Strange thing happened with my 642

[Lugnut]

Twice this happned- once to me and once to a friend that shot it yesterday:

I fired a first shot. For the second shot, I was totally focusing on the front site and tried to pull the trigger as smooth as I could- slowly. Next thing I knew, I had the trigger pulled all the way back but there was no bang. I'm pretty sure I remember feeling the click of the hammer dropping inside. When I opened the cylinder, the empty cartridge from the first shot was still at the top. Like I said my friend had the same thing happen. I've fired about 200 rounds total thru this so far. I've dry fired it a whole bunch and haven't noticed the cylinder not turning. Anyone have this happen? I've checked the opposite end of the extractor rod and nothing looks out of whack. Ideas?

 

[TY43215]

Hand could be sticking, possibly did not let trigger reset totally, could have crap in the lock work causing the sear to stick, and a lot more that could be the problem.

If you think you are having a problem DO NOT CARRY FOR SELF DEFENSE Until someone has checked it out.

 

[depicts]

Lugnut, I've had similar problems when I first got the gun. I wasn't allowing the trigger to reset, even though I heard a click.

Sometimes I can even jam it up pretty good if I bring the hammer part way back, let it ride forward a bit, then try to pull it all the way, kind of like a hesitation.

It doesn't happen when I let the trigger reset far enough, or when I make a complete, full stroke of the trigger.

 

[Bugs100]

Take the grips off and flush it out with a can of Break free. Do it over a few sheets of white paper. So you can see what comes out.

I do this with all my new revolvers. When I flushed out my new 617 I couldn't belive the crap that came out of it.

 

[Prepper]

Take the grips off and flush it out with a can of Break free. Do it over a few sheets of white paper. So you can see what comes out.

I do this with all my new revolvers. When I flushed out my new 617 I couldn't belive the crap that came out of it.

I've never tried this before; why would a new gun have crap in it? I have a new 642 also so I'm particularly interested in anything like this that I should be doing with it.

 

[dwarven1]

I've never tried this before; why would a new gun have crap in it?

It might have metal from when it was machined and fitted. If the pieces aren't cleaned, there's likely small chips of metal in there.

 

[TY43215]

Take the grips off and flush it out with a can of Break free. Do it over a few sheets of white paper. So you can see what comes out.

I do this with all my new revolvers. When I flushed out my new 617 I couldn't belive the crap that came out of it.

Worse thing you could do to a carry gun. It will then attract every piece of lint, dirt, etc that it is exposed to. No offense to the poster, but this is not the proper way to clean the lock work on any revolver.

Regards,

 

[Bugs100]

No offense taken.

But I've been flushing my revolvers out for close to 40 years and have never had a problem.

I started buying revolvers in the 60's and have never been opened up one and to tell the truth I never want to.

I carried a revolver almost every day for over 30 years, those revolvers were beaten, soaked, dropped and abused. I've used them as a hammer, a club and dropped them in mud. Yet they always worked.

Revolvers are a lot tougher then people think.

 

[TY43215]

No offense taken.


Revolvers are a lot tougher then people think.

And I was trained at S&W as a Police Armorer and serviced the firearms for my Department and 5 others. I saw a lot of Break free induced damage.

I realize there are a lot of things that are done and were done but the newer lock work is a lot different and reacts different to the solvents. I like the new stuff, but my 4"66-1 from the 70s and my off duty 66-1 2.5" are still the favorites.

 

[Lugnut]

Thanks for the ideas guys. Since this is a carry gun I'm likely going to send it back just for piece of mind. I suppose somehow it didn't reset but I find it strange that the exact same thing happened to two of us- so I doubt it was pilot error. I might try another 100 rounds or so before sending it back. I know it should go back, I just really hate sending my guns in the mail... maybe I'll make another trip to S&W....

 

[Len-2A Training]

As someone who shoots mostly semi-autos and is now indoctrinated to use "trigger reset" exclusively, I think that I see the problem here (at least wrt what I've experienced). I was about to send an Email to RGS to ask about this, but instead we'll discuss it here.

- When I shot the 642CT at S&W, I had this happen to me last week.

- S&W worked on my 642CT while I was there. I was dry-firing it the other day and experienced the same thing. HOWEVER, I was able to observe that I did NOT let the trigger go back all the way before pulling again.

- Then I purposely did the "trigger reset" routine on my 642 and observed that I was able to intentionally make it fail every time.

I'm convinced (at least in my case) that I'm causing the problem and have to "learn" that I need to pull the trigger differently with revolvers than with semi-autos.

 

[Lugnut]

LenS did you see the cylinder not move and still heard the hammer drop? I do shoot lots of semi-autos but with the 642 if you "miss the reset" it seems pretty obvious and I've never noticed the hammer drop if you miss the reset. If you are saying that you can miss the reset, pull the trigger (and feel the normal pull) and hear the hammer drop- all without the cylinder moving- then that is exactly what has happened to me.

 

[Len-2A Training]

On the S&W range, I don't recall. There was so much noise with 10-15 NES'rs shooting at the same time.

It looked like my dry fire practice did spin the cylinder, but didn't sound right when it dropped the Non-hammer (642 is hammerless).

 

[TY43215]

The trigger on a revolver needs to reset all the way forward to allow the sear to recover and rest on top of the trigger. If it does not reset all the way, you can throw the cylinder by but not activate the hammer.

Example: I am currently working with my 4" 625 to get the lightest reliable action I can have. It is a work in progress and there is a lot I am doing to this gun as it is competition only. Sunday I shot Steel Challenge with it, 3 stages went great but number 4 was down right ugly. As my hands were getting more tired, I was not releasing the trigger all the way so I was getting cylinder throw by. (or so I thought)

Looking at it last night, I found what I suspected to be partially true. My sear was not recovering all the way. Tonight when I get home, I will refit the sear and try to lighten this a little more.

All these things have taken me about 25 years to learn and I still learn more every day. As they change the lock work at S&W on these revolvers, they change the way I need to approach the work.

Does S&W send every gun out the door in perfect condition? As close as possible.

Some wear in different from use and need to be sent back. Some problems are perceived by inexperienced owners.
Some problems are operator caused and some problems are just people being picky. (You should hear some of the complaints)

In another thread, someone stated

Rule Number One - The customer is always right.

Rule Number Two - See Rule Number One.

Well, that is wonderful if you are the customer and S&W will honor that to a point. There are some times in this life the customer is dead ass wrong and anyone that deals with people outside of a box will tell you the same thing. Some problems just plain are not problems except to the people experiencing them.

If you are inexperienced with revolvers, there is a learning curve. You can not play the reset game we all try with semi autos. The trigger has to be released before you pull it again or it will not go bang. That is not the fault of the gun it is the "Nut behind the trigger" If someone has had a "trigger job" done on a revolver and the gunsmith lightens the action by cutting springs, there is an expectation on my part that there will be problems eventually.

Come to the NES shoot and try my revolvers. I will have my carry guns and my competition only guns. There are people out there that monitor this forum that do a lot better work than I do but there are also some out there that should leave guns alone

Remember, wheel guns are real guns

 

[Lugnut]

Well I just fired off another 75 rounds tonight without a hitch. Maybe somehow I didn't let the gun reset properly before. I'll certainly keep an eye out for anything else. Good thing about S&W- it's a lifetime warranty!

Wrt shooting it- I'm getting better. I've done tons of dry firing and the trigger seems to have smoothed out a bit.

This is just a theory- but if you can master trigger control on these guys- you can probably just about shoot anything very well. I shot my P220ST after the 642 and damn I felt like I was good! One thing I did notice though- the grip angle on the 642 is VERY different that my Sig and 1911... wow. My natural aim after shooting the 642 was practically at the ground! It took some time to adjust.

I know it probably doesn't make sense shooting a P220 or a 1911 after the snubbie but I'm growing a fondness of full size single stack .45s.... they just don't conceal well for me.

 

[RKG]

Worse thing you could do to a carry gun. It will then attract every piece of lint, dirt, etc that it is exposed to. No offense to the poster, but this is not the proper way to clean the lock work on any revolver.

Regards,

1. I strongly endorse this admonition -- except that I wouldn't limit it to "carry guns;" it applies to all S&Ws. The lockwork probably doesn't need to be cleaned and oiled more than a couple of times in a lifetime, but it does need to be done the right way.

2. My guess is that the observed problem is short stroking. Interestingly, I've seen or heard of this issue before with DAO Smiths (Centennials), all of which are J-Frames, but never seen or heard of it with other Smiths (including back in the days when PPC was the rage). So it is either an issue with the DAO sear/trigger arrangement or with the J-Frame.

3. The other possibility is that the DA sear letout is too small. This allows the trigger to slip past the DA sear before the trigger cam takes up the hammer. This is a fitting issue, and should only be repaired by the factory.

4. My recommendation is to put the revolver through a studied dry fire routine, where you pull slowly and deliberately, taking your finger completely off the trigger after each drop, and watch the cylinder action. If the revolver functions correctly for, say, 50-75 pulls, then there is nothing wrong with the trigger/hammer/sear, and it is operator error (short stroking).

 

[Lugnut]

4. My recommendation is to put the revolver through a studied dry fire routine, where you pull slowly and deliberately, taking your finger completely off the trigger after each drop, and watch the cylinder action. If the revolver functions correctly for, say, 50-75 pulls, then there is nothing wrong with the trigger/hammer/sear, and it is operator error (short stroking).

That is precisely what I did last night with live ammo, and prior with dry fire exercises. No problems. However I'm not convinced I short stoked it either but won't discount that possibility. I'll keep testing and in the mean time I'll just make sure I don't need it for a defensive situation. The good thing with revolvers I guess is I can just keep pulling the trigger if this happened again.

 

[MassMark]

RGS - Thank you! Truly one of the most informative threads I've read in a while. Your explanation of the intricacies of revolver mechanisms and shooting was really something. Nothing like experience backed up by know-how.

Lugnut - Keep on dry firing, (and live firing). I encountered this same issue early on. I then caught myself making it happen. As the trigger settles in, I think you'll find this issue disappear. Still, if it makes you feel better to send it in - then I recommend it. There's nothing like peace of mind. I have set my own personal record shooting this gun. I purchased it in the last week of March and have been shooting it nearly every other day. Sometimes it's a cylinder or two - other times up to 150-rounds, (though I'm finding that number hard with the Speer GDHP +P 135's - they're spicy). In any case, I'm at about 700-rounds through the gun and my early issues have gone - mostly I believe due to my rounding the "learning curve". Also, the trigger is just plain smooth now - like butter - heavy butter. I have become used to the pull and it's come to a point where firing my ParaCarry is feeling foreign....

 

[TY43215]

This is just a theory- but if you can master trigger control on these guys- you can probably just about shoot anything very well.

Excellent theory. I have always been of the opinion that every hand gun shooter should start with a revolver and be struck firmly on the back of the head when they try single action.

Yes, it will cause a flinch but the DA pull will also give them the feeling of what proper trigger pull is The flinch can be addressed at another practice session