Third Massachusetts Judge Rules Suitability Unconstitutional

Garys said:
I worked with a guy who shaved his head bald in order to not have to take the annual hair drug test. Joke was on him, they took it from his armpit. He asked what would happen if he had saved that too. The lady just looked at him, she was not amused.

Unsurprisingly he failed the drug test and went into the department mandated rehab protocol. Which he flunked out of and lost his job and pension. Genius.
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That is funny. I've kept a crew cut for 30 years. I swim so much I have no armpit hair. Pre-covid I was swimming 4 miles a day, 5 days a week. Body hair gets dry and brittle.
Granted, I've been sober over 40 years so nothing to find unless I got a random test call right after a surgery or injury. Hasn't happened yet. Probably won't unless I have to get a higher level clearance.
 
PappyM3 said:
Is this actually breaking news, or just one of the many YouTubers who make it seem like there is breaking SCOTUS news, but it’s just re-hashed from a month or two ago?
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Nothing breaking. The court has vacated and remanded a bunch of cases for reconsideration in light of Rahimi, but that's not really news.
 
FYI, here is how it worked as of 2012 when I retired. Drug tests were done annually, 30 days on either side of your birthday. When I had it done it was usually just a day or two before my birthday. That included my last drug test that was the day after my birthday and my last working day before I retired. Yep, no common sense there.

Testing was done at and by the Boston Police Department. Actually, our policy was a direct copy of theirs. I won't go into the details, but the point is that everyone knew the policy and had plenty of fair warning.

Despite that, people consistently failed. We only knew who failed because they got a mandatory 45 day suspension and mandatory in patient rehab. After they came out of that they were literally on double secret probation with random drug tests. If they failed that, it was see you later and good luck in your future endeavors.

We had one guy who quit because he failed a drug test and didn't want to go through the process.



fishgutzy said:
That is funny. I've kept a crew cut for 30 years. I swim so much I have no armpit hair. Pre-covid I was swimming 4 miles a day, 5 days a week. Body hair gets dry and brittle.
Granted, I've been sober over 40 years so nothing to find unless I got a random test call right after a surgery or injury. Hasn't happened yet. Probably won't unless I have to get a higher level clearance.
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Garys said:
FYI, here is how it worked as of 2012 when I retired. Drug tests were done annually, 30 days on either side of your birthday. When I had it done it was usually just a day or two before my birthday. That included my last drug test that was the day after my birthday and my last working day before I retired. Yep, no common sense there.

Testing was done at and by the Boston Police Department. Actually, our policy was a direct copy of theirs. I won't go into the details, but the point is that everyone knew the policy and had plenty of fair warning.

Despite that, people consistently failed. We only knew who failed because they got a mandatory 45 day suspension and mandatory in patient rehab. After they came out of that they were literally on double secret probation with random drug tests. If they failed that, it was see you later and good luck in your future endeavors.

We had one guy who quit because he failed a drug test and didn't want to go through the process.
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Irony. IIRC, Even voluntary rehab gets a mere mortal banned for life from owning or possessing a firearm under MA law, 5yrs under federal. Rehab is considered a "voluntary mental health related commitment."
 
Garys said:
FYI, here is how it worked as of 2012 when I retired. Drug tests were done annually, 30 days on either side of your birthday. When I had it done it was usually just a day or two before my birthday. That included my last drug test that was the day after my birthday and my last working day before I retired. Yep, no common sense there.

Testing was done at and by the Boston Police Department. Actually, our policy was a direct copy of theirs. I won't go into the details, but the point is that everyone knew the policy and had plenty of fair warning.

Despite that, people consistently failed. We only knew who failed because they got a mandatory 45 day suspension and mandatory in patient rehab. After they came out of that they were literally on double secret probation with random drug tests. If they failed that, it was see you later and good luck in your future endeavors.

We had one guy who quit because he failed a drug test and didn't want to go through the process.
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When we lived in NC, the Guilford county Sheriff was asked, at a press conference, why there were not more black deputy sheriffs. Sheriff gave a blunt, honest answer. He said 90+% of black applicants failed the drug test.
 
fishgutzy said:
Irony. IIRC, Even voluntary rehab gets a mere mortal banned for life from owning or possessing a firearm under MA law, 5yrs under federal. Rehab is considered a "voluntary mental health related commitment."
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My memory is that the language in MA is pretty clear that voluntary doesn't count. I think we even reviewed this recently.
 
fishgutzy said:
Irony. IIRC, Even voluntary rehab gets a mere mortal banned for life from owning or possessing a firearm under MA law, 5yrs under federal. Rehab is considered a "voluntary mental health related commitment."
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Nope. There is no record of that. No judge means no record. At least that has been my understanding until now.

Now if a state has a question on the app (like RI does) that asks if you were ever “treated” that’s different.
 
Garys said:
I worked with a guy who shaved his head bald in order to not have to take the annual hair drug test. Joke was on him, they took it from his armpit. He asked what would happen if he had saved that too. The lady just looked at him, she was not amused.

Unsurprisingly he failed the drug test and went into the department mandated rehab protocol. Which he flunked out of and lost his job and pension. Genius.
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Was his use impacting his work?
 
We weren't supposed to know who failed and who didn't. The two cases I know of were because the guys told me about it. One was black, one was white, both used Marijuana.

fishgutzy said:
When we lived in NC, the Guilford county Sheriff was asked, at a press conference, why there were not more black deputy sheriffs. Sheriff gave a blunt, honest answer. He said 90+% of black applicants failed the drug test.
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If you can be tested and lose your job in MA (or any state where it is legal) because of marijuana use, then you should be tested and lose your job over alcohol use as well.

The hypocrisy of it all.:(
 
Private entities can set any standard that they want, including prohibiting legal substances. If someone doesn't like it, they can go find another job.

Coda said:
If you can be tested and lose your job in MA (or any state where it is legal) because of marijuana use, then you should be tested and lose your job over alcohol use as well.

The hypocrisy of it all.:(
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Garys said:
Private entities can set any standard that they want, including prohibiting legal substances. If someone doesn't like it, they can go find another job.
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Yup. I once worked for a company in MA that would not hire smokers. They tell you that up front. Not a protected group. Firefighters same way I think in MA.
 
Coda said:
If you can be tested and lose your job in MA (or any state where it is legal) because of marijuana use, then you should be tested and lose your job over alcohol use as well.

The hypocrisy of it all.:(
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People have been losing their jobs over alcohol use (on the job) since alcohol was discovered. There's no hypocrisy involved.
 
Coda said:
If you can be tested and lose your job in MA (or any state where it is legal) because of marijuana use, then you should be tested and lose your job over alcohol use as well.

The hypocrisy of it all.:(
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It is also not a legal substance federally, and any first line federal supplier has to do mandatory pre employment drug screening, and may, under terms of a supply agreement, be required to do additional testing on a random basis.
 
Uzi2 said:
People have been losing their jobs over alcohol use (on the job) since alcohol was discovered. There's no hypocrisy involved.
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We are talking about testing here, sure show up drunk and loose your job. What a concept.

Until you start TESTING and sending them to rehab or fire them for alcohol use there is most certainly a hypocrisy involved.
 
Police Officers and Fire Fighters can not smoke on or off duty because they get a presumption that any respiratory or cardiac conditions are job related. The trade off for that was that anyone hired after 1988 can't use tobacco products in any form. Additionally fire fighters get a presumption that any cancer they get is job related.

It was tested in court after a police officer was found to be smoking off duty and was fired. The SJC upheld the termination as it was a condition of being hired and he knew it.

Lots of places still test and will fire employees who fail the drug test.

GL2020 said:
Yup. I once worked for a company in MA that would not hire smokers. They tell you that up front. Not a protected group. Firefighters same way I think in MA.
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