Suggested riser height for a safe in the basement?

Lxpony

Lxpony

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Eastern Security is delivering my Ft Knox today and I am at a loss as to what to use as a base. I was able to get some wood that is 3/4" high but should it be higher? The safe comes with a pallet but it is ugly and I will not be moving this safe (800 oounds) unless I move out of the house.

Any ideas?
 
go to the lumber yard and grab a 4x4 pressure treated post and cut for two runners, one on the left and one on the right. Or one front, one back. Better yet, get a 6x6 if your basement is more prone to flooding. This will give you a little better advantage over the water. Also, buy some threaded rod to bolt the safe to the floor. Drill the holes in your floor oversize and mix up some hydraulic cement and drop the rod into the holes with the ends coated in the cement. Good Luck
 
squirrel slayer said:
go to the lumber yard and grab a 4x4 pressure treated post and cut for two runners, one on the left and one on the right. Or one front, one back. Better yet, get a 6x6 if your basement is more prone to flooding. This will give you a little better advantage over the water. Also, buy some threaded rod to bolt the safe to the floor. Drill the holes in your floor oversize and mix up some hydraulic cement and drop the rod into the holes with the ends coated in the cement. Good Luck
Click to expand...

This is almost exactly what I did for my safe, with a few small exceptions. I built a "box" out of PT 2x4's with an additional stringer running down the middle. Covered it in 3/4" construction grade plywood. Stainless steel deck screws hold it together. I used lead sinkers in the cement floor to hold my floor bolts in vice the cement mentioned above.

This set-up puts the door to my save almost 6 1/2" in above the floor and solidly mounts it.
 
I cut two sections of some old PT 4" x 4" I had while ES manouvered the safe to the bulkhead. That is more than enough to raise it, while allowing ample air flow to prevent any rust. I also have it about 6" away from the cellar wall for the same reason.
 
Do you get water in the basement? If so, see what the highest water mark line is and build it a few inches higher.
 
mmm... I never thought about the bottom rusting... I have a sump and the floor never gets wet... (sump does what it is made for)... but there is still that risk...

I guess I should move the safe up on some 4X4's... I actually have a nice 4X4 cedar post that I could cut. I still have to bolt it to the floor too... granted, it would take 2 to 3 guys to get it out of the house all with the alarm and such going off after they get past the dog... but it could happen.
 
I hate to mention this, but raising the safe above the floor on 2x4 stringers defeats any security you might get by bolting the safe to the concrete floor.

Anyone who intends to steal a safe (as opposed to breaking it), figures he's got time to work. It isn't much with the right tools to bore a large enough hole through a stringer to get sufficient access to the now-exposed bolt (or threaded rod) as to be able to cut it.

The best protection for a safe is a well-designed and well-maintained alarm system (at least two motions looking at the safe and a couple of others protecting entrance into the room), which alarm system is used religiously.

For additional security, you can put contacts on the safe door that are wired to a 24-hour zone. This means that the contacts are not dis-armed when the panel is (like fire zones), and a separate call to the alarm company is required whenever the safe is to be opened. You then have to work out two passcodes with the alarm company: one for real and one for duress.
 
My safe weighed in excess of 900# empty - which it now isn't. It also took a motorized crawler to place the safe in the basement.

It might be cut open - eventually - but it certainly isn't being carried out.

As they say: Molon labe!
 
I would have made a form and poured a pad. Borrow/rent a hammer drill and drill a few large holes in the original floor so that the pad is secured to it. You can stick your threaded rod right in the wet cement while it's drying. A couple large wingnuts on the threaded rod keeps it from coming out of the cement. Put a piece of PT plywood under the safe to keep it from sitting right on the cement without giving access to the bolts.
 
RKG said:
Anyone who intends to steal a safe (as opposed to breaking it), figures he's got time to work. It isn't much with the right tools to bore a large enough hole through a stringer to get sufficient access to the now-exposed bolt (or threaded rod) as to be able to cut it..
Click to expand...

If that's the case, any safe bolted to a concrete floor could be removed with just a sledgehammer or jackhammer! And it wouldn't take long to bust up a 4" floor around the safe! The idea is to slow the thief down so he isn't just walking in with the dolly and making off with the safe in minutes. And to keep its contents and the safe itself protected from water with a little elevation.
 
1. I agree that nothing is perfect.

2. I also agree that, apart from alarms, the principle impediment to asportation theft (vs. breaking theft) of a gun safe is the size and weight of the safe.

3. My point was about marginal security. Bolting the safe directly to the concrete floor (with, as someone suggested, an intervening layer of 3/4" PT ply for isolation) adds some marginal security (probably not a lot). Bolting the safe through a hollow 2x4 framed pad (essentially a pallet) removes most of that marginal security (whatever it is). It would take far less in time, tools, effort, and noise-generation to get through the bolt in the latter case than it would to bust up the floor.
 
3. My point was about marginal security. Bolting the safe directly to the concrete floor (with, as someone suggested, an intervening layer of 3/4" PT ply for isolation) adds some marginal security (probably not a lot). Bolting the safe through a hollow 2x4 framed pad (essentially a pallet) removes most of that marginal security (whatever it is). It would take far less in time, tools, effort, and noise-generation to get through the bolt in the latter case than it would to bust up the floor.
Click to expand...
Agreed, a sawzall like this with a metal cutting blade will be through those bolts in literally seconds. But with a 3/4" space stuffed with plywood in the way it's going to be really hard to get the blade to the bolt. And many of the basements that have gunsafes may even have such a saw in them.

Also be aware of what tools you have in proximity to your safe. Don't let them stumble across your safe and decide to try and crack it open since you provided the tools to do so. If you leave a gorillabar and a sledgehammer near by they may not get in it but they will likely ruin it.
 
Erebus said:
Also be aware of what tools you have in proximity to your safe. Don't let them stumble across your safe and decide to try and crack it open since you provided the tools to do so. If you leave a gorillabar and a sledgehammer near by they may not get in it but they will likely ruin it.
Click to expand...

I have seen a Liberty brand safe that was easily blown apart by some guy
with a sledgehammer and probably some other basic hand tools. If the
safe is big its probably easier to hack it open (from the sides or back,
where the steel is the thinnest) than it is to haul it away.

The bottom line is if your "safe" isnt TL rated it's not going to withstand
a concerted effort. Thankfully the vast majority of thieves are not that
resourceful. I think the idea behind the bolts is to prevent a couple of
joe fungoehead types with an appliance cart from easily carting the thing
away. If they came armed with power tools you're screwed
anyways.

Edit: Makes me wonder... has anyone taken a gun "safe" and encased it
in cement or some other material? (eg, to increase the labor involved in
moving it or trying to smash the sides open).

-Mike
 
Last edited:
If you are worried about moisture, and don't want to compromise height, I know that there is a product like plywood that has a solid, cleated plastic base. I am sure that you could just bolt through it. The downfall is it is made from particle board. However it "is" engineered for a basement floor or concrete application.
 
I don't know about safe but the one thing that is never done with scuba tanks is store them directly on a concrete floor. The lime in the cement would corrode the bottom of the tank....which is a BAD thing. I store mine on a piece of plywood. I would want something between the cement and the metal bottom of the safe.
 
The bottom line is if your "safe" isn't TL rated it's not going to withstand a concerted effort.
Click to expand...

Agreed and even if it is TL rated, if the tools to try are easily available a dunderhead or two may give it a try. They may destroy the controls rendering it inoperable to you, and do alot of cosmetic damage. Don't make it easy for tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber to take a hack at it and do a lot of damage. Let them take the DVD player and the XBOX and leave. If they see a formidable safe and no tools to even try to open it with they likely won't waste the time on a fruitless effort. And all you have to replace is an XBOX and a DVD player.

A pro that went in there with the intention of defeating your safe will have equipped himself to do so, and knows what he is doing. And before anyone says, "No one can get into my safe it's a..." if a dedicated man built it, a dedicated man can defeat it.

Just my opinion, take it for what you see as it's worth.
 
I ended up using the palet the safe came with. fully loaded it weighs about 900 pounds. I have a motion sensor looking at the safe. I feel secure in my setup... I will try to post some pics tonight
 
Not to give away secrets, but motion sensors should be in pairs, looking at the same target from different vantages. A guy who knows alarm systems can defeat one motion, but if there are two, the second one will trip on the efforts to block the first one.
 
RKG said:
Not to give away secrets, but motion sensors should be in pairs, looking at the same target from different vantages. A guy who knows alarm systems can defeat one motion, but if there are two, the second one will trip on the efforts to block the first one.
Click to expand...

someone trying to steal a safe may (stress on may with todays newest motions) get to the safe... but he aint opening ir nore is he moving it without setting it off. (proper placement of a motion is key.)
 
matt1956 said:
someone trying to steal a safe may (stress on may with todays newest motions) get to the safe... but he aint opening ir nore is he moving it without setting it off. (proper placement of a motion is key.)
Click to expand...

I don't want to get into the details, but my point is that a truly sophisticated malfeasor can disable a single motion. That means, once disabled, he can amble around the room to his heart's content. The point of two cross-firing remotes is that one will always detect an approach to the other.
 
Liberty safe

drgrant said:
I have seen a Liberty brand safe that was easily blown apart by some
guy with a sledgehammer and probably some other basic hand tools.
Click to expand...

Is this the one? One guy entered through the side and the door using a
sledge.

It was emptied.

libertyburglary2.jpg
 
Scrivener said:
Was there anything useful left inside after he
trashed the safe to get in?
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter. Speculating whether the contents remained intact or were
damaged in the process doesn't change the fact that the contents were
stolen.

To paraphrase Police Chief Martin "We're gonna need a bigger boat" Brodie, I
guess the safe owner's gonna need a better safe.

And some new "contents."
 
kjt said:
It doesn't matter. Speculating whether the contents remained intact or were damaged in the process doesn't change the fact that the contents were stolen.
Click to expand...

True. However, there would be a certain satisfaction if, after working that hard, the guns they trashed the guns they were after!
 

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