborn, I was determined to shoot all 1000 rounds. I have 600 rounds of steel case for sale.
mil reticle, moa turrets for the win.And get MOA all day …..hahaha
Just having fun
Ok, next question: do you know of anybody using FACTORY ammo who has popped a primer? Someone who doesn't have a chewed-up firing pin to begin with? Handloaders, yes, especially if you're pushing heavy bullets. I've done it dozens of times. But factory 5.56 in a 223 chamber? I've never heard of it.Higher than the 114psi difference that has been claimed in this thread. Unlikely to cause a problem, but yes, potentially high enough to cause a problem. M855A1 aside, commercial loads at 5.56 pressures could pop primers and cause issues in your trigger group, as one example.
But no, it won’t likely blow up your gun. Which I totally agree with you on. But if you have a 223 gun and 5.56 ammo, run it until you see pressure signs. No pressure signs, keep shooting.
I don't trust Hornady's advice. They can't even make a 75gr bullet that will get all the way to the target.According to Hornady for the 2nd time:
YesNo problems with brass, just the steel?
I got nothing, that's a new one to me. If it was everything, I would say get a heavy extractor spring, a blue buffer spring, and a heavier buffer. That usually fixes it.
Lol, senior member…. There’s no slang here and He provided a resource of value relevant to the OPs question, relax.Four months and you are going to slag a senior (to you) guy who asked a legitimate question? People can be enthusiasts without knowing a thing about certain guns.
You gotta know when to shit talk and when there's a legitimate quest for information.
Steel core - Steel core is typical coated with lube (lacquer?) to provide more reliable feeding and to provide a sacrificial surface between the steel case and the steel chamber. Steel case Ammo can be hard on extractors and I guess if you run thousands and thousands of rounds wear your chamber prematurely. Personally I have never run any in my guns, but have some in reserve in case supplies run lowI know .223 is the cousin of 5.56, and 5.56 can be of a higher pressure than .223 ....
So much so that many people will say not to run 5.56 in a rifle marked .223
X for civilian M for Military right?
now tell me about 193 vs 855
In your run of the mill entry level AR with a non chromed barrel , say a 1 in 8 twist rate what would be the best plinking ammo?
Does Steel Core ammo cause any more wear to the barrel than non steel core?
Steel case vs brass cased pro's and cons?
This is a subject I am completely in the dark about and I'd like to be able to give a proper answer if asked about it.
I would do something like this but my MCX has no problem with steel case.I got nothing, that's a new one to me. If it was everything, I would say get a heavy extractor spring, a blue buffer spring, and a heavier buffer. That usually fixes it.
This actually hits the perfect NES balance. I'm thumbs up on this post. Knowing that Appraiser is a pistol dude makes part of the difference.Not a troll post, genuinely intrigued - you've been a NES member and supposed gun enthusiast with likes in the ten thousands and don't know?
Interesting? Are these with good quality non-guchi bolts?I wouldn’t run steel through any AR platform except my MCX or any other piston driven. The bolt being on a set of springs is the only reason why is my theory. I tried numerous times in all my different AR’s and it’s a malfunction every time, especially in winter. I’ve gone through 2 extractors with a very, very low round count. Brass only for me. As far as 223 vs 5.56…which ever is available and stay the hell away from NATO green tip. It blows and you can’t even shoot steel with it anyway.
I don’t know what it was. The headspace issue makes sense. But it would not shoot out of three different BCG’s.Interesting? Are these with good quality non-guchi bolts?
I buy mid level, and have had zero issues. I also headspace all my builds, disassemble, clean and lube all BCGs before initial use and after the anodizing gets scored in at a few mags deep.
I also carefully match buffer and spring and tube to gas length.
The only issue I had was with a "make do" $69.99 BCG and the WRONG setup. Carbine gas system plus rifle buffer spring and buffer. (Or it may have been opposite. Carbine spring setup and buffer and rifle or mid gas. I can't remember. )
After a few mags and some fail to feed after extract, I stopped and took apart the BCG. Wear I didn't expect on extractor. Stopped and went back to basics. Realized I'd don't things backwards and crossed up.
Bolt is sitting in a spares box.
These DI guns let you know pretty quick if they are out of balance.
Are they saying the longer throat increases case capacity?The longer technical explanation from Hornday: @appraiser
What is the difference between 5.56 NATO and 223 Rem ammunition? - Hornady Law Enforcement
Differences between the two are small but can have a large impact on performance, safety and weapon function. The first difference is the higher pressure level of the 5.56 NATO cartridge which runs at approximately 58,000 psi. A 223 Remington is loade...www.hornadyle.com
No Chamber difference, tighter lead/throatgun sez "5.56", you can fire both
gun sex .223, you might get in trouble firing 5.56, due to a slightly larger case dimension
that is all i know
I believe they’re saying that a 5.56 chamber will result in lower chamber pressure for the same amount of powder, so you can add a little extra powder before reaching the same chamber pressure as a .223 chamber.Are they saying the longer throat increases case capacity?
Or
Are they saying because of the longer throat “they” need to load more powder to get the velocity they need out of the loose NATO chamber.
I know its a beaten to death subject and all the same shit goes round and round.
You can load 223/556 to say a reduced load to achieve 2500 fps but if the bullet ogive jams the lands its going to be over pressure and thats what was happening with the older 223 rifles when 5.56 NATO became available to joe public.
If you test 223 ammo and 5.56 ammo loaded to specification in the same testing equipment it would have aprox the same pressures.
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gun sez "5.56", you can fire both
gun sex .223, you might get in trouble firing 5.56, due to a slightly larger case dimension
that is all i know