Shot first production run of 45ACP Sunday afternoon - Small problem

[Rockrivr1]

I was finally able to get over to the range late Sunday afternoon. I was hoping to be there a lot earlier, but that is another story. Anyway, I started by loading an 8 round mag with 4 new production WWB round and 4 reloads just to see if I could get a feel for the difference in recoil. I will have to say that my reloads has a little bit more of a kick to them, but nothing I would consider major difference.

I started having loading issues pretty much from the start. Not every round, but more then half would not allow the slide to fully close. I could push the slide closed with my thumb. Doing that reminded me of using the forward assist on my AR. Once the slide was in place, the round shot off fine. If though, I tried to cycle the slide there was no way in hell I could do it with just may hand. I had to put the front lip of the slide on the bench and push down. The round came out that way, but it was definitely difficult. It was like the round was sticking inside the chamber.

I was thinking that maybe I'm not crimping them enough and they are bulging in the middle of the casing somewhere. I used the calipers on the brass lip after I reloaded to make sure it was the same as the WWB round. I didn't check lower on the brass though.

I was happy with the accurancy as I was getting it in the 8, 9, 10 and X ring on a pistol target at 8 paces. (16ft) I wasn't shooting off the bench. I'll do that the next time to really get an idea of accurancy.

So what do you think could be causing this problem and how would I fix it.

Thanks for the help.

 

[GTOShootr]

You should get a case gauge, or take your barrel out, and drop test all of your ammo in the gauge or chamber (at home). The case gauge would be tighter than your chamber but either one would tell you if you are resizing the brass fully. That is more likely than the crimp being a problem.

 

[adweisbe]

I have been lucky enough to never have that problem. I don't even own a case gauge or factory crimp die. Do you have the sizing die screwed down as far as it will go? You can sort of check with a magic marker and the brass and then see where it rubs off. Has any of the brass been through a Glock? Some people blame them for spitting out bulged cases in certain calibers (.40 S&W). I have heard some people complain that the brass bulges below where the sizing ring reaches, and then the cartridges either fail the cause gauge or fail to chamber. One common solution is the Lee factory crimp die which supposedly goes allll the way down the case.

Would also be good to know if it catching at the front or at the back of the case. One is a sizing issue the other is a crimp issue.

 

[Rockrivr1]

At this point I'm thinking it has to be the tail end of the round catching as I manually fed a round into the chamber when the slide was open and it seemed to seat fine, but still needed that little nudge for the slide to completely close. Sounds like I should be getting one of these case gauges.

I do have a crimping die on my Dillon 550B. I may either need to put that one lower or my primer die should be lower. I'll have to play with it.

 

[M1911]

You should get a case gauge, or take your barrel out, and drop test all of your ammo in the gauge or chamber (at home). The case gauge would be tighter than your chamber but either one would tell you if you are resizing the brass fully. That is more likely than the crimp being a problem.

+1

A case gauge is good, but in the meantime simply field strip the gun, remove the barrel and check the rounds by dropping them into the chamber.

 

[GTOShootr]

I think you mean the de-priming die, which is the resizing die in the first station. Get that one down to the shell plate with the ram up and then just back off a little. You want that to go as low as you can go down on the case. Use a spritz of Dillon case lube on the brass in a cardboard box and the operation with be smooth.

 

[TY43215]

Some ideas:

You stated

I will have to say that my reloads has a little bit more of a kick to them, but nothing I would consider major difference.

Even though a little more recoil, it sounds like more pressure. You need to Chrono the loads and if you don't have access to a chronograph, you need to back down your powder charge a little to start with.

You have some other good suggestions here, but no one asked what load you are using, what the head stamp on the brass is, and what is your overall length?

These may help in diagnosing. Since I load 45ACP primarily for revolver, sizing and crimp are very important to me for the reload factor.

Sizing all the way to the base makes a better load. I am just setting up an EGW die on my 40S&W reload tool head for that reason.

Good luck,

 

[Rockrivr1]

Some ideas:

You stated

Even though a little more recoil, it sounds like more pressure. You need to Chrono the loads and if you don't have access to a chronograph, you need to back down your powder charge a little to start with.

You have some other good suggestions here, but no one asked what load you are using, what the head stamp on the brass is, and what is your overall length?

These may help in diagnosing. Since I load 45ACP primarily for revolver, sizing and crimp are very important to me for the reload factor.

Sizing all the way to the base makes a better load. I am just setting up an EGW die on my 40S&W reload tool head for that reason.

Good luck,

I loaded 230gr FMJ from Zero over 5.2 grns of W231. I've been using my used WWB brass to do this first round of reloading. I don't remember exactly what the length was, but it was spot on the same as a WWB round I was using as to spec out my reload lengths.

I need to borrow my club's Chrono so I can check to see. I'm also not very happy with my scale. It's a PACT BBK2 Electronic Scale that I picked up used. It give me trouble calibrating it every once in a while. I may just pick up a balance beam scale and just use that. Seems safer then hoping my digital scale is right.

 

[TY43215]

I loaded 230gr FMJ from Zero over 5.2 grns of W231. I've been using my used WWB brass to do this first round of reloading. I don't remember exactly what the length was, but it was spot on the same as a WWB round I was using as to spec out my reload lengths.

I need to borrow my club's Chrono so I can check to see. I'm also not very happy with my scale. It's a PACT BBK2 Electronic Scale that I picked up used. It give me trouble calibrating it every once in a while. I may just pick up a balance beam scale and just use that. Seems safer then hoping my digital scale is right.

I would drop the load to 4.8gr. Check station 1 for full length sizing, check station 2 for excessive expanding, and load 25 rounds. Test them out and see how it works.

For this exercise, weigh every charge so you know they are the same. That should be close to a major PF load but a chrono will help.

 

[jkelly]

I have been lucky enough to never have that problem. ---adweisbe

What do you attribute that to adweisbe?


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[adweisbe]

Dumb luck? Tighter sizing ring on my SDB (used that for most of my reloads in my short history)? Looser chambers on my S&W 1911s? The SDB dies might size the case farther down then it does on his press? One of my 1911s has successfully fired a round loaded to 1.290 OAL. That might say something about the specs of the chamber.

OAL might be the issue, he still hasn't posted what OAL he is using. I wonder if he would be able to close the slide with his thumb if that were the issue? What can his thumb do that the recoil spring can't do? That being said I have had to push the slide closed before on factory ammo.

 

[RKG]

I think the first thing to do is to find out where on the length of the round it seems to be bearing on something prior to falling into headspace. Try taking one of your loaded rounds and drawing a stripe down one side with a magic marker. Now disassemble the pistol and remove the barrel. Drop the cartridge into the chamber until it hangs itself up and, without pushing it in any further, use your fingers to spin the cartridge. Remove it and see where the magic marker line has been rubbed off by contact with the chamber walls.

A dollar to a dime says that there has been inadequate crimp to reduce the effect of belling. I tend to doubt excess OAL or case length, as if either were present it is unlikely you would be able to force the slide into battery with just a thumb push.

It is possible that the sizer is not adjusted properly in the press. How you do this depends on whether or not it is a carbide sizer; the best thing to do is to follow the instructions that came with the die. In lieu of that:

Non-carbide straight wall sizers: with the die backed out, run the ram (no case in the shell holder) full up; screw the die into contact with the shell holder; drop the ram; screw the die in another 1/8 turn and secure.

Carbide straight wall sizer: same thing except put a dime between the die and the shell holder.

 

[adweisbe]

Why is the carbide sizer handled differently?

 

[Lugnut]

Why is the carbide sizer handled differently?

A carbide die shouldn't have an interference fit at all with the shell holder- no touchy. My understanding is the carbide die is harder and can break under the pressure of the ram/shellholder on the die.

 

[EddieCoyle]

A carbide die shouldn't have an interference fit at all with the shell holder- no touchy. My understanding is the carbide die is harder and can break under the pressure of the ram/shellholder on the die.

Not necessarily Lugnut. It depends on the press; more specifically on the "give" in the shellplate. You and I have L-N-L's and there's a bit of clearance under the shellplate. I always install my sizing/decapping die so that it just kisses the shellplate. This way, you can be assured that you're resizing the full length (or as much of the full length as you can). It's a good idea to do this for all calibers; it is absolutely essential for tapered cases like the 9x19 and .30 Carbine.

Troy, if your pistol is in good working order, then something on the cartridge is slightly oversized. Your load data sounds fine. Someone recommended going lighter, I go a little heavier myself (230gr FMJ w/5.5 grains of 231). Lots of people use 5.2 and it works fine for them.

Here's what I'd do: If you don't have any loaded rounds left, make up some more with the same setup as the first time. Like others have recommended, take the barrel out of your pistol and use it as a makeshift gage. Put aside any rounds that don't easily chamber.

Take the rounds that don't fit, and using a permanent marker draw three lines along the length of the case, from case mouth to rim, spaced 120 degrees apart. Load these rounds into a magazine, orienting the cartridges so that the magic marker lines miss the feed lips (the feed lips will rub them off). Next time you're at the range, insert that mag and start shooting. When/if you have a round that requires a forward assist, drop the mag and eject the round without firing it. Look and see where the magic marker lines are rubbed off.

If the lines are worn off at the case mouth, you're probably not applying enough crimp.

If the lines are worn off the sides of the case near (but not at) the mouth, then you might be applying too much crimp and causing the case to bulge.

If the lines are worn off near the case head (rim end of the case) then something is up with your resizing operation. Install the resizing die so that it just kisses the shell holder to ensure that you're resizing the full length of the case.

If the lines are not worn off at all, check the cartridge overall length (OAL) and look at the bullet jacket. If the cartridge is too long, you should see marks where the bullet has contacted the rifling.

 

[Lugnut]

Great info!

 

[Rockrivr1]

I appreciate all the suggestions. I had specifically kept one round that didn't work properly so that I could gauge it against what the book said and against a WWB round. The OAL was actually a tad shorter then the WWB round. The production round was 1.268 and mine was 1.266. I'm assuming nothing to worry about there. I did notice a slightly larger diameter on my round. The factory round at the neck through the base was at .4671 and .4672. I noticed that my neck was at .4673, with the base being at .4674/5 The digital caliper kept switching between the two. To me that is a pretty miniscule difference, but I'm thinking it must be enough to cause a problem. I reset my sizing die, which I thought was all he way down onto the shellplate, but actually had a little bit left to go down. I also moved my crimping die down a little to get the neck down down .4671 like the WWB round.

adweisbe had a question mark on the feasibility that his S&W 1911 might have a looser chamber. I found that comment interesting as I tested the loading of these first rounds through my S&W 1911 and they seemed to feed fine when I was manually cycling the slide. For shooting though, I took my Norinco 1911 for the "just in case" scenario. Figured I wouldn't be so upset if the Norinco got damaged. Maybe the Norinco has a tighter chamber then the S&W. Interesting. I'm going to make up a new batch with setting I just made and head to the range this weekend with them. See what happens. Hopefully they will feed a little smoother.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Cuz]

I loaded 230gr FMJ from Zero over 5.2 grns of W231. I've been using my used WWB brass to do this first round of reloading. I don't remember exactly what the length was, but it was spot on the same as a WWB round I was using as to spec out my reload lengths.

I need to borrow my club's Chrono so I can check to see. I'm also not very happy with my scale. It's a PACT BBK2 Electronic Scale that I picked up used. It give me trouble calibrating it every once in a while. I may just pick up a balance beam scale and just use that. Seems safer then hoping my digital scale is right.

Have you verified the accuracy of the scale using check weights? That could be your problem right there. What you think is 5.2 grns could be way off. If you don't have check weights, can you have a friend way a few small items (paper clip, bullet head, safety pin, etc.) and then verify on your scale?

-Cuz.