Talk to me about DA/SA semiautomatics

StevieP

StevieP

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I have an M&P9c which is whatever it is. Striker-fired (?)

I have a Sig 1911 which is SAO

I have a S&W Model 66 revolver which is DA/SA. Wow is it nice to shoot in single-action!

I have a friend with a Sig (226?) in .40. It has the DA/SA trigger, so the first shot is double action, and then the trigger changes to SA with a short, smooth trigger pull. It is very nice to shoot at the range at a stationary target. Very accurate.

What's the consensus on this type of gun? Do people go out of their way to get a heavy, all-metal Beretta 92FS, or a Sig, or CZ model 75 with a DA/SA trigger? What are some other nice, full-size (9mm?) reliable, accurate guns with a sweet trigger?

Do you carry them? (safety on or off?) Or are these type guns relegated to home defense and range sessions? Are they better, worse, or the same as other types, for e.g. competition?

What are the arguments PRO and CON of a DA/SA pistol?
 
Sigs don't have safeties, at least not the common P226/P229 DA/SA models you're onto. Their 1911 models clearly do and maybe some other models.

You carry with one in the pipe in DA mode. Some like them, some don't. Some argue that it's hard to train having a gun with two tirgger pulls where the first is longer and harder and then follow up shots are different. dumb argument IMO. practice quickly removes any problem.

They're good for people who are for some batshit crazy reason afraid to carry a glock or glock clone with one in the pipe bc a 5lb trigger pull scares them. A first shot hard/long pull puts their mind at ease.

I like both designs and own guns in both. I love the smooth Sig SA pull. I dont think the DA pull is really all that bad either. I'll carry a sig any day. I'll carry an M&P or Glock any day too. All great guns. None will ever compare to a 1911 trigger though.
 
I love big metal DA/SA semi's. Seems to me to be a gun's gun. They are a pleasure to shoot in all calibers and easy to keep on target. My favorites that I own Sig P226, CZ 75, SW 39-2 and CZ P01. Well the P01 is not all that big...it is easily carried with the proper belt. I am sure all these firearms are carried. Only my SW has a safety...but I don't carry it anyway. And you are correct...all great bedside firearms.

Cons: I can't afford more...
 
I generally hate DA/SA at this point, about the only ones I can fathom buying are some of the custom shop CZs or the Sig Legion. Mainly because most of the DA/SA guns on the market have shitty triggers that annoy the piss out of me. It's not that they're not serviceable, accurate handguns just not my preference.

When I started shooting I went through this phase where I had a shitload of DA/SA guns. I had a ton of Sigs, HKs, and even a Beretta 92. They're all gone now. The only ones I really miss are some of the
old sigs I had... some of them either had trigger jobs done to them or the guns were just well used enough that the trigger felt good.

-Mike
 
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i love DA/SA. slightly higher training needed to run it well but i find the heavier first trigger pull to be a nice feature. i also feel more comfortable re-holstering a DA/SA because i can keep my thumb over the hammer. god forbid the trigger is being depressed the hammer will push back and i would stop the reholster. with a striker gun there is no such option so i insist on visualizing the trigger during reholstering.

that being said i'm not knocking a striker design in any way. i like them too.

this guy is sort of a dweeb but he hits on some good points re: the DA/SA:

 
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Some people like them. Some people don't. Lots of USPSA production shooters are gravitating towards DA/SA, specifically CZ or clones. Of course they have trigger jobs and very light trigger pulls.

I haven't found one that had a short enough DA trigger reach that I could easily manage.
 
For 9mm, I like the Sig 226 the best, with S&W 5906 next.

For .45 I like a 1911 the best. But I had a P220, and I liked it a ton as well. The only problem was for some reason my trigger
finger would get pinched by the trigger guard, just some peculiar mismatch of my index finger and the trigger and trigger guard.

I actually would like to get a P220 again, if I could find one with a slightly different trigger or guard shape.
 
Both types are fine, and you can win national championships with CZs and Tanfoglios as well as by slumming it with a Glock or M&P. It doesn't seem to matter much, just preference.
 
I've always preferred DA/SA over striker fired. Shoot both and see what you like, but I know my preference.
 
Coyote Whiskey said:
Another advantage of DA/SA, if you have a light strike on a primer and no bang, you can pull the trigger again before you tap/rack
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I will never understand why people think that is an advantage.

In a center fire defensive pistol, the proper response to a failure to fire is tap-rack-bang. The chance of a misfired center fire round discharging on a second strike are slim. You would be far better off spending that time getting a good round into the chamber than wasting time dropping the hammer in a round that isn't going to fire.
 
With my Sig 229 the DA/SA sequence is...miss... hit... hit... hit ;-)

Great gun but if I don't shoot it for awhile I always spend the first few mags re-learning the DA/SA transition.
 
EddieZoom said:
With my Sig 229 the DA/SA sequence is...miss... hit... hit... hit ;-)

Great gun but if I don't shoot it for awhile I always spend the first few mags re-learning the DA/SA transition.
Click to expand...

^this is key. I often see folks shooting their DA/SA pistol strictly in SA. personally i was trained to repeatedly practice the DA -> SA transition. i'm convinced this is largely where DA/SA pistols get their bad reputation....because so many folks only use the SA pull and when they start using the gun in defensive training scenario they say "this trigger sucks". on the contrary with a striker gun there's really no way to screw up one's training....the trigger is just, well, the trigger.

- - - Updated - - -

hminsky said:
But I had a P220, and I liked it a ton as well. The only problem was for some reason my trigger
finger would get pinched by the trigger guard, just some peculiar mismatch of my index finger and the trigger and trigger guard.

I actually would like to get a P220 again, if I could find one with a slightly different trigger or guard shape.
Click to expand...

did your P220 have the short reach trigger (not SRT which is pertaining to reset). the short reach trigger is standard on the sig 45acp models. many people don't like this trigger. it's much more curved than the standard P226/P229 trigger. they are fully swappable. i kinda prefer the standard trigger myself but dont bother changing out the short reach trigger on the P220 and P227.

another issue that pops up on the short reach trigger is if the shooter is wearing gloves sometimes the glove material can get behind the trigger and prevent the shot from breaking. this is partly why the original trigger was thick...works fine with gloved hand.

the short reach trigger is here on the left...this is the one that causes some folks problems like you describe:
http://www.realgunreviews.com/theres-no-trigger-in-a-short-reset-trigger-kit/

- - - Updated - - -

M1911 said:
In a center fire defensive pistol, the proper response to a failure to fire is tap-rack-bang. The chance of a misfired center fire round discharging on a second strike are slim. You would be far better off spending that time getting a good round into the chamber than wasting time dropping the hammer in a round that isn't going to fire.
Click to expand...

agree i remember the first time i heard the "second strike" logic and i was thinking to myself um...let's see...fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me!
 
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jhblaze1 said:
Sigs don't have safeties, at least not the common P226/P229 DA/SA models you're onto. Their 1911 models clearly do and maybe some other models.

You carry with one in the pipe in DA mode. Some like them, some don't. Some argue that it's hard to train having a gun with two tirgger pulls where the first is longer and harder and then follow up shots are different. dumb argument IMO. practice quickly removes any problem.

They're good for people who are for some batshit crazy reason afraid to carry a glock or glock clone with one in the pipe bc a 5lb trigger pull scares them. A first shot hard/long pull puts their mind at ease.

I like both designs and own guns in both. I love the smooth Sig SA pull. I dont think the DA pull is really all that bad either. I'll carry a sig any day. I'll carry an M&P or Glock any day too. All great guns. None will ever compare to a 1911 trigger though.
Click to expand...
hesright.jpg
 
I love my Beretta Vertec. It's what I shoot best with, and the recoil is so minimal it's wonderful. That said, I personally don't care much about the difference in trigger pull in a DAO like a Glock or the DA/SA of the Vertec.
I'm not operator enough to to know if my follow up shots are better with the Vertec because of the SA or if it's just a result of shooting it more often.
 
I had a 5906 that I just got rid of. It was a slide mounted DA/SA, meaning you could carry it in SA/no safety, DA/no safety, or DA/safe.

I got it because I liked the idea of a nice all steel 9mm for range use. It was accurate, reliable, and very low recoil.

I shot an IDPA match with it for fun, and that kind of convinced me it served no purpose for me.

I hate the DA pull. My first shot out of the holster was noticeably slower and less accurate with the 5906 than it is with my Glock. After that, the single action trigger is nice and smooth but it certainly isn't 1911 smooth, and really isn't any better than my Glock 34 (which has a few minor mods like polishing and some spring changes, but it's not a ZEV drop-in or anything).

I use only Glocks for self defense purposes. They're simple and reliable. I never think "gee, I wish I had an external safety on these" either -- with a proper holster and practice (which are fundamental to safe carry regardless of the pistol you choose), I have never come close to having a ND on a draw or reholstering.

All that being said, plenty of people prefer the DA/SA type gun over the striker fired types. You need to try one for yourself. It isn't inherently more or less safe than a striker fired gun, or SAO w/ safety. If you don't want to train yourself to flip off a safety lever on your draw, and don't like the feel of the plastic striker fired guns, then it's your remaining option for carry (in addition to DAO or a DA/SA wheel gun). I'll probably end up with a Sig P227 or something for a range toy at some point, but right now I prefer striker fired and SAO pistols.
 
thormx538 said:
I had a 5906 that I just got rid of. It was a slide mounted DA/SA, meaning you could carry it in SA/no safety, DA/no safety, or DA/safe.
.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that S&W Third Generation semi-autos were not designed to be carried with the chamber full and the hammer cocked.

The two choices for carrying the Third Generation guns is hammer down, safety on or hammer down, safety off.
 
M1911 said:
It is my understanding that S&W Third Generation semi-autos were not designed to be carried with the chamber full and the hammer cocked.

The two choices for carrying the Third Generation guns is hammer down, safety on or hammer down, safety off.
Click to expand...

Fair point -- carrying it in SA isn't a good idea. I should have worded it as the three conditions the gun can be placed in are SA, DA-safe, DA-no safe.
 
StevieP said:
I have an M&P9c which is whatever it is. Striker-fired (?)

I have a Sig 1911 which is SAO

I have a S&W Model 66 revolver which is DA/SA. Wow is it nice to shoot in single-action!

I have a friend with a Sig (226?) in .40. It has the DA/SA trigger, so the first shot is double action, and then the trigger changes to SA with a short, smooth trigger pull. It is very nice to shoot at the range at a stationary target. Very accurate.

What's the consensus on this type of gun? Do people go out of their way to get a heavy, all-metal Beretta 92FS, or a Sig, or CZ model 75 with a DA/SA trigger? What are some other nice, full-size (9mm?) reliable, accurate guns with a sweet trigger?

Do you carry them? (safety on or off?) Or are these type guns relegated to home defense and range sessions? Are they better, worse, or the same as other types, for e.g. competition?

What are the arguments PRO and CON of a DA/SA pistol?
Click to expand...

With all DA/SA weapons you have to be able to transition from a heavy trigger pull, which is usually around ten plus pounds to a sweet four to four and a half pounds. I find with my Beretta 92 and Sig P-225 I do very well, maybe because their triggers are so smooth. However with any other DA/SA, not so good. Being able to practice with just one pistol would be ideal. But for the most part I carry a striker fired pistol like a Glock 19 or my S&W 642 which is double action only, with those firearms there is no need to transition because every trigger pull is exactly the same.
 
jhblaze1 said:
I like both designs and own guns in both. I love the smooth Sig SA pull. I dont think the DA pull is really all that bad either. I'll carry a sig any day. I'll carry an M&P or Glock any day too. All great guns. None will ever compare to a 1911 trigger though.
Click to expand...

Same for me. Best trigger ever for me is on a 1911 worked over by the Colt custom shop. Next would actually be my Sig P220 Compact in SA mode. It has the SRT (short reach) option same as a Sig Legion, so probably there is some extra attention to detail. Close third followed by a relatively cheap R1 1911, then my Delta Elite.

For me, striker fired pistols just don't have triggers that compare to the above. I don't care if it's a modded Glock with Ghost this and Zev that, those triggers still blow compared to a nice 1911 or even a good Sig trigger. That said, I do like Glocks, Shields, etc. and pocket carry a G43 in summer, then the Sig for the rest of the year.

Not to draw fire and pull things off track, but personally I would never carry a modified striker fired pistol with one in the pipe. You can get a decent trigger action on a Glock via modification, but I don't trust the mods like I trust a factory trigger. Also, as long as I live in Mass, I don't want to have to defend myself twice (once with the pistol, next in court) with a modded "hair trigger" pistol.

I do like how easy it is to modify a striker fired pistol for competition and/or a range toy. Just be careful not to use the wrong connector or you might get a G18 surprise. [shocked]
 

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