Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

VetteGirlMA said:
Not so much the courts but what is happening is that states under the guise of 'text, history and tradition' are saying 1791 is not the correct date to use when analyzing 2A claims but 1868 is the correct date (the ratification of the 14th amendment). However regardless of the date, the 14th amendment did not modify the text of the second amendment so it should not be applied. I am guessing that by trying to trip up a judge the gun grabbers are hoping for a victory somewhere by 'redefining' the RKBA from 1791-1868 is an anomaly. Thankfully there are plenty of people who see past this and are already picking apart judge's decision, including the recent NY carrying guns in a church decision.
Click to expand...
Hope your right, time will tell.
 
Picton said:
As I and many others have said to you earlier (several times), you're not understanding that the Bruen decision was written in such a way that what's happened nationally (and in MA and the other shit states) over the past 35 years no longer matters. The level of legal scrutiny is now completely different, and all those laws will now be reexamined in light of a legal standard they cannot meet.

It's fine; I realize you're determined not to be convinced of any of this. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
I perfectly understand Picton, you don't have to explain that to me. I understood that from day one because the Good Sisters of ST. Joseph in Norwood taught me reading comprehension and I've read Justice Thomas's summary and read all the legal opinions from the highly educated NES posters here. It's the Leftist States of NY, NJ, CA, etc. that are challenging the decision and need convincing not me. The Pols in these liberal States have declared they will not comply and they are backing it up with legal challenges and more restrictive laws to dissuade citizens from applying for an LTC.
After Heller we all celebrated and also after MacDonald and how did that work out for us? Yes I know Thomas wrote his opinion so that States would have a hard time denying citizens their 2A rights and that's where we are now. THEY are challenging the ruling, not me.
 
SFC13557 said:
The Pols in these liberal States have declared they will not comply and they are backing it up with legal challenges and more restrictive laws to dissuade citizens from applying for an LTC.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah.

But you're one of the ones coming on here and giving them credibility by agreeing that they'll somehow defeat Bruen. Why are you doing that?

And, again, mentioning Heller is fine... but useless. Because, AGAIN, the legal standard articulated in Bruen is just not the same as the one articulated in Heller. It's much more restrictive. So you mentioning those older cases as if they have something to do with Bruen is like saying France had no chance to win at Verdun because, y'know, they lost the French and Indian War.

The two have nothing to do with each other. The game changed in between. Bruen changed the game similarly. So quit moping about how things went in the past. This is no longer the past.
 
Hoover said:
The issue with the NY law and why there are court challenges is SCOTUS said general things but nothing specific. They said you can’t make everyone a sensitive place, you can’t make the island of Manhattan a sensitive place. They said licensing requirements are ok but no specifics. NY passed that asinine law, now the courts will have a say in what is allowed by NYSRPA and what is not.
Click to expand...
Thankfully Hochul has a case of run of mouth .
Going to be hard to explain away her very public statements as a "Concern for public safety " in front of a judge.
 
Dadstoys said:
Thankfully Hochul has a case of run of mouth .
Going to be hard to explain away her very public statements as a "Concern for public safety " in front of a judge.
Click to expand...
Sort of the same way they explained chamber loaded indicators are not chamber loaded indicators in front of a judge here in MA? Or, how they said all options were not exhausted, if they didn't use the inheritance option? You see, when there is a certain slant on EVERYTHING, it just kind of leans thatta way.
 
Coyote33 said:
Sort of the same way they explained chamber loaded indicators are not chamber loaded indicators in front of a judge here in MA? Or, how they said all options were not exhausted, if they didn't use the inheritance option? You see, when there is a certain slant on EVERYTHING, it just kind of leans thatta way.
Click to expand...

Well scotus did say that rights balancing cannot be used any longer. The government must produce a law writing around the time of the founding that justifies the decision. The burden is not on the person but the state to find a similar law passed in 1791. If they can't the law must be struck down. Of course states will probably find left wing judges willing to ignore scotus, but that won't get very far since individual justices cover the circuits. The biggest slap in the face now is a GVR since it's not just the state, but all states within the circuit. New York is going undo gun control in the entire second circuit. It should be fun to watch. In the meantime there will be more decisions on the magazine bans, etc to pile on top.
 
Coyote33 said:
Sort of the same way they explained chamber loaded indicators are not chamber loaded indicators in front of a judge here in MA? Or, how they said all options were not exhausted, if they didn't use the inheritance option? You see, when there is a certain slant on EVERYTHING, it just kind of leans thatta way.
Click to expand...
I'm betting a lot of these will be refiled.
 
Coyote33 said:
Sort of the same way they explained chamber loaded indicators are not chamber loaded indicators in front of a judge here in MA? Or, how they said all options were not exhausted, if they didn't use the inheritance option? You see, when there is a certain slant on EVERYTHING, it just kind of leans thatta way.
Click to expand...
Plus, the inheritance option would not work since an FID does not cover a handgun in the home. But, since the ADA claimed such at the hearing, it would provide a nice entrapment by estoppel defense for any person with only an FID being charged for having an unlicensed handgun in the home, especially the plaintiff in this case.
 
Dadstoys said:
Thankfully Hochul has a case of run of mouth .
Going to be hard to explain away her very public statements as a "Concern for public safety " in front of a judge.
Click to expand...

She wasn’t alone, there were a lot of talkers in the legislature too.

NJ is the NY bill on steroids, it’s quite a bit worse. Those morons in NJ actually think it can survive the courts, they’re on crack.
 
milktree said:
Section 1983 violations do not result in jail time. Section 1983 violations are "rectified" with money. The money comes from the person who made the violation. That could be a cop or civil servant or whatever, in his *PERSONAL* capacity. Not the state, not the police department. That's the threat. That if an official violates your rights (and knows they did, which is the case with Bruen) they cannot claim immunity. When they lose, they lose really, really big. It's a huge risk and none of those donks are willing to sacrifice their retirement savings and house and everything for a political stunt.

The fact that it hasn't happened yet is just because the court system is slow.
Click to expand...

Oh we'll rectify them. Rectify them with a rusty fence post. LOL

SFC13557 said:
Maybe, I hope you're right but as a Ma. resident and LTC holder for over 35 yrs. I've seen the illegal decrees/restrictions this State has imposed on us with no legal repercussions. AG's restricted gun roster, Maura's "ban" on AR's, Towns and cities making up their own "rules" for applying, receiving a LTC, Restricted Firearms licenses, etc. Different rules in different Towns/Cities for applying/renewing.
No Loon, just a jaded 67 yr old Ma**h*** who has seen/watched Ma. Pols pull every trick in the book on us and get away with it. :cool:
Click to expand...

My bad. I've got my son's cold. "You'll" look like a loon - like teh anti-2A people will look like loons. Not you. Them. You're not a loon. Hell, even if you are, you're on our side. ROFL!!!
 
SFC13557 said:
Maybe, I hope you're right but as a Ma. resident and LTC holder for over 35 yrs. I've seen the illegal decrees/restrictions this State has imposed on us with no legal repercussions. AG's restricted gun roster, Maura's "ban" on AR's, Towns and cities making up their own "rules" for applying, receiving a LTC, Restricted Firearms licenses, etc. Different rules in different Towns/Cities for applying/renewing.
No Loon, just a jaded 67 yr old Ma**h*** who has seen/watched Ma. Pols pull every trick in the book on us and get away with it. :cool:
Click to expand...
We all hope the NES optimists among us turn out to be right and that Massachusetts will turn into a completely changed bastion of freedom and gun rights because of Bruen. Only problem is that pesky, one-party, 100% anti-2A MA Legislature that has vowed to punish us next session for past offenses to what they see as the "spirit" or "intent" of the law as well as to Dimples the Tyrant's infamous copycat decree. I'm not going to lay it all out here, but Jason Guida did a good job of it on his FacePlant page. Anyone who thinks things are going to get better before they first get a lot worse is dreaming. 🤔
 
"Well, yeah.

But you're one of the ones coming on here and giving them credibility by agreeing that they'll somehow defeat Bruen. Why are you doing that?"

HUH!
The NY Governor and her Minions vowed to ignore the Bruen decision and passed a Law to double down on their refusal to comply with the Supreme Court decision. I believe them unlike you and am wargaming their decision and the potential consequences. I am relying on my 35 yrs. of experience watching and dealing with anti-
gun Dems and their decisions and actions. The Leftists have stated they will not obey laws they don't agree with. When/If they wave the white flag and surrender/comply we can all celebrate, but as I said I'll believe it when Greg Gutfeld and Dagan McDowell tell me on FOX that they have applied and received their LTC's to carry a firearm in NY and NYC.

Credibility?

Kathy Hochul is the Governor of NY, not only does she have credibility she's the highest ranking Public official in NY and has mucho power to influence what happens in NY especially on the 2A rights of NY citizens.

You guys seem to be focusing on shooting the messenger instead of the situation which is, I REPEAT, NY's refusal to comply with the Supreme Court decision on Bruen and their passing a law to not only refuse to comply but doubling down by issuing/passing a law restricting the rights of NY citizens to carry a firearm in public.

Balls in their court!
 
Dennis in MA said:
Oh we'll rectify them. Rectify them with a rusty fence post. LOL



My bad. I've got my son's cold. "You'll" look like a loon - like teh anti-2A people will look like loons. Not you. Them. You're not a loon. Hell, even if you are, you're on our side. ROFL!!!
Click to expand...
HAH! HAH!

It's all good and I'm sure 90% of Ma**h***s think I'm a total Loon as well as a Deplorable Mega Maga, semi-Fascist gun carrying Terrorist.
 
He's backed off the 75% thing, at least for now.

However, he has brought in software developers from Tesla to sit down with the Twitter software developers to review the Twitter source code. That could be to examine the algorithms for blocking and banning people. Or it could be to see how complex code is and how many Twitter developers can be let go.

SFC13557 said:
Only to gun hating, free speech hating Leftists who now are having a breakdown over Musk buying Twatter and threatening to fire 75% of the staff. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall in that board meeting? [rofl]
Click to expand...
 
Garys said:
He's backed off the 75% thing, at least for now.

However, he has brought in software developers from Tesla to sit down with the Twitter software developers to review the Twitter source code. That could be to examine the algorithms for blocking and banning people. Or it could be to see how complex code is and how many Twitter developers can be let go.
Click to expand...
Didn't he fire the CEO and CFO already?
 
Hoover said:
She wasn’t alone, there were a lot of talkers in the legislature too.

NJ is the NY bill on steroids, it’s quite a bit worse. Those morons in NJ actually think it can survive the courts, they’re on crack.
Click to expand...
I'm sure they know it won't it's just a f*ck you .
Let the pro 2A side spend time and money in court to overturn it.
 
SFC13557 said:
"Well, yeah.

But you're one of the ones coming on here and giving them credibility by agreeing that they'll somehow defeat Bruen. Why are you doing that?"

HUH!
The NY Governor and her Minions vowed to ignore the Bruen decision and passed a Law to double down on their refusal to comply with the Supreme Court decision. I believe them unlike you and am wargaming their decision and the potential consequences. I am relying on my 35 yrs. of experience watching and dealing with anti-
gun Dems and their decisions and actions. The Leftists have stated they will not obey laws they don't agree with. When/If they wave the white flag and surrender/comply we can all celebrate, but as I said I'll believe it when Greg Gutfeld and Dagan McDowell tell me on FOX that they have applied and received their LTC's to carry a firearm in NY and NYC.

Credibility?

Kathy Hochul is the Governor of NY, not only does she have credibility she's the highest ranking Public official in NY and has mucho power to influence what happens in NY especially on the 2A rights of NY citizens.

You guys seem to be focusing on shooting the messenger instead of the situation which is, I REPEAT, NY's refusal to comply with the Supreme Court decision on Bruen and their passing a law to not only refuse to comply but doubling down by issuing/passing a law restricting the rights of NY citizens to carry a firearm in public.

Balls in their court!
Click to expand...
Think of it as the guy who won't stop running his mouth till you take your jacket off and start rolling up your sleeves.
Then he bitches out .
 
SFC13557 said:
You guys seem to be focusing on shooting the messenger instead of the situation which is, I REPEAT, NY's refusal to comply with the Supreme Court decision on Bruen and their passing a law to not only refuse to comply but doubling down by issuing/passing a law restricting the rights of NY citizens to carry a firearm in public.
Click to expand...

Have you been reading any posts but mine in the past seventeen pages or so?

MANY of us are focusing on that NY law. But we're also focusing on how Bruen relates to it, rather than just wailing and gnashing our teeth about how butthurt we are because Hochul, a statist moonbat, did what statist moonbats always do.

You don't seem to be focusing enough on what will happen once this law advances in the federal courts. Nor do you seem to be understanding that nobody is being arrested or prosecuted under this law. That should tell you something.

But, again, you can lead a horse to water. You've been led.
 
Dadstoys said:
Think of it as the guy who won't stop running his mouth till you take your jacket off and start rolling up your sleeves.
Then he bitches out .
Click to expand...
We'll see, but even if they issue LTC's and the law banning carrying in public places is in effect, it's almost useless which I'm sure is part of the plan.
 
Picton said:
Have you been reading any posts but mine in the past seventeen pages or so?

MANY of us are focusing on that NY law. But we're also focusing on how Bruen relates to it, rather than just wailing and gnashing our teeth about how butthurt we are because Hochul, a statist moonbat, did what statist moonbats always do.

You don't seem to be focusing enough on what will happen once this law advances in the federal courts. Nor do you seem to be understanding that nobody is being arrested or prosecuted under this law. That should tell you something.

But, again, you can lead a horse to water. You've been led.
Click to expand...
Yes I am, I've been doing this since I received my first LTC in the early 90's in Littleton. I remember every dirty anti-gun trick The Feds and States have pulled on us
especially the People's Republic of Ma.
But first things first, making NY squeal and comply with the Bruen decision.
You want to fantasize about 10-20 yrs from now when all the BS gun laws are either repealed or left to expire.
I don't expect much to change for the better in Ma. during the next 5-10 yrs as far as gun laws. Maybe the hi-cap ban goes away but I doubt it and maybe Maura's illegal AR "ban" goes away but I'm not holding my breath. I don't see SCOTUS taking on the AWB State Bans in the near future either.
I don't see a new AK in my future in Ma., do you?

PS,
I know you're a student of Military History, I just bought the new Trilogy of Bruce Catton books on the Civil War. The Library of America combined his 3 books into one, The Army of the Potomac Trilogy.
It includes "Mr. Lincoln"s Army", "Glory Road", and A Stillness at Appomattox".
$39.99 at Amazon
 
Last edited:
Federal courts are already looking at this and the states are going to take a hit. At the time of the framing of the Constitution people carried guns just about everywhere. Read Clayton Cramer's "Armed America."

IIRC, some churches required adults to bring their arms to church on Sunday so that they could be checked for compliance with militia regulations. The militias drilled on Boston Commons even before the Revolution.

The Revolution started in large part because the British were trying to confiscate arms from the Colonials. The Second Amendment could well have been the First Amendment because the right to keep and bear arms was so important at the time.

All of which is what Justice Thomas was saying in his opinion. He's been consistent about that all along and CJ Roberts gave him his head when he selected him to write the lead opinion.

Over the next couple of years we are going to see the cascading effect of NYSRPA v Bruen across the country. Shall Issue is not the end, it's merely the beginning. Many judges at the District and Circuit levels may not have their hearts in it, but they will follow the dictate of SCOTUS. Judges don't like it when their decisions are overturned, so they will tread lightly. They may drag their feet a bit, but once a case is GVRed, the handwriting is clearly on the wall.

Be as stubborn as you want, just like the Leftist politicians, but this is going to happen.

SFC13557 said:
We'll see, but even if they issue LTC's and the law banning carrying in public places is in effect, it's almost useless which I'm sure is part of the plan.
Click to expand...
 
SFC13557 said:
Yes I am, I've been doing this since I received my first LTC in the early 90's in Littleton. I remember every dirty anti-gun trick The Feds and States have pulled on us
especially the People's Republic of Ma.
But first things first, making NY squeal and comply with the Bruen decision.
You want to fantasize about 10-20 yrs from now when all the BS gun laws are either repealed or left to expire.
I don't expect much to change for the better in Ma. during the next 5-10 yrs as far as gun laws. Maybe the hi-cap ban goes away but I doubt it and maybe Maura's illegal AR "ban" goes away but I'm not holding my breath. I don't see SCOTUS taking on the AWB State Bans in the near future either.
I don't see a new AK in my future in Ma., do you?

PS,
I know you're a student of Military History, I just bought the new Trilogy of Bruce Catton books on the Civil War. The Library of America combined his 3 books into one, The Army of the Potomac Trilogy.
It includes "Mr. Lincoln"s Army", "Glory Road", and A Stillness at Appomattox".
$39.99 at Amazon
Click to expand...
Doing exactly what? Were you part of the group led by @HKdrummer that met at my house in 2013, planned and executed a grass roots effort that successfully pushed back some seriously bad bills? How many of the "listening sessions" did you attend? Did the politicians great you by name when you arrived?


As to you comment on SCOTUS and state AWBs:
The Cali Mag limit was GVR's
The NJ Mag limit was GVR'd
The Maryland AWB was GVR'd
ON CONSIDERATION WHEREOF, it is ordered and adjudged by this Court that the petition for writ of certiorari is granted. The judgment of the above court in this cause is vacated with costs, and the case is remanded to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit for further consideration in light of New York State Rifle & Pistol Assn., Inc. v. Bruen, 597 U.S. ___ (2022). IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the petitioners, Dominic Bianchi, et al., recover from Brian Frosh, Attorney General of Maryland, et al., Three Hundred Dollars ($300.00) for costs herein expended.
Click to expand...
SCOTUS made Maryland pay costs - a pittance but that's something.

Now it's on the Docket for Dec 6
Maryland's case is essentially that the 4th ruled that assault weapons were outside the 2nd's protection prior to Bruen and that should stand but if it doesn't then send the case back to district to rehear and gives the same recounting of mass shootings as evidence that have been rejected elsewhere.

This is the same as California where they are simply trying to run out the clock and delay - but that delay is going to end fast. In California, handing the case back to the same court that found against California's ban will result in a quick response since it was decided on TH&T so the district court's finding still holds
Maryland's AWAB will be on deaths door by mid spring unless the state can get the 4th to remand to district.
 

Attachments

Similar threads

Garland v. VanDerStok
Replies
0
Views
113
lutstribe
L
Supreme Court decision on rifle bans
Replies
9
Views
738
Tartakovsky
Tartakovsky
Supreme Court ending permits
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Dennis in MA
Dennis in MA
Worcester State Court Gun Policy
Replies
12
Views
453
Mark from ?
M
Is it time yet for a "Why is there even a dealer classifieds" Megathread?
Replies
12
Views
266
Individualist
Individualist
Back
Top Bottom