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School me on Lever Actions (please?)
- Thread starter CoastieRon
- Start date
For a range gun the loading gate is better. For a hunting gun the tube is better. Unloading a gate type gun when you get back to the truck you have to cycle the action till empty then pick your carteridges up out of the dirt. With a tube you just dump the empty shells into your hand. Gates are faster to reload.....i get that..... but if your hunting and a fast reload is necessary......your doing it wrong.
Hmmm. Well, I'm not faster with the loading gate on my Rossi, that's all I know. I've shorted the tube spring and smoothed the edges of the gate. And there's the counting or else there's that little hitch at the end when I can't get another round in, and maybe it tosses it back at me to let me know that. Sometimes the the cartridge doesn't want to go into the Rossi's magazine if it's angled a little bit wrong.
But despite me liking the tube better at the range, I can definitely expound on its drawbacks as I see them. They fall into two categories: tactical considerations away from the range and various concerns about the muzzle direction while loading at the range.
The tactical drawbacks are obvious. Enough said about that.
I can't speak for the rifle caliber lever guns, nor the Henry lever action shotguns (footnote), but if you know the Henry Big Boys, you will close the action to load it, and that means futzing about near the muzzle with the bolt closed. Best to make a strict religion out of lowering the hammer before pulling the tube. You need a gravity assist for the rounds to slide down the tube, so the rifle will held at an angle and might be pointed above the berm, or at least flirting with the top of it, while you're loading. That wouldn't be as big an issue if the action didn't need to be closed. There are ways of dealing with this if the range requires it, but the point is that it's a hassle not present with a loading gate.
Finally, sometimes the loading tube will hang up a little on the rims of cartridges as you lower it. Although this is not a problem in and of itself (you just wiggle it a little to get past the obstruction), if you're trying too hard to avoid muzzling your hand to the point where you don't have a good grip on it, even a minor hitch could result in you launching your tube downrange.
(footnote) It may be safe to load the Henry 410's with the action open. IIRC, the blocking tab is long enough on these models that there is actually a hole cut in the receiver for it when the bolt is closed. It seems possible that this blocking tab, unlike the tabs on the Big Boys, is long enough to block the magazine tube even if the lifter falls to its most extreme "up" position.
But despite me liking the tube better at the range, I can definitely expound on its drawbacks as I see them. They fall into two categories: tactical considerations away from the range and various concerns about the muzzle direction while loading at the range.
The tactical drawbacks are obvious. Enough said about that.
I can't speak for the rifle caliber lever guns, nor the Henry lever action shotguns (footnote), but if you know the Henry Big Boys, you will close the action to load it, and that means futzing about near the muzzle with the bolt closed. Best to make a strict religion out of lowering the hammer before pulling the tube. You need a gravity assist for the rounds to slide down the tube, so the rifle will held at an angle and might be pointed above the berm, or at least flirting with the top of it, while you're loading. That wouldn't be as big an issue if the action didn't need to be closed. There are ways of dealing with this if the range requires it, but the point is that it's a hassle not present with a loading gate.
Finally, sometimes the loading tube will hang up a little on the rims of cartridges as you lower it. Although this is not a problem in and of itself (you just wiggle it a little to get past the obstruction), if you're trying too hard to avoid muzzling your hand to the point where you don't have a good grip on it, even a minor hitch could result in you launching your tube downrange.
(footnote) It may be safe to load the Henry 410's with the action open. IIRC, the blocking tab is long enough on these models that there is actually a hole cut in the receiver for it when the bolt is closed. It seems possible that this blocking tab, unlike the tabs on the Big Boys, is long enough to block the magazine tube even if the lifter falls to its most extreme "up" position.
From the 22, of course. The 410 is probably derivative of the same design, but the issue is the length of the blocking tab on the lifter. IIRC, there's a hole in the receiver on the 410 to accommodate the blocking tab on the lifter so that it can be longer. Not so on the BB rifles, just a recess in the bottom plate. I don't know if the tab is long enough on the 410 so that it's safe to load with the action open, i.e. no matter what position the lifter is in, but the tab isn't long enough on the BB rifles to effectively block the magazine tube with the lifter in some positions. Obviously it jams if a round slips underneath the lifter while loading. With the action open, the lifter can flop around unless you hold the lever all the way to the open position or close the bolt part of the way.
<edited to avoid TLDR>
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What are we all overthinking?
Fritz the Cat
NES Member
Better to overthink than underthink
Pretty sure my problem is over-writing, not over-thinking.
There's not much actual thought involved in discussing tube versus loading gate, just observations.
The other... When I got back into shooting, my first gun was a Henry Big Boy 44 magnum carbine. I took it on a few range trips myself without incident. Then I took my two sons on their first range trip ever to shoot it. The very first time I loaded it that day, I loaded it with the action open and locked the damned thing up hard. Nobody got to shoot it on that day. Made a strong impression on me.
There's not much actual thought involved in discussing tube versus loading gate, just observations.
The other... When I got back into shooting, my first gun was a Henry Big Boy 44 magnum carbine. I took it on a few range trips myself without incident. Then I took my two sons on their first range trip ever to shoot it. The very first time I loaded it that day, I loaded it with the action open and locked the damned thing up hard. Nobody got to shoot it on that day. Made a strong impression on me.
AHM
NES Member
Can you imagine The Rifleman jamming his boom stick in the opening credits?
Wonder if there were any outtakes...
KBCraig
NES Member
JRT
NES Member
I think you can shoot 30-30 out of a 30 caliber can, its the exact same dimensions as a 308. On the other hand I'm not sure if you can shoot 45-70 our of a .45 can, the 45-70 is slightly bigger and the pressure would be much greater. I think the 45-70 would require something like the SiCo Hybrid or a dedicated .338 can. They both are heavy and useless for hunting. I'm interested in the 30-30 version for when we are driving deer.
ChevyGuy91
NES Member
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- Mar 25, 2008
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I really should unsub from this thread...
You absolutely can shoot tirty-tirty through a 30 cal can, and it would be a rad deer rifle. 45-70 is something odd like .46 or something just like 458SOCOM so yeah it would need one of those niche cans.
There’s some rumors being discussed on one of the Henry Facebook groups that Henry will be announcing a loading gate model(s) sometime today at the NRA Meeting. I seriously doubt that it’s true but we’ll see.
It’s on FB so it must be true right?....
It’s on FB so it must be true right?....
CoastieRon
NES Member
Well damn. Wonder how long it'll take them to make it in 357?
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Yes. Glad they kept that
Ill get one in pistol caliber and steel if the pricing isnt to retarded.
Web site says $1045, actually, which is about $50 more than the current brass 30-30. Probably means a street price of about $850, I would think. Considering that you can buy an old Winchester 94 for about half that if you want to stick with classic iron sights, that is quite a lot.
