Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

[Rob Boudrie]

I not sure about that, as long as there is a carveout for “security personal” they’ll be happy. The truly elite don’t carry themselves, they just hire people for that (look at Bloomberg).

No carveout needed - sinecure for retired NYPD officers who have both LESOA and "Fully carry permit" eligibility to rent out their credentials.

Sean Penn; Joyce Brothers; Howard Stern; Arthur Schlessigner, a pre-politics Donald Trump, Steve Tyler and quite a few other illuminaries all had NYPD "full carry" permits as does an attorney in that area I have dealt with on numerous occasions (He even pulled it off with an upstate NY address). There are classes of people for whom an entourage is a status symbol, and others like the quietly wealthy may not want to rent privileged people to watch their every move. The diamond merchants who probably qualify for carry permits under the NYPD regime may not want the expense of a personal +1

 

[cathouse01]

No carveout needed - sinecure for retired NYPD officers who have both LESOA and "Fully carry permit" eligibility to rent out their credentials.

Sean Penn; Joyce Brothers; Howard Stern; Arthur Schlessigner, a pre-politics Donald Trump, Steve Tyler and quite a few other illuminaries all had NYPD "full carry" permits as does an attorney in that area I have dealt with on numerous occasions (He even pulled it off with an upstate NY address). There are classes of people for whom an entourage is a status symbol, and others like the quietly wealthy may not want to rent privileged people to watch their every move. The diamond merchants who probably qualify for carry permits under the NYPD regime may not want the expense of a personal +1

True, but I don’t consider any of them part of the current political elites, and those are the ones who control the carry laws. I’m pretty sure almost no one in the N.Y. state legislature gives a rats ass about Jewish diamond merchants, but they care a great deal about Bloomberg. Wealth doesn’t necessarily buy you into the progressive political elite class.

 

[SFC13557]

@Waher answered it. You’ll see video on the news some time of justice Roberts leaving his house in the morning. He gets into an SUV and someone is holding a door for him, they are his security. At the court, there is a parking area under the building, a retractable bollard security gate, etc.

It’s beyond asinine a liberal group published the justices addresses.

Beyond SCOTUS, there were dozens of conservative judges out on the 2nd highest court, the circuit courts of appeals. Over 1/2 of them have a major of GOP nominated judges now.

Yes I know but what about home security? Remember the nutjob who showed up at the Federal Judges home fairly recently and shot her son who answered the door. I would NOT put it past one of these fanatics to attack family members and think an attack justified. These people are fueled by the Dem party and CNN/MSNBC, just listen to the outrage of these functional idiots.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

I don’t see the MA legislature reducing the requirements to the “least common denominator”. I see them upping the requirements to match that of the most extreme town. Must have live fire training, must pass a live fire qualification test, must have two letters of reference, must have a certificate of mental health. They’re not going to make it easier for the “plebs” to get a license, they’ll just make it harder for everyone.

Additional food for a new lawsuit aimed at ending permit-to-purchase which is the other unconstitutional side of the LTC in MA.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Additional food for a new lawsuit aimed at ending permit-to-purchase which is the other unconstitutional side of the LTC in MA.

The state has no record of a PTP ever being issued, but has used its existence to argue that an FID is not the lowest form of licensing that meets Heller

 

[Coyote33]

The state has no record of a PTP ever being issued, but has used its existence to argue that an FID is not the lowest form of licensing that meets Heller

The existence of something non-existent. How Massachusetts!

 

[LittleCalm]

Additional food for a new lawsuit aimed at ending permit-to-purchase which is the other unconstitutional side of the LTC in MA.

You also mean no more waiting 6 months for a non-res permit? Dang…

 

[Hoover]

Yes I know but what about home security? Remember the nutjob who showed up at the Federal Judges home fairly recently and shot her son who answered the door. I would NOT put it past one of these fanatics to attack family members and think an attack justified. These people are fueled by the Dem party and CNN/MSNBC, just listen to the outrage of these functional idiots.

There are definitely plenty of crazy leftists out there and the dem leaders like pelosi, Schumer etc stir them up rather than calming them.


The federal judge was a Hispanic woman in NJ I believe. She was only a district court judge. The nut killed her son and shot her husband then offed himself. I believe she dismissed a case of his years before.

 

[Hoover]

True, but I don’t consider any of them part of the current political elites, and those are the ones who control the carry laws. I’m pretty sure almost no one in the N.Y. state legislature gives a rats ass about Jewish diamond merchants, but they care a great deal about Bloomberg. Wealth doesn’t necessarily buy you into the progressive political elite class.

The Massachusetts legislature certainly is anti gun but they’re not nearly as active passing gun control as crazy states like California, NJ, MD. California seems to pass at least one or two new gun control laws each year and they seem to be the creator of some of the craziest ideas. The Massachusetts legislature ignores linskys stupid bills every year.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

On the arbitrary nature of the current licensing scheme. I think kagan and Breyer may find the current unconstitutional but be ok with a different scheme. Won’t matter because they certainly won’t want to go as far as the 5 or 6 in the majority.

Kagan would be more likely to have problems with the subjective aspect of NY's law. Breyer is all about squishy interest balancing, I hold out no hope for him at all.

Kagan, who I really like and respect, will have problems with subjective licensing. But I think she's hobbled by this mass hysteria kind of feeling that so many people have about guns. They're just uneasy with the thought that any law abiding person could be carrying a gun in public. The fact that the vast majority of the country has shall issue or constitutional carry is lost on them. They are so grounded in their own coastal realities that they tink those 'fly over' states are all like rural Idaho. They have not concept that even in many big cities, citizens carry every single day and nothing happens becuase of it. Just think about here comments about the NYU 'campus'.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

The Massachusetts legislature certainly is anti gun but they’re not nearly as active passing gun control as crazy states like California, NJ, MD. California seems to pass at least one or two new gun control laws each year and they seem to be the creator of some of the craziest ideas. The Massachusetts legislature ignores linskys stupid bills every year.

I've always felt that the MA legislature really liked a system that favored the well connected, which is what the MA licensing has traditionally done. But that also benefits just enough of the right people that trying go all CA, NY or NJ would be extremely painful. They started in that direction in 2014 and our team did a good job ringing the phones on Beacon hill.

 

[Hoover]

I've always felt that the MA legislature really like a system that favored the well connected, which is what the MA licensing has traditionally done. But that also benefits just enough of the right people that trying go all CA, NY or NJ would be extremely painful. They started in that direction in 2014 and our team did a good job ringing the phones on Beacon hill.

I also think MA is a bit like Illinois. The dems have total control and care most about getting family members no show jobs and plundering as much money as they can. Set asides for unions so the unions fund their campaigns etc. they look at the loony stuff CA does a distraction from plundering.

 

[Dennis in MA]

The dem part has been hijacked by the far left and the leaders of the dem party are terrified of those loon. 10 years ago the savior of the country and dem party, the sainted Obama, was against gay marriage.

Now the loudest voices in the dem party and the leadership are ok with 5 yr old transgender kids, puberty blockers to kids, guys who “identify “ as a girl dominating woman sports, abortion on demand up to the millisecond before birth, defunding police, etc.

The dem party is controlled by a lunatic fringe. Bernie sander was a loon to the dem leaders 10 years ago and now they all take his positions on issues.

I would say on many issues, historical Bernie Sanders is a centrist now. LOL

I'm pretty sure the price of heating oil,food,and gas is going to pretty much "Trump" most any thing else short of a nuclear war right now.

Let's hope it's DeSantis'd and not Trump'd. He needs to go sit down and shut up.

Then look at MA. I live in MA, rigorously obey all the firearms related laws and yet still own everything from a pre ban AR (with all the evil features) to a .50 BMG and several handguns. From the SJC’s point of view, my ability to own firearms for selfdefense has not been significantly infringed. They don’t care that, from my point of view, licensing requirements, Assault Weapons Bans, magazine limits, arbitrary “suitability” requirements, ridiculous “Consumer Protection” requirements, etc all infringe on my Right to Keep and Bear Arms. They look at it and ask “Can he get a handgun?” Yup, as long as he lives in a “green" town (and a narrow finding in NY State Rifle & Pistol Assn. v. City of NY would probably force the State to more rigorously codify its arbitrary “suitability” requirement and enforce a standard application process, thus eliminating the concept of a “green” town). They ask “Can he get a modern rifle?” Sure, he can get a Mini 14, even the big 2A supporters say that the Mini 14 is just as lethal as the AR 15.

Hopefully I’m wrong and they will take this opportunity to declare that any law infringing on the 2A must undergo “strict scrutiny” and be narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling state interest. But I’m afraid the Roe reversal actually will make this less likely.

I would say your ability to own has been significantly infringed. A "normal" person in a "free" state could build an AR with more evil features than you'll ever see for 1/3 of what you can buy yours for. YOU specifically may not be infringed b/c you have the capital to "pay off" the infringers. What about the poor slob driving a bus for a living who can only afford 800 for an AR so is effectively priced out of the market? We get back to that "equal" thing again.

Lol the Facebook women in my life are all up in arms about it. They were all voting D anyways so I’m not surprised.

Yeah. The chimpscreamers (on both sides of the aisle) always will chimpscream. And it will LOOK LIKE they are "winning." Again I point to the P-Hat Parades. To what end??? What did it accomplish? Same here. You can protest all you want. By the time November rolls around, people will have forgotten it. And we might be a quarter into a recession by then for all we know.

 

[cathouse01]

I would say your ability to own has been significantly infringed. A "normal" person in a "free" state could build an AR with more evil features than you'll ever see for 1/3 of what you can buy yours for. YOU specifically may not be infringed b/c you have the capital to "pay off" the infringers. What about the poor slob driving a bus for a living who can only afford 800 for an AR so is effectively priced out of the market? We get back to that "equal" thing again.

Absolutely agree. I did say “from my point of view" my RKBA was being infringed. I was just saying that even some of the conservatives on the court might say it hasn’t been infringed “that badly”. I also agree that one of the better arguments against all the restrictions is the old “Disparate Impact” one.

Disparate impact in United States labor law refers to practices in employment, housing, and other areas that adversely affect one group of people of a protected characteristic more than another, even though rules applied by employers or landlords are formally neutral.

Take the case of two employees of Beth Isreal. One is a white male high end plastic surgeon who drives to work every day from his home in Harvard in his BMW and parks in the attached garage. The other is a black single mother of two who works as a nurses aid on the night shift and takes the bus from her home in Roxbury, walking 2 blocks in the dark to/from her bus stop. Who is going to have no problem getting a LTC and who will have more need of a carry gun?

 

[crispnipz]

Let's hope it's DeSantis'd and not Trump'd. He needs to go sit down and shut up.

Let's not get into it fully but as much as I like DeSantis and would love him or Trump for POTUS, FL is very important at the state level and do we really want to sacrifice such a good governor?

Take the case of two employees of Beth Isreal. One is a white male high end plastic surgeon who drives to work every day from his home in Harvard in his BMW and parks in the attached garage. The other is a black single mother of two who works as a nurses aid on the night shift and takes the bus from her home in Roxbury, walking 2 blocks in the dark to/from her bus stop. Who is going to have no problem getting a LTC and who will have more need of a carry gun?

Race can be left out of it, I'm white and had to walk in the dark from the JFK/UMass stop at night a bit under a mile down Mt Vernon Street and couldn't get a good boy card when I arguably might have needed it, now in Melrose I will definitely get it but will not need it.

 

[cathouse01]

Race can be left out of it, I'm white and had to walk in the dark from the JFK/UMass stop at night a bit under a mile down Mt Vernon Street and couldn't get a good boy card when I arguably might have needed it, now in Melrose I will definitely get it but will not need it.

Race should be left out of it, but the “woke progressive" will always make it related to race. The only “Disparate Impact” they recognize is one that they can somehow tie to race or gender.

 

[Hoover]

Let's not get into it fully but as much as I like DeSantis and would love him or Trump for POTUS, FL is very important at the state level and do we really want to sacrifice such a good governor?


Race can be left out of it, I'm white and had to walk in the dark from the JFK/UMass stop at night a bit under a mile down Mt Vernon Street and couldn't get a good boy card when I arguably might have needed it, now in Melrose I will definitely get it but will not need it.

I hope you’re joking. DeSantis can do a ton more as POTUS than as governor of Florida. Florida has been trending red for decades, they’ll have plenty of options for good governors to replace DeSantis if he becomes POTUS. Besides his term would be up in 2026 as governor, so he’d only be giving up 2 years.

 

[Roadglide]

Absolutely agree. I did say “from my point of view" my RKBA was being infringed. I was just saying that even some of the conservatives on the court might say it hasn’t been infringed “that badly”. I also agree that one of the better arguments against all the restrictions is the old “Disparate Impact” one.

Take the case of two employees of Beth Isreal. One is a white male high end plastic surgeon who drives to work every day from his home in Harvard in his BMW and parks in the attached garage. The other is a black single mother of two who works as a nurses aid on the night shift and takes the bus from her home in Roxbury, walking 2 blocks in the dark to/from her bus stop. Who is going to have no problem getting a LTC and who will have more need of a carry gun?

I'd say the white doctor. If I'm some thug looking to rip someone off I'm going for the BMW

 

[crispnipz]

I hope you’re joking. DeSantis can do a ton more as POTUS than as governor of Florida. Florida has been trending red for decades, they’ll have plenty of options for good governors to replace DeSantis if he becomes POTUS. Besides his term would be up in 2026 as governor, so he’d only be giving up 2 years.

Can he though? There is a ton more inertia at the federal level than at the state level, especially because in agreeing with your view that FL is getting redder, now is the time to do stuff (like they're about to do CC, they just did a tax cut). FL is literally swampy but the DC swamp runs deeper. It's a tough call.

 

[Hoover]

Can he though? There is a ton more inertia at the federal level than at the state level, especially because in agreeing with your view that FL is getting redder, now is the time to do stuff (like they're about to do CC, they just did a tax cut). FL is literally swampy but the DC swamp runs deeper. It's a tough call.

DeSantis will be re-elected this fall and even if he runs for POTUS and wins, he’ll be in power in Florida until January 2025. He has plenty of time to sign constitutional carry and other bills. He’s leaving the governors office at the end of 2026 at the latest, so he’s only giving up 2 years as governor.

DeSantis is very different than trump in 2017. DeSantis was a congressman, so he understands the workings of DC much more than trump did in 2017, he’s been a governor of the 3rd largest state so he has executive experience and experience working with a legislature. Personality wise DeSantis is much smarter than trump, very calm and calculating where as trump is chaotic and lacks focus. DeSantis also has the ability to expand the electorate and get more GOP house and senate candidates elected. Dems has a lot of seats in the senate up in 2024 including red states like Montana and West Virginia. Like it or not, trump is liked and disliked by about the same percentage of people. If trump won in 2024 it wouldn’t be by much. DeSantis doesn’t have the negatives trump does and can win by a comfortable margin and carry down ballot candidates with him.

 

[Horrible]

So, do we expect to hear ruling on this case in June? Or will there be another leak to rile up the base with more cities burned?

 

[crispnipz]

DeSantis is very different than trump in 2017. DeSantis was a congressman, so he understands the workings of DC much more than trump did in 2017, he’s been a governor of the 3rd largest state so he has executive experience and experience working with a legislature.

And now Trump has 4 years of DC experience.

Personality wise DeSantis is much smarter than trump

Baseless claim.

trump is chaotic

In many ways the former is a good thing (because Trump subscribes heavily to Sun Tzu's philosophy of never telegraphing your next move to the enemy.

and lacks focus.

Fair criticism.

DeSantis also has the ability to expand the electorate and get more GOP house and senate candidates elected. Dems has a lot of seats in the senate up in 2024 including red states like Montana and West Virginia.

Trump has a pretty darn good record with endorsements and carrying the ballot, does he not? I don't disagree that DeSantis can also do this but I don't think you can fairly say it about DeSantis but not Trump.

Like it or not, trump is liked and disliked by about the same percentage of people.

Most of the people who dislike him would begin to rabidly hate DeSantis the moment the media tells them to, and fortunately most of them live in blue shitholes like the commiewealth.

If trump won in 2024 it wouldn’t be by much. DeSantis doesn’t have the negatives trump does and can win by a comfortable margin and carry down ballot candidates with him.

I recall the EXACT same arguments being made about who could beat Hillary in 2016 and the pitch from Rubio/Cruz/Jeb/et al in the final stages of the primary boiled down to that. I do not believe Trump is as unpopular as you seem to perceive him as when you account for the fraudulent 2020 election and polling.

Regardless, it's important that someone good gets in. I would be happy with Trump or DeSantis, but I do not buy this Trump baggage narrative that is happening. I admit that Trump, in office, was tepid on 2A at best, but it is his judges and justices with whom we are on the precipice of a very important 2A victory.

 

[crispnipz]

So, do we expect to hear ruling on this case in June? Or will there be another leak to rile up the base with more cities burned?

I expect June, and frankly am surprised that, if there is already a draft that exists for this case opinion, that it was also not leaked with the abortion one.

 

[Hoover]

And now Trump has 4 years of DC experience.



Baseless claim.



In many ways the former is a good thing (because Trump subscribes heavily to Sun Tzu's philosophy of never telegraphing your next move to the enemy.



Fair criticism.



Trump has a pretty darn good record with endorsements and carrying the ballot, does he not? I don't disagree that DeSantis can also do this but I don't think you can fairly say it about DeSantis but not Trump.



Most of the people who dislike him would begin to rabidly hate DeSantis the moment the media tells them to, and fortunately most of them live in blue shitholes like the commiewealth.



I recall the EXACT same arguments being made about who could beat Hillary in 2016 and the pitch from Rubio/Cruz/Jeb/et al in the final stages of the primary boiled down to that. I do not believe Trump is as unpopular as you seem to perceive him as when you account for the fraudulent 2020 election and polling.

Regardless, it's important that someone good gets in. I would be happy with Trump or DeSantis, but I do not buy this Trump baggage narrative that is happening. I admit that Trump, in office, was tepid on 2A at best, but it is his judges and justices with whom we are on the precipice of a very important 2A victory.

Trump is and always has been unpopular https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html#polls

Elections are a binary choice, Hillary was as unpopular as he was and won a fairly close election. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/clinton_favorableunfavorable-1131.html#polls


Trump cannot expand the electorate in the general election. People have made up their mind about trump and they like or dislike him with very few persuadables. Who cares about endorsements in gauging how someone will do in the general election in 2024. Trump lost in 2020 because suburban woman really do not like him.

Glenn Youngkin did better in rural Virginia than trump, better in cities and better in the suburbs. DeSantis will win Florida this November by around 10%, trump won by 3%

DeSantis has had national media doing hit pieces on him for the past year non stop and nearly all the state media is against him. His popularity has improved.

If you don’t think DeSantis is much smarter than trump, you’ll crazy. Trump Isn’t a very smart person on most issues and his judgement in picking staff is bad to atrocious in many cases.

 

[Dadstoys]

Trump is and always has been unpopular https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html#polls

Elections are a binary choice, Hillary was as unpopular as he was and won a fairly close election. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/clinton_favorableunfavorable-1131.html#polls


Trump cannot expand the electorate in the general election. People have made up their mind about trump and they like or dislike him with very few persuadables. Who cares about endorsements in gauging how someone will do in the general election in 2024. Trump lost in 2020 because suburban woman really do not like him.

Glenn Youngkin did better in rural Virginia than trump, better in cities and better in the suburbs. DeSantis will win Florida this November by around 10%, trump won by 3%

DeSantis has had national media doing hit pieces on him for the past year non stop and nearly all the state media is against him. His popularity has improved.

If you don’t think DeSantis is much smarter than trump, you’ll crazy. Trump Isn’t a very smart person on most issues and his judgement in picking staff is bad to atrocious in many cases.

To be fair , Trump is unpopular with you.
The guy got 10 million more votes the second time around than the first.
That's not the sign of an unpopular man.
Let's not pretend that half of Biden's votes were legit.
Even if you took Trump out of the equation , when you ask people to believe that drooling mental defective got more legit votes than even Obama , that's a bridge too far.

 

[Tartakovsky]

To be fair , Trump is unpopular with you.
The guy got 10 million more votes the second time around than the first.
That's not the sign of an unpopular man.
Let's not pretend that half of Biden's votes were legit.
Even if you took Trump out of the equation , when you ask people to believe that drooling mental defective got more legit votes than even Obama , that's a bridge too far.

Agree 100%. We all know that massive fraud occurred in the 2020 election, which is why I’m skeptical about the midterms and 2024. If the dems rigged the 2020 election and the GA special election, they’ll do it again unless we get rid of dominion voting machines, get rid of universal mail in ballots, purge the voter rolls, and get rid of the liberal activists running the polling centers.

 

[xtry51]

Trump is and always has been unpopular https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html#polls

Elections are a binary choice, Hillary was as unpopular as he was and won a fairly close election. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/clinton_favorableunfavorable-1131.html#polls


Trump cannot expand the electorate in the general election. People have made up their mind about trump and they like or dislike him with very few persuadables. Who cares about endorsements in gauging how someone will do in the general election in 2024. Trump lost in 2020 because suburban woman really do not like him.

Glenn Youngkin did better in rural Virginia than trump, better in cities and better in the suburbs. DeSantis will win Florida this November by around 10%, trump won by 3%

DeSantis has had national media doing hit pieces on him for the past year non stop and nearly all the state media is against him. His popularity has improved.

If you don’t think DeSantis is much smarter than trump, you’ll crazy. Trump Isn’t a very smart person on most issues and his judgement in picking staff is bad to atrocious in many cases.

This is an absurd argument you repetitively put forward. If Trump so unpopular, why did he get 14% more votes in his second election?

 

[Hoover]

To be fair , Trump is unpopular with you.
The guy got 10 million more votes the second time around than the first.
That's not the sign of an unpopular man.
Let's not pretend that half of Biden's votes were legit.
Even if you took Trump out of the equation , when you ask people to believe that drooling mental defective got more legit votes than even Obama , that's a bridge too far.

Do you believe Hillary is popular? No.

Trump won POTUS by winning 80,000 more votes than Hillary in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania combined. He lost the popular vote by 2% and 3 million votes. Running against an extremely unlikable person like Hillary was a big help.

Was the 2020 election rigged before the actual voting through groups zuckerbergs registration group, big tech and media extreme bias. It was not rigged in the votes cast or counting to a degree it would shift the winner. Trumps legal team should have been filing lawsuits before the election regarding illegal election changes. His lawyers were morons.

Elected GOP politicians in AZ, MI, etc looked into the claims regarding illegal votes, etc and didn’t find them. Fraud happens in every election but it did amount to enough to change the outcome here.

 

[Hoover]

This is an absurd argument you repetitively put forward. If Trump so unpopular, why did he get 14% more votes in his second election?

And yet still lost. Look at his favorable/unfavorable, they have always been negative. That’s the definition of unpopular. Look at NES, what should be trumps base. A lot of people don’t like him but they like the majority of the policies and the alternative isn’t an option in the general election.

I know at least 2 dozen people who voted for trump because of the policies but think the person is repugnant.

biden was never and still isn’t popular. No one voted for biden, they voted against trump.

 

[Hoover]

Agree 100%. We all know that massive fraud occurred in the 2020 election, which is why I’m skeptical about the midterms and 2024. If the dems rigged the 2020 election and the GA special election, they’ll do it again unless we get rid of dominion voting machines, get rid of universal mail in ballots, purge the voter rolls, and get rid of the liberal activists running the polling centers.

trumps lawyer never made any claims in court, where false statements get you sanctioned, that the voting was rigged, dominion, etc.

If the voting was rigged, explain Virginia 2021 election and NJ 2021 state elections? Were they rigged?