Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

DarthRevan said:
You’re a little too optimistic.
They have a funny way of recruiting enough to still piss in the pool with regularity.
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Former liberal here and look at me now...Desperately imagining the day when I can stroll into a gun shop and say "I'll take that silencer, that sub machine gun and give me 5 of those 100 round magazines. I'm going to have a yeehaw moment at the range." I think if I wasn't born in Massachusetts I would have turned out to be a red meat chomping conservative.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
Former liberal here and look at me now...Desperately imagining the day when I can stroll into a gun shop and say "I'll take that silencer, that sub machine gun and give me 5 of those 100 round magazines. I'm going to have a yeehaw moment at the range." I think if I wasn't born in Massachusetts I would have turned out to be a red meat chomping conservative.
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HISTORICALLY speaking...one could buy a Thompson Submachine Gun from the Sears Roebuck catalog via mail.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
We're talking a federal civil rights claim that brings with it a 42USC1983 claim as well.
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and since it's an EXTREMELY HIGH BAR to prove a 1983 violation I wouldn't be too hopeful. I listened to podcasts by IJ and they talk about this A LOT. Basically when there isn't precedent of an ESSENTIALLY EXACT CASE, the claim is rejected by the court.
 
fshalor said:
I want to be optimistic but I as an engineer can't see the connection to ammo with text and history. Speaking explicitly. Hollow point vs Geneva convention allowed/proscribed FMJ.

Text and history, to my eye makes full auto kit be on the table. But potentially nixes hollow point defensive rounds (or at least doesn't implicitly include).
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Pretty sure it’s text and history of when the country was founded.

But further, hollow points aren’t banned by the Geneva convention. Rather, "bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body” are banned by declaration IV, part 3 of the first Hague Convention of 1899.

However, that particular declaration was not ratified by the U.S. and we are not beholden to it. Even if we were, I don’t think it would be relevant for text and history of the U.S. in terms of gun control.
 
FrugalFannie said:
and since it's an EXTREMELY HIGH BAR to prove a 1983 violation I wouldn't be too hopeful. I listened to podcasts by IJ and they talk about this A LOT. Basically when there isn't precedent of an ESSENTIALLY EXACT CASE, the claim is rejected by the court.
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Comm2A has collected twice:

#1: The suit against MA prohibiting non-citizen permanent resident aliens from obtaining an LTC. We won that, and permanent resident aliens are now LTC eligible. The FRB was very professional in its response, and the state settled the 1983 claim in a fair and equitable manner. (Fletcher v. Haas)

#2: The suit against MA for the lifetime prohibition against minor marijuana convictions imposing a lifetime prohibition against firearms ownership in MA, even though such action is now legal, and former MJ use does not disqualify one from employment as an armed federal agent. One again, settled with the state in a fair and equitable manner. (Wesson v. Fowler)

Those facing a Comm2a civil rights suit should consider 1983 a very real possibility.
 
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pastera said:
No thanks - I really don't want an used IWB
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Well. Not everyone's as finicky as you, maybe. Lol.

I've always thought it'd be a good idea, but I have no clue how to organize it. Maybe like a special "holster karma" thread where people post all their holsters they'd be willing to give up, then other members swoop in and put in a claim.
 
drgrant said:
That’s a non starter if you have to defend yourself thats always been a 1000x bigger deal than ignoring the dumb restrictions. Even before Bruen.
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True. The issue is not the potential fine ($10K, small change compared to the cost of defending yourself in court) but the certainty that the state will make a big deal about your "Carrying illegally". The court should rule that inadmissible at a trial, but it would be used to spin the case publicity.
 
Picton said:
Well. Not everyone's as finicky as you, maybe. Lol.

I've always thought it'd be a good idea, but I have no clue how to organize it. Maybe like a special "holster karma" thread where people post all their holsters they'd be willing to give up, then other members swoop in and put in a claim.
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I've started looking into running just such an in-person event. The delay right now is coordinating an appropriate venue.

A rotating karma could be pretty slick though.
 
Picton said:
Well. Not everyone's as finicky as you, maybe. Lol.

I've always thought it'd be a good idea, but I have no clue how to organize it. Maybe like a special "holster karma" thread where people post all their holsters they'd be willing to give up, then other members swoop in and put in a claim.
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I tried to organize one once. There was little interest at the time. Maybe I was just doing it wrong…
 
Mesatchornug said:
I've started looking into running just such an in-person event. The delay right now is coordinating an appropriate venue.

A rotating karma could be pretty slick though.
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The other issue to worry about is safety. People will want to see if a holster fits their gun and the general public isn’t always disciplined when handling firearms.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
Former liberal here and look at me now...Desperately imagining the day when I can stroll into a gun shop and say "I'll take that silencer, that sub machine gun and give me 5 of those 100 round magazines. I'm going to have a yeehaw moment at the range." I think if I wasn't born in Massachusetts I would have turned out to be a red meat chomping conservative.
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I was a far left liberal Dem until my early 30's and then joined an Army Reserve Infantry Unit at 33 yrs old (cutoff was 34 at the time) , applied for a LTC and bought a Glock.
 
drgrant said:
That’s a non starter if you have to defend yourself thats always been a 1000x bigger deal than ignoring the dumb restrictions. Even before Bruen.
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Here a case from Florida last November. Guy was acquitted of felon murder etc by reason of self defense during a SWAT raid but he was a convicted felon and was guilty of that.

weartv.com

Florida man acquitted of shooting at deputies in raid that led to death of girlfriend

VERO BEACH, Fla. (CBS12) — Jurors found Andrew Coffee IV not guilty on charges of felony murder and attempted murder of a law enforcement officer, on Friday, determining he acted in self-defense when firing at deputies during a SWAT raid in 2017. When the gunfire ended, Coffee's girlfriend...
weartv.com weartv.com

Self defense is a defense available to anyone as you say , you don’t lose that right if you don’t have a gun license.

The lack of an LTC in MA, being a PP etc etc may still get you convicted of a minor charge.
 
fshalor said:
I want to be optimistic but I as an engineer can't see the connection to ammo with text and history. Speaking explicitly. Hollow point vs Geneva convention allowed/proscribed FMJ.

Text and history, to my eye makes full auto kit be on the table. But potentially nixes hollow point defensive rounds (or at least doesn't implicitly include).
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Was there a history of regulating ammo in 1791 or 1868? Nope. There has to have been a regulation of the ammo, type of guns, etc or something nearly on point for it to be allowed
 
Hoover said:
Was there a history of regulating ammo in 1791 or 1868? Nope. There has to have been a regulation of the ammo, type of guns, etc or something nearly on point for it to be allowed
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Apparently there is some history of regulating storage of black powder in homes in at least one city, due to fire concerns.
 
pastera said:
My hesitancy also includes the fact that most people in Mass would push for my prosecution if it were not them or their loved ones that were the third party that was protected by my use of force.

An openly anti-2a person at work commented that he knew that I would protect him with my gun if the situation arose. He was amazed when I told him that I would not only stand by and watch but would also inform the person that I would not interfere if he was to rob, assault or murder the anti.
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When I hear this from a non LTC holder or better yet, an anti, I inform them they are on their own. This is because they have or had the same right to be able to defend themselves with a firearm as I, but they chose not to exercise their rights. Their problem, not mine, and stay out of my way if the SHTF some day!
 
VetteGirlMA said:
I've had lefties say the same thing to me, that because I'm armed I'm going to protect them. I told them flat out the only thing I'm doing is whipping out my cell phone to capture your dying moment. In this state if you think I'm going to go to jail for some leftie then someone is smoking the wrong stuff. I can imagine the scenario, save a lefty from a violent bipoc attack, stop imminent death and afterwards they say "you didn't have to kill the poor little dindunuffin" and with that testimony I'm facing life in prison. The less liberals on this planet the better this planet will be. There's nothing to gained saving the life of arrogant cowards. Thank goodness the left is sterilizing itself (vasectomies, tube ties and sex reassignment surgeries) into oblivion. In a few hundred years they will all be gone.
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Like I say to my liberal friends, The BLM and rainbow signs in your front yard aren't going to save you when they come for you...
 
VetteGirlMA said:
I've had lefties say the same thing to me, that because I'm armed I'm going to protect them. I told them flat out the only thing I'm doing is whipping out my cell phone to capture your dying moment. In this state if you think I'm going to go to jail for some leftie then someone is smoking the wrong stuff. I can imagine the scenario, save a lefty from a violent bipoc attack, stop imminent death and afterwards they say "you didn't have to kill the poor little dindunuffin" and with that testimony I'm facing life in prison. The less liberals on this planet the better this planet will be. There's nothing to gained saving the life of arrogant cowards. Thank goodness the left is sterilizing itself (vasectomies, tube ties and sex reassignment surgeries) into oblivion. In a few hundred years they will all be gone.
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The left reproduces by colonizing the mind of *your* children.

And of course they have at least some children of their own, even if less than others.
 
M1911 said:
Apparently there is some history of regulating storage of black powder in homes in at least one city, due to fire concerns.
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Most colonial villages in this neck of the woods had a powderhouse located centrally, where the lion's share of the town's powder was stored. There were a lot of reasons for that.
 
P51MA said:
The left reproduces by colonizing the mind of *your* children.

And of course they have at least some children of their own, even if less than others.
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That's today, in 50 years I will say the demographics are going to swing far away from the left. Whoever remains of the left will be medicated and kept in isolation tanks with VR goggles while they imagine that they are dolphin-sexuals, elves or king of the world in their own fantasy Meta universe where they ride in on a unicorn and blow fairy dust on bad guys. They will have human to peanut butter sandwich operations in their universe along with PB&J being new pronouns to describe them.

Demographically though the far left is not having children, but the far right is. Lots of people start off on the far left in life because it's the easiest place to start from. Everything else takes actual time to digest and understand, critical thinking and the ability to ask difficult questions about one's own personal motives or the realization of 'how do I wish the world to be' versus 'how the world really is'. Some people can never get past that, but by not breeding they are going to slowly disappear from the social consciousness and the population by their own hand. In several decades they will be angry, pissed off, middle aged, blue haired incels who deeply regret their sex change surgery and the resulting sterilization while they watch the conservative family happily playing with their kids at the park. Something they can never have. They will be even angrier when they realize that they will die alone with no one to be with them. It will anger them that they can never have that because they lived in a blue bubble where everyone golf clapped everyone else's madness as a leftie purity acceptance test and they themselves were golf clapped onto the operating room table and no one else would dare to whisper in their ears "are you sure you want this?". But they will remain largely ignored by everyone else, in much the same way that the 70 year old blue haired worn out hippie chick in aisle 5 of Whole Foods stomps her feet and stammers over the wilting kale is ignored today.
 
Picton said:
Lol. I hope not.

Central municipal storage of powder in the early 18th century is NOT the "text and history" I believe any of us wants to emphasize.
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Enforced? Sure.

But for everyone who wants socialized everything, what could be better than going to the powderhouse and picking up a couple boxes on the way to the range? I'm doing my duty as a member of the militia and going off to train. I want to draw on my share of our regulated materials.

Which is the long way of saying, I know that you're right; but if I'm going to pay taxes, that seems an almost acceptable use for some of it.
 
Mesatchornug said:
One of these days, this thing will return to its former glory

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Much as I enjoy walking in that park, it did make confiscation easier.

Powder Alarm[edit]​

Main article: Powder Alarm
Just after dawn on September 1, 1774, a force of roughly 260 British regulars from the 4th Regiment, under the command of Lieutenant Colonel George Maddison, were rowed in secrecy up the Mystic River from Boston to a landing point near Winter Hill. From there they marched about a mile to the Powder House, and after sunrise removed all of the gunpowder. Most of the regulars then returned to Boston the way they had come, but a small contingent marched on to Cambridge, seizing two field pieces from the Cambridge Common.[4] The field pieces and powder were then taken from Boston to the British stronghold on Castle Island, then known as Castle William (renamed Fort Independence in 1779).[5]

In response to the raid, amid rumors that blood had been shed, alarm spread through the countryside as far as Connecticut and beyond, and American Patriots sprang into action, fearing that war was at hand. Thousands of militiamen began streaming toward Boston and Cambridge, and mob action forced Loyalists and some government officials to flee to the protection of the British Army. This action provided a "dress rehearsal" for the Battles of Lexington and Concord seven months later in the famous "shot heard 'round the world". This did however, inflame already heated feelings on both sides and would spur actions by both British and American forces to secure both powder and cannon to secure locations.[6]
 
Wonder how this will do with the courts:

thehill.com

Biden ‘determined’ to renew assault weapons ban

President Biden on Monday capped off a celebration of a recently passed bipartisan gun safety law with a call to take further action, including a ban on assault weapons. Biden spoke to a crowd of h…
thehill.com thehill.com
 

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