Found this over on AR15.com
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Text Book Example of a Squib Load
- Thread starter copterdoctor
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Finalygotabeltfed
A subject that I've rarely seen mentioned in firearms classes and one that should be drilled into any new shooter's heads.
In that case is it even worth trying to tap out the round or just buy a new barrel? I think I would buy a new one as I couldn't trust that the old one wasn't damaged. I reload all of my own handgun rounds so I am always waiting for that "psst" telltale signature of a squib load.
Yup. It's right in the lesson plan. I teach it every time. I might even start using that video.
Why would it damage the barrel? Tap it out with a dowel and you're good to go.
ETA: Here's a guy that didn't figure it out:
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I wouldn't worry if it was just the squib round stuck in the barrel (that I would tap out). I thought there was a second round shot into the squib that was already in the barrel. I imagine that if a second round were to be fired then the barrel would be damaged (as well as the shooter...)
MisterHappy
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The vast majority of squibs I have seen have been like that one - primer only, and concern about what could have happened if the bullet made it far enough for the next round to chamber (note I say IF - in most cases on handgun squibs, the round will be right at the rifling engagement and block the next round). This generally does not ring the barrel - if the barrel is ringed, you can generally see a shiny spot on the inside and feel the bulge on the outside.
And I did say "most". I saw one squib in a 1911 that went half way down the barrel, and it looked like a snake that just swallowed a large meal after the second round went down the tube - no injury, but an $850 repair bill for the shooter (compensated race gun).
Oh man! That is some frightening stuff. Damn he's an idiot. A lucky idiot.
My one and only stuck bullet was a Primer only incident and required a hammer and wooden dowel. It came right out after I stopped being gentle ![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
. This is the reason I always keep a small hammer and dowel rod in my bag and why you may sometimes see me run that rod down the barrel if something "sounded weird".
. This is the reason I always keep a small hammer and dowel rod in my bag and why you may sometimes see me run that rod down the barrel if something "sounded weird".
I managed to load some 38's with no powder. I was using a Lee 1000 progressive at a speedy clip and my powder dispenser was sticking and I didn't catch it. At the range later, half way through a box I had a squib that I thought was a bad primer. Lucky for me, the cylinder would not turn on my Blackhawk because the bullet was stuck between the cylinder and the forcing cone. If the bullet made it through the cone I might have fired it again. Now I pay much better attention.
I pulled all the bullets I loaded that day and was horrified at how many had little to no powder.
I have since changed my powder measure. However, I mostly load on my single stage press now and double check everything.
I pulled all the bullets I loaded that day and was horrified at how many had little to no powder.
I have since changed my powder measure. However, I mostly load on my single stage press now and double check everything.
TZCHRIS
NES Member
This is why I weigh every round, never had an issue. I bought a digital scale and can weigh 1000 rounds in less than 30 minutes. I load for some buddies and the 30 min extra is well worth knowing all my rounds are per my load data. Once in a while I will find a round that varies slightly, it goes in a special bag and I fire them with 'extra care', so far so good.
That guy was lucky, the bullet wasn't far into the barrel, so the next round wouldn't have fired anyways, as the gun was out of battery.
Sometimes, though, you don't get that lucky, particularly with a revolver in play if the bullet manages to clear the cylinder enough to allow it to rotate.....
-Mike
Sometimes, though, you don't get that lucky, particularly with a revolver in play if the bullet manages to clear the cylinder enough to allow it to rotate.....
-Mike
99 % of the time, a squib causes the gun to NOT cycle properly. The slide gets pushed part way back, and stops. Sometimes the brass that was fired doesn't even eject.
Any time you fire a semi auto gun, and have the slide stop functioning like that, you should stop and check the barrel. You might not have even heard a mere pop instead of a loud bang, especially if there are others shooting beside you. The stopped slide is usually the BIG tell that there's a possible squib. True, a lubrication issue can also cause the same slide stoppage. If you check the barrel, and there's no obstruction, lube the slide, and continue.
The bigger issue is with a revolver. There's no slide to lockup on you. You have to rely on hearing the quiet pop.
Even with factory ammo, you have to always be on the lookout for a squib.
Any time you fire a semi auto gun, and have the slide stop functioning like that, you should stop and check the barrel. You might not have even heard a mere pop instead of a loud bang, especially if there are others shooting beside you. The stopped slide is usually the BIG tell that there's a possible squib. True, a lubrication issue can also cause the same slide stoppage. If you check the barrel, and there's no obstruction, lube the slide, and continue.
The bigger issue is with a revolver. There's no slide to lockup on you. You have to rely on hearing the quiet pop.
Even with factory ammo, you have to always be on the lookout for a squib.
Had the exact same thing happen to me at MFL with my PM9. I stripped it down and asked the RO if they has something to tap it out with. He took the barrel and cam back with it a short while afterwords and commented that it was a good thing I didn't try to fire another round. I knew better. Anyhow I put another 100 rounds through that day and all was fine. FWIW-The squib came from a box of WWB. I fully trust my PM9. WWB-Not so much.
Thanks for the videos... Good reminders.
As an aside, when using the rod/hammer to clear, do you push it out of the barrel the rest of the way or back the way it came? I would assume you want to push it forward as to not screw up the rifling. Thanks!
As an aside, when using the rod/hammer to clear, do you push it out of the barrel the rest of the way or back the way it came? I would assume you want to push it forward as to not screw up the rifling. Thanks!
shortest distance out is always the best and easiest. Normally, when you encounter a squib, the bullet will be nearer to the chamber end.
If it happens in a revolver, you probably won't get to chose which direction to push...
Make sure you always bring a brass rod in your range bag.
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Finalygotabeltfed
What ever classes the half dozen or so shooters that I've stopped on the range before they blew their guns up have taken. I don't know where they took it or who taught it but they were absolutely clueless about squibs, hangfires and misfires. They all obviously had to have taken one recently because they were all young and new shooters so someone is dropping the ball somewhere and getting paid handsomely to do so. I've knocked out no less than six bullets in the past few years right on Barnstable range over the years.
I'm sure not all instructors are teaching it or not emphasizing it enough and its forgotten in ten minutes by the students.
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Finalygotabeltfed
My first and only ringed barrel came from a box of WWB from Wally World in my M11/9 subgun ten or so years ago. Its kind of hard to let off the trigger at 1800 rpm, and it wasn't a squib but a light loaded round and all of the subsequent bullets cleared the barrel but it ringed it good about 3/4ths up the barrel. I still shot that barrel for several weeks before getting a new one for $29.00.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
How the hell do you weigh anything that fast?
Are you weighing the completed cartridge, including powder, primer, case, and bullet, or are you weighing the *powder* that fast?
If you're weighing the completed cartridge, I suspect you're wasting your time, there's enough variation in bullet and case weight a double or short charge can hide pretty easily.
MisterHappy
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There is a LOT of info....and misfire/hangfire/squibs are generally theoretical....though as Jon Green said, "If you're lucky you'll have ONE misfire in every class!"
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Three rules, equal height equal light, press the trigger....all the unfamilliar nomenclature. It's a lot for an inexperienced, new shooter to absorb! Like driving a car, one needs to learn, through experience, how to divide one's attention to all that needs to be monitored. An experineced shooter has, from what I've seen a, "WTF?" subroutine running in the background - we notice the odd report, the strange event that doesn't register with the new shooter. Because we've seen enough shots go right, to know intuitively that something is wrong.
When I'm on the Trap line at a "real" shoot one thing that I pay no attention to is how many shots I've fired - the scorer tells me when to move - that way more of my feeble brain cells can be focused on the task at hand (Shootin' for the Lewis!
). At the Club, I'm more aware of the local environment, as we often have new shooters. Attention has to be differently focused.Back to the new shooters....keep an eye on them. In time, they'll be the one helping the next crop of beginners.
TZCHRIS
NES Member
I weigh the completed round, every one of them. You can't double chagre a .223, I am loading 24.3 gr and (don't quote me) capacity is about 30gr. I do realize their is a couple gr variance in brass types but the bullets are pretty much perfect. If my rounds are within +/-2.0 gr I go with it (this +/-2.0 is due to the brass not the powder!) I have found a couple at +4 gr and they go in my 'special' box. If for any reason the powder fails to drop that would be a 24gr difference. This procedure ensures I will never get a round with primer only and no powder. Not saying I will never have a squib but I feel better about my ammo. Very easy to crank out 1K rounds of .223 ammo in an afternoon and when I go shooting with my buddies I don't know who may want to shoot my gun or need ammo. Not sure why you think this is a waste of time but you are intitled to your opinion.
Huh? As long as you didn't fire another round behind it, there is no damage. It is your money to waste on a new barrel if you want, but there is a reason that Brownells sells squib rods (and why I keep one in my range bag).
