So what happened to Colt and Remington over the years?

Rockrivr1

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I remember back in the day when you could say that you'd love to get a new Colt handgun or a Remington rifle and folks would say, yeah, those are some good quality firearms. As the years went by things have definitely changed. Nowadays you couldn't pay me to buy a newly minted Colt or Remington. Their QC went down the tubes, their products have issues left and right and basically they've destroyed the good names of the brand. Remington basically destroyed the reputation of the 700 and they are trying to paw it back. To late though in my book as I'd love to have one of their older ones, but not sure exactly what year they turned into crap.

So what do you think happened? New owners, cost cutting, bad manufacturing machinery, etc'? It's a shame what they've turn into.
 
I remember back in the day when you could say that you'd love to get a new Colt handgun or a Remington rifle and folks would say, yeah, those are some good quality firearms. As the years went by things have definitely changed. Nowadays you couldn't pay me to buy a newly minted Colt or Remington. Their QC went down the tubes, their products have issues left and right and basically they've destroyed the good names of the brand. Remington basically destroyed the reputation of the 700 and they are trying to paw it back. To late though in my book as I'd love to have one of their older ones, but not sure exactly what year they turned into crap.

So what do you think happened? New owners, cost cutting, bad manufacturing machinery, etc'? It's a shame what they've turn into.


Money. Profits . Greed.

Just like anything else. Not hard to figure this out.
 
bankruptcies, activist investors, hedge funds,lawsuits the usual


Sandy Hook killed Remington

 
Colt got lazy filling government contracts and made a decision to ignore the consumer market.

Remington didn’t introduce new products, got caught up in a leveraged buy out frenzy, being in NY didn’t do them any favors either.

Lots of good new innovative companies with lower cost products
 
Colt decided that it didn't need actual CUSTOMERS in the 80's. It was the 1980's equivalent of the .com revolution. "We don't need to make money to make money!" LOL

Best was that Colt was ignoring the civilian market, working off of government contracts for AR/M-whatever weapons that, IIRC, they had FN build for them. So WTF was Colt even DOING during that time???

Remington got Private Equitied into oblivion.

I'm really surprised that there hasn't been more outrage at Private Equity in the last few years. I recall the 80's and the barbarians at the gates. They had a couple of collossal failures and then public outcry pushed them into obscurity.

Today? You see P/E f'ing up a ot of industries. Especially in retail - they've destroyed a few chains while making massive profits. No one cries out. No one asks what they are doing to add value (nothing - they subtract value).

Of course, in the 1980's, if you were an "influencer" and you got PAID by the establishment to hawk their crap, you were a sellout. Now you're just a smart rich influencer. I think Webster's removed Sellout from the dictionary in 2022.
 
Outsourcing. Fire all the American Engineers and designers, cut raw material quality and QC, and you get most gun companies.

Completely give up on innovation and excellence because 'people will buy it anyways and we need YOY growth more than anything else'
 
Cerebus killed Remington.

bankruptcies, activist investors, hedge funds,lawsuits the usual


Sandy Hook killed Remington

 
Cerebus killed Remington.
Remington was badly screwed by a private equity firm Cerberus. Cerberus used Remington to borrow 225 million dollars at 11% interest rate. Through complex financial engineering, this money was transferred to Cerberus, and Remington is saddle with this mountain of debt. Remington was doomed to bankruptcy from 2012, when this financial engineering started.
 
Remington was badly screwed by a private equity firm Cerberus. Cerberus used Remington to borrow 225 million dollars at 11% interest rate. Through complex financial engineering, this money was transferred to Cerberus, and Remington is saddle with this mountain of debt. Remington was doomed to bankruptcy from 2012, when this financial engineering started.
This.....Private Equity firm buys refinances business, takes equity out of it to bury inital business. Initial Business can't pay loan and files bankruptcy and liquidates. Lot of equity loan money gets lost in the shuffle under bankruptcy laws and absorbed into Ceberus as at the very least a writedown.

They had no intention of ever keeping Remington afloat as it stood.
 
I just picked up a Colt Kodiak...exceptional fit and finish and it shoots perfectly. Smith can't come close to this level of refinement, and Ruger, forget about it...
CZ owns Colt I believe and Dan Wesson …they are a good gun maker. They still manufacture in the US.

I have three o/u shotguns from CZ and they are solid quality for the price and never let me down. Made in Turkey.

They make some great rifles as well.

Unfortunately its not an American company. But no matter where they manufacture their guns are not junk.
 
I read an article about 15 years ago about Colt. It specifically pointed out that they faced major challenges with aging machinery and a very specialized labor force that was aging out and replacements were next to impossible to find. There were just a handful of guys that could blue and polish the way that Colt did in the 60's and it took years to master the process.
Craftsmanship can not be duplicated by a CNC machine.
 
CZ owns Colt I believe and Dan Wesson …they are a good gun maker. They still manufacture in the US.

I have three o/u shotguns from CZ and they are solid quality for the price and never let me down. Made in Turkey.

They make some great rifles as well.

Unfortunately its not an American company. But no matter where they manufacture their guns are not junk.
CZ is going downhill. At least their rifles.

They managed to f*ck that up.

Still great rifles, but basically reduced to two rifles, one of them has close to ZERO support.
 
To everything there is a season . . .

In the mid 1980’s, I worked for a vendor with an installation at Remington’s Ilion plant. Even then, the plant was antiquated and I felt a “good enough” culture was in place. I’m not going to defend vulture capitalists like Cerberus, but in 2006 Remington may well have been doomed already.

I suspect a similar issue occurred at Colt. When companies are built around cash cows it generates a management culture that resists innovation. Glock disrupted the market for handguns to at least as great an extent as the 1911 or the Peacemaker. Colt’s response was late and weak. Nor did it have a strategic response to the expiration of patents on the AR-15.

Having to deal with a Northeast U.S. workforce and regulatory structure likely played a role for both companies as well, but Austria is not all that different in that regard.

Sic Trans Gloria Mundi. Both firms provide a great example of the vulnerability of big businesses.
 
When equity groups buy out complete chunks of markets they tend to turn a profit for themselves at the expense of the consumer
View attachment 972931

This. Equity groups that then force penny pinching everywhere, including key parts for safety and reliability. They also stifle innovation because they don’t want to risk something new and R&D is overhead rather than profit.

No strategic or culture vision for the companies they buy.
 
I remember back in the day when you could say that you'd love to get a new Colt handgun or a Remington rifle and folks would say, yeah, those are some good quality firearms. As the years went by things have definitely changed. Nowadays you couldn't pay me to buy a newly minted Colt or Remington. Their QC went down the tubes, their products have issues left and right and basically they've destroyed the good names of the brand. Remington basically destroyed the reputation of the 700 and they are trying to paw it back. To late though in my book as I'd love to have one of their older ones, but not sure exactly what year they turned into crap.

So what do you think happened? New owners, cost cutting, bad manufacturing machinery, etc'? It's a shame what they've turn into.
Colt has been a dumpster fire for 40 years. Ever since the strikes of the mid 80s.
The only way they stayed solvent was because of their very lucrative military contracts.

When they lost to FN, all the mess started to matter. Colt managed to go bankrupt during a gun panic buying spree in 2013-2016.
While the company struggled, management was pulling money out of the company and putting it in their own pockets.

As a 45 year CT resident I've known several people who worked for Colt. One was in accounting, one was in the custom shop, and one was a master machinist. All of them have stories of gross mismanagement and general terrible business practices.

Colt under CZ is a better colt than we've seen since the early 80s. Their products are or will be high quality with consistent quality. Have you owned a modern CZ or Dan Wesson? It's simply excellent stuff.

This is Colt's future, and it's far brighter than if the company had managed to stay independent.

The same can be said of Marlin and Ruger. I also know people who worked for Marling when it was independent, in North Haven, CT. They made great quality firearms for a reasonable price.
When Marlin was acquired by Remington, everything went to hell. They laid off all the old machinists and production workers in North Haven, moved production to NY. Then realized that they didn't have anyone who could run or maintain all the old machinery. Further, documentation on Marlin products was sparse, with most of the knowledge of how to make these guns left behind in CT in the heads of the people they laid off. Marlin was like a gun making guild, with knowledge passed down to new apprentices, rather than contained in proper documentation.

When Ruger bought Marlin, it was a total sh1t show. Ruger did what it took and essentially re-engineered the entire model line up to be made on modern machinery. This was something Remington wasn't willing to do.

Like Colt, Marlin has a bright future ahead of them BECAUSE an acquisition saved them (from a bad acquisition).
 
I have Colt currently manufactured Python, Anaconda, and King Cobra carry revolvers and the fit, finish and quality of all are absolutely first class and the trigger pull is much better and smoother than that on any current Smith & Wesson or Ruger revolvers which I have also owned. I also have a current Colt Combat Commander 1911 45 which is also superb quality. All of these Colts have functioned flawlessly. I used to be a Smith and Ruger guy but have now switched to Colt.
 
I have Colt currently manufactured Python, Anaconda, and King Cobra carry revolvers and the fit, finish and quality of all are absolutely first class and the trigger pull is much better and smoother than that on any current Smith & Wesson or Ruger revolvers which I have also owned. I also have a current Colt Combat Commander 1911 45 which is also superb quality. All of these Colts have functioned flawlessly. I used to be a Smith and Ruger guy but have now switched to Colt.
I've got to say the same. I've never owned an older Colt due to the prices being absurd for so long but now that the current production prices are only 20 percent higher than Smith but 3X the quality, I've converted. And its not like CZ yanked up the factory, they're all still US made...
 
Yeah, people like to dis on private equity but PE doesn't pay top dollar for a thriving business. PE comes in after a business has been mis-managed and sees an opportunity to turn it around. PE may or may not be successful at that, but PE doesn't ruin a company -- the company is ruined already and that is why PE comes in.
 
I have Colt currently manufactured Python, Anaconda, and King Cobra carry revolvers and the fit, finish and quality of all are absolutely first class and the trigger pull is much better and smoother than that on any current Smith & Wesson or Ruger revolvers which I have also owned. I also have a current Colt Combat Commander 1911 45 which is also superb quality. All of these Colts have functioned flawlessly. I used to be a Smith and Ruger guy but have now switched to Colt.

It is great that Colt is making good stuff. However, let's not forget that they cost 1.5X what a Smith costs and 2X what a Ruger costs. So they better be better.
 
Sometimes I wonder if it's not colt and Remington that have gotten worse, but rather the competition has gotten better.

We look at quality like "this was the greatest in the market" which can be a low bar, decades later we take the survivors (survivor bias) and say "these were great!" Without looking at the whole picture of all production. Comparing those to 3d modeling and cad programs and cnc production, the competition has improved where colt may have just stagnated.

Sure, there's hand done professional guns out there you just can't duplicate anymore- the python for example, but those are the exception not the rule.
 
I've got to say the same. I've never owned an older Colt due to the prices being absurd for so long but now that the current production prices are only 20 percent higher than Smith but 3X the quality, I've converted. And its not like CZ yanked up the factory, they're all still US made...
Look at what CZ did to and FOR Dan Wesson. They invested adequate capital to allow DW to continue to innovate and expand their lines. They gave them many of the benefits of being part of a huge multnational corporation. But generally left them alone.

Dan Wesson is still made in Upstate NY at the same factory (work shop??) they have been at for years.
 
I read an article about 15 years ago about Colt. It specifically pointed out that they faced major challenges with aging machinery and a very specialized labor force that was aging out and replacements were next to impossible to find. There were just a handful of guys that could blue and polish the way that Colt did in the 60's and it took years to master the process.
Craftsmanship can not be duplicated by a CNC machine.

If only people had warmed it the Colt2000, it would not have been an issue.

[rofl] [rofl] [rofl]
 
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