Struggling with reloading .223!! Pointers?

L

Lugnut

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Well so far I've managed to get 2 cases stuck in the sizing die. I've figured out how to drill and tap them but it's a royal PITA! I've also decided to stop using the Hornady One Shot crap.... I've switched to Dillon's which seems to help and stays wet longer.

The latest problem was somehow my decaper pin on my Hornady die must have been slightly off... that or an off center primer hole... so the decapper broke and the spindle is bent. I'll call Hornady on that.

Cleaning, resizing and deburring is a tedious process.... what the heck do you guys do to speed this up? How ofter do you typically have to trim the cases with moderate loads?

.223 rounds are getting crazy expensive but the time to reload them seems excessive.

Thanks in advance.
Any pointers would be appreciated.

PS. I've successfully reloaded thousands of 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP so I think I understand what I'm doing... realizing of course that rifle loads are quite different and require the above steps.
 
I like a good lube like Imperial Sizing Die Wax or STP. Make sure the decapper is tight and locked into the die otherwise the think will get hung up and bend. Try and get a couple of decappers to have on hand.

I try and do stuff in big batches over the winter but it still sucks. You can get an electric screwdriver and a holder from Sinclair International for the deburring tool that will speed things up quite a bit. I trim on a Forester with the electric screwdriver to turn the cutting shaft. I trim them back .015 below max and they are good to go for a while. If you reload on a progressive you can size the case in two steps with body die to set the headspace and a collet die to do the necks. That will eliminate the expander ball coming up through the neck and pulling on the case. Also make sure to lube the inside of the case neck.

I also have a Gracie trimmer that I have used on occasion but I've ruined a lot of cases trying to get it set up.

Nonetheless reloading sucks. I hate it.

B
 
Great ideas bpm! I think I figured out the decapper problem.... it was adjusted too low and the expander ball thingy was bottoming out in the case... bummer.

I can see the need for electric tools to speed things up too. I'll have to look into other die sets as well. I friend bought a sizing die that automatically lubes the case... I wonder how that will work.

Thanks again.


bpm990d said:
I like a good lube like Imperial Sizing Die Wax or STP. Make sure the decapper is tight and locked into the die otherwise the think will get hung up and bend. Try and get a couple of decappers to have on hand.

I try and do stuff in big batches over the winter but it still sucks. You can get an electric screwdriver and a holder from Sinclair International for the deburring tool that will speed things up quite a bit. I trim on a Forester with the electric screwdriver to turn the cutting shaft. I trim them back .015 below max and they are good to go for a while. If you reload on a progressive you can size the case in two steps with body die to set the headspace and a collet die to do the necks. That will eliminate the expander ball coming up through the neck and pulling on the case. Also make sure to lube the inside of the case neck.

I also have a Gracie trimmer that I have used on occasion but I've ruined a lot of cases trying to get it set up.

Nonetheless reloading sucks. I hate it.

B
Click to expand...
 
Cross-X said:
Uhhh, Lug, I don't think I want to borrow any of your AR reloads any time soon!
Click to expand...

Ahh come on! They'll be safe! Starting load is only 24gr H335 with 55gr FMJBT, 2.215" COL, good brass. You'll be ok- want to try them before me in your gun? [smile]
 
Dave,
When I loaded .223, for a bolt gun, I used Lee Resizing Lubricant, a Forster rotary deburring tool and a Lyman power case trimmer and a single stage press.

I cleaned the cases, lubed and then resized them. I deburred both the inside and outside of the case mouth with the Forster rotary tool and them trimmed the cases to length. The links are below. Accuracy steps omitted.

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.ex...ster+deburring&category_selector=all_products

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/caseprep.htm


http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?search_keywords=case+lube&category_selector=all_products


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Couple of pointers:
Make sure that your shellholder is a close fit to the cases. You don't have much rim on the .223 to start with and giving any up is a bad thing.
There are no good case lubes that are not sticky and messy. STP and RCBS case lube are high pressure lubricants and will work better that the Lee lube. I use the Lee lube for neck sizing only.
I lube the inside of rifle cases with a quick wipe with a Q-tip that is dipped in powdered graphite. This causes the expander ball to slide more easily through the case neck and not stretch the cases.
Folks who are better organised (so I've heard), size and prep their cases in large batches, well in advance of any loading.
If your cases are trimmed to the usual 0.010" less than maximum length, they should be good for several loadings before trimming is needed. If your cases are stretching enough to need trimming each time, your die is too short or the chamber is too long. Buy or borrow a case headspace gauge and check them out.
Last, any die maker can have a bad day. The sizing die should have no visible machining marks in the neck or body area.

Jack
 
Hey- I was just wondering... I trimmed all my cases to 1.750", and my COL of 2.215" with a slight taper crimp... just a tad. Now if the cases grow to say 1.756" and I don't trim it again that's going to hose my crimp... giving me way too much. Should I not crimp at all??

Thanks for the help so far!
 
Lugnut said:
Hey- I was just wondering... I trimmed all my cases to 1.750", and my COL of 2.215" with a slight taper crimp... just a tad. Now if the cases grow to say 1.756" and I don't trim it again that's going to hose my crimp... giving me way too much. Should I not crimp at all??

Thanks for the help so far!
Click to expand...

You should only crimp bullets with a cannelure.
 
Lugnut said:
Great ideas bpm! I think I figured out the decapper problem.... it was adjusted too low and the expander ball thingy was bottoming out in the case... bummer.

I can see the need for electric tools to speed things up too. I'll have to look into other die sets as well. I friend bought a sizing die that automatically lubes the case... I wonder how that will work.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I use Dillon case lube and have had good luck with it. I have an RCBS power case trimmer (about $180 from Natchez) that trims, deburrs and chamfers the case in one operation; well worth the money.
 
Lugnut said:
Hey- I was just wondering... I trimmed all my cases to 1.750", and my COL of 2.215" with a slight taper crimp... just a tad. Now if the cases grow to say 1.756" and I don't trim it again that's going to hose my crimp... giving me way too much. Should I not crimp at all??

Thanks for the help so far!
Click to expand...
A taper crimp should be tolerant of small variations in case length. That is why it is used in stead of the older style roll crimp.

Jack
 
Lugnut said:
Well so far I've managed to get 2 cases stuck in the sizing die. I've figured out how to drill and tap them but it's a royal PITA! I've also decided to stop using the Hornady One Shot crap.... I've switched to Dillon's which seems to help and stays wet longer.

The latest problem was somehow my decaper pin on my Hornady die must have been slightly off... that or an off center primer hole... so the decapper broke and the spindle is bent. I'll call Hornady on that.

Cleaning, resizing and deburring is a tedious process.... what the heck do you guys do to speed this up? How ofter do you typically have to trim the cases with moderate loads?

.223 rounds are getting crazy expensive but the time to reload them seems excessive.

Thanks in advance.
Any pointers would be appreciated.

PS. I've successfully reloaded thousands of 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP so I think I understand what I'm doing... realizing of course that rifle loads are quite different and require the above steps.
Click to expand...


Having just finished up on an 8000 rd run of .223 without a single stuck case, I'll give you some pointers.

1. Get a set of Dillon dies. Their decapping system is superior to Lee dies. I have only broken one Dillon decapping pin in nine years of reloading (approx 150,000 rds) and it was during a run of .308 where a berdan primed case was missed during sorting of the brass.

2. Use either Dillon lube or make the same by using a bottle of 99% isopropyl alcohol and a tube of Lanolin Hydrous. Both are available at most any pharmacy. Mix and shake well until the lanolin disolves and colors the alcohol a yellowish tinge.

3. Ammo that doesn't need to be cleaned after reloading was never lubed properly to begin with.

4. A good taper crimp should be used for any .223 ammo that might be used in a magazine fed rifle.
 
Finalygotabeltfed said:
4. A good taper crimp should be used for any .223 ammo that might be used in a magazine fed rifle.
Click to expand...

I've never met an experienced High Power rifle shooter that uses any type of crimp on their ammunition. Our course of fire shoots a fair amount of rapid fire out of ARs M1s and M1As. Also M852 & M118SB are not crimped and Federal ammunition doesn't crimp any of their .308 or .223 match ammunition that is routinely fired out of semi autos. I'm not saying there are not situations or circumstances where it would be a good idea, but shooting it out of a semi auto is not necessarily one of them.

FMI you can look at this article by Sierra Bullets on loading for the semi auto rifle.

B
 
One man's two-cents worth (based on all of .30-06, .308 and .223, all for service rifles):

1. Use RCBS case lube, with an ink pad. Spread some lube on the pad, lay out 10-12 cases on the pad, and roll them (using the knife-edge of your hand (where the karate chop lands)). I also lube the inside of necks with a Q-tip, lightly, but only one case in every 10-12.

2. I tumble brass after the sizing/decapping stage. This gets rid of the lube as well as cleans up the cases. Obviously, I load in batches and not on a progressive for these calibers.

3. Primer pocket swaging only needs to be done once in the life of a case. Use either an RCBS or a Dillon swage; do not use any of the reaming tools.

4. I find that tumbling cleans primer pockets sufficiently, but if you want them cleaner, either get a hand-held primer pocket cleaning tool or a well-shaped slotted screwdriver of the appropriate blade width. Not to much pressure is required.

5. I usually start with new brass and only use someone else's once-fired if I really trust the source. Regardless, I find that trimming needs to be done only once per every 5 or 6 loadings, which, in the case of autos, is pretty much case life. Pay attention to the condition of the case after a couple of firings, as they tend to get dinged and may have the rim and extractor groove pretty mauled. I use an old-fashioned collet-type trimmer, which is slow but, if it's snowing outside, who cares?

6. Powder selection can have an impact on case life, particularly with the autos. In general, you want a cannister-grade powder that comes as close as possible to the burning rate of the non-cannister powder used by the factory. For .30-06, I use Win 748 exclusively, and I've also found that that powder is ideal for target loads in both .308 and .223.
 
Don't use the Dillon lube wet. Let it dry and make sure you shake it well prior to use. I spread out the cases on a cookie sheet and lightly spray about a hundred rifle cases. I roll them around a bit and spray them again lightly. Too much and it will put dents in the cases.

I tumble all cases for an hour or so before resizing. I've never had any problems with the Hornady One Shot but I found it to be expensive compared to the Dillon lube.

I don't crimp any Sierra Matchkings but I do lightly crimp the M855 rounds I make up.
 
bpm990d said:
FMI you can look at this article by Sierra Bullets on loading for the semi auto rifle.

B
Click to expand...


That is a very good read... thanks. And thanks for all the pointers. I will remain positive while trying to find a good system.

PS- FWIW- I fired my first 5 rounds of .223 without and issues at all. It was the starting load before I tried resizing addional cases before things broke.

Thanks for everyone's great help.
 
The amount of lube used in resizing is critical. Too lttle, and you can stick a case in the die. Too much and the die gets clogged and the cases can be deformed.

I find the ideal way to lube cases is to place 75 to 100 (223) in a gallon plastic freezer bag and add one sheet of paper towel that has been saturated with lube (I use Dillon), but not dripping wet. Shake for a couple of minutes and the cases are coated. I have resized over 500 cases without cleaning the die using this method which was published in the "Blue Press".
 
To take the tediousness out of all the operations needed for reloading rifle rounds I do the following...

One evening, using my decapping die, I will decap 100-150 cases, and toss them into the tumbler to clean. This takes all of 20 minutes.
The next evening, I will swage the primer pockets of that same brass. Again, takes all of 20 minutes.
The next evening, I will resize those cases, and throw them back into the tumbler to clean off the lube. Again, I am only into it for all of 20 minutes.
The next evening, I will trim, chamfer and debur the cases. I use a Lyman trimmer with the power adapter, and use my drill for this. I can probably do all the cases in about 30-40 minutes.

I usually end up priming my brass while sitting on the couch, having a beer and watching the tube. Then I have a big bucket that I throw my brass into, and put the cover on. When it comes time to actually load the ammo, all I have to do is charge however many cases I feel like doing with powder, seat the bullet, and crimp. I have found that spreading the work out like this, makes it feel like you aren't doing much work, and it is only taking a half hour out of your day at a time.
 
One evening, using my decapping die, I will decap 100-150 cases, and toss them into the tumbler to clean. This takes all of 20 minutes.
Click to expand...

While I do the same, I must point out that I find the cleaning media does tend to get stuck in the flash hole and must be checked and removed.
 
rscalzo said:
While I do the same, I must point out that I find the cleaning media does tend to get stuck in the flash hole and must be checked and removed.
Click to expand...

Not an issue, because I leave the depriming pin in my sizing die, and when I resize the brass it punches out anything that may be left behind.
 
How do you get the lube off after you deprime the case? If I 'm doing a small batch I just wipe it off with some lighter fluid and a paper towel, but for most large batches I put it in the tumbler. I think that was what RSCALZO was talking about.

B
 
For a small batch or maybe twenty or so, I wipe the cases down. I use in some cases Simple Green thinned or lately brake cleaner on a heavy towel. Large batches I tumble. I then have to check the primer pockets if I tumble before reloading the case. I usually tumble after the round is loaded to remove the lube.

Another thing that I do almost constantly is use powder free latex gloves that I buy in bulk at Sam's Club. Keeps my hands clean and free of the chemicals.
 
A word on primer pocket swaging. I just bought 3000 once fired military cases (FC 06). I attempted to swage the primer pockets using my CH die which has worked flawlessly for years. No way. If I use enough pressure to remove the crimp, the case rims are deformed. Back off on the adjustment to where the rims aren't bent and the primers won't seat reliably. I am going to try a chamfering tool.
 
Gammon said:
A word on primer pocket swaging. I just bought 3000 once fired military cases (FC 06). I attempted to swage the primer pockets using my CH die which has worked flawlessly for years. No way. If I use enough pressure to remove the crimp, the case rims are deformed. Back off on the adjustment to where the rims aren't bent and the primers won't seat reliably. I am going to try a chamfering tool.
Click to expand...


Is that FC 06 or LC 06? If LC, its great stuff, if it's Federal, inspect it carefully. It tends to stretch. The brass is also soft and the primer pockets tend to not hold a primer after a couple of reloads.
 
By the way.. I called Hornady and told them what I did to the die. They said they would send me the new zip spindle, expander ball and decapper pin.... no charge. I was ready to pay as it was my fault.
 

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