Time for some changes at Ames

[Garys]

You were there? Where and when did it take place?

Also, do you know if they took minutes of the meeting?

I was there with about 100 others. I'd imagine that there were minutes of the meeting, but I don't know when we'll see them. They stopped emailing them and are posting them on the club web site.

 

[MassHack]

Club Emails saying an Audit of this year taxes was approved by the BOD, is like saying they will let the Fox count the chickens. The members can't be so dumb as to buy this? An audit is for ALL the books for 7 "SEVEN" years as per IRS standards. The Treasurer is a lousy accountant as per his confession, is he a lousy attorney too? Not knowing this might point towards this and raise question to his payment for "legal" services. Members need to stop trusting those that led them down this road. Wake up Garys before you have no club!

 

[MassHack]

I was there with about 100 others. I'd imagine that there were minutes of the meeting, but I don't know when we'll see them. They stopped emailing them and are posting them on the club web site.

Check the web site What directors were replaced by the new? What directors had a chance to be opposed? Who apponted the new directors to run against who? Are you NOT getting this? Who if any resigned the post that was "elected". Are the members "mushrooms"? Kept in the dark and feed Bullsh!t.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The IRS "7 years" is the lookback period for tax audits not involving suspected fraud. It is very common for businesses to have audits performed on an annual basis.

And, the standards of relevance for audits are GAAP as established by the FASB, not the IRS statute of limitations.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The IRS "7 years" is the lookback period for tax audits not involving suspected fraud. It is very common for businesses to have audits performed on an annual basis.

And, the standards of relevance for audits are GAAP as established by the FASB, not the IRS statute of limitations.

This is key! If they suspect fraud the IRS can look back to the beginning of time!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This is key! If they suspect fraud the IRS can look back to the beginning of time!

Also, if the IRS is getting ready to do a routine (non-fraud audit) and is near the statue limitations, it frequently offers the taxpayer the option of getting a summary judgement of taxes owed from the IRS or agreeing to "voluntarily" extend the statutory deadline.

 

[Billy]

Bottom line is the members have asked for a complete audit to know where the money went. The members deserve to know where THEIR money has gone. BOD should be ashamed they way they are acting and insulting members. The treasurer is a "lawyer" and in my oppinion is skating on thin ice as far as ethics. A full and proper audit is in need to clear the mess this BOD has created. There is no question money has been embezzeled, the question is how much and how long has it gone on for. Members that have asked for treasurer reports have been stone walled and forced out of the club. What do they have o hide?

 

[Billy]

The IRS "7 years" is the lookback period for tax audits not involving suspected fraud. It is very common for businesses to have audits performed on an annual basis.

And, the standards of relevance for audits are GAAP as established by the FASB, not the IRS statute of limitations.

Then what is the look back period for suspect fraud? You are speaking in a language not familiar to members involved. I appreciate your knowledge, could you please explain in lay man terms? Members need all the help they can get to get these crooks removed and the Club restored.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Billy, see Post # 186!

IRS can look back to the day the club started it's existence if they suspect tax fraud.

Of course (if any of the accusations are true) this could also lead to personal audits of those officers in charge going back to the time they took office too, not just the club. Karma (especially in the hands of the IRS) can be a real bitch!

Another interesting aside is that apparently the IRS pays a 10% "finders fee" (taxable of course ) to anyone who rats out a tax fraudster to them. Of course that person would have to have tangible evidence of said fraud before the IRS would act on the info. This was told to me by a friend some years ago when he was in the IRS Criminal Investigations Division (his specialty was going after mobsters).

As a kid I had a neighbor, the Husband was in the jewelry business and the Wife never worked. Years after he died, the IRS bugged the Wife and accused the deceased of tax fraud. They went back a long way and she had to pay lots and lots of back taxes, fines and penalties. I don't know the details but remember her complaining to me about it.

 

[Garys]

Billy, see Post # 186!

IRS can look back to the day the club started it's existence if they suspect fraud.

I think that we might be confusing terms here. First, I'll start off by saying I'm trying to clarify terms, I am not making an accusation of fraud by anyone.

OK, I think that there would be a difference if the IRS suspected tax fraud against the IRS as opposed to officers committing fraud against the club and it's members.

A lot of people who aren't members of the club (or even a former member as you are) seem to be speculating wildly about what's going on. Next Monday's meeting should be interesting as I expect more questions to be asked.

If the membership wants to resolve all of these issues, then they need to keep showing up at meetings. If attendance goes back to the same old members in the same numbers as is the norm, there will be no meaningful pressure on anyone to get to the bottom of the allegations.

Speculating on NES is NOT going to resolve this.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What Gary says is true. IRS only cares about cheating the tax man. They don't care if someone rips off an org. [I just went back and added the word "TAX" to the line Gary quoted to make that a bit clearer.]

The DA for whatever county an org is located in is the only one who would care/investigate accusations of someone ripping off an org (not the state AG). But again, one must have tangible proof for anyone to even care. Mere speculation won't cut it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Then what is the look back period for suspect fraud? You are speaking in a language not familiar to members involved. I appreciate your knowledge, could you please explain in lay man terms? Members need all the help they can get to get these crooks removed and the Club restored.

The IRS lookback period for suspected fraud is infinite.

GAAP - Generally Accepted Accounting Principles; FASB - Financial Accounting Standards Board

The DA for whatever county an org is located in is the only one who would care/investigate accusations of someone ripping off an org (not the state AG). But again, one must have tangible proof for anyone to even care. Mere speculation won't cut it.

True, however, when one of the parties if an attorney in a position of fiduciary responsibility, there is also the BBO (Board of Bar Overseers).

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

A lot of people who aren't members of the club (or even a former member as you are) seem to be speculating wildly about what's going on.

...Because anyone who saw this stuff first hand either left the club or was unjustly kicked from the club. I would think that these ex-members know much more about the corruption than the current members who keep their heads down and continue to pay dues into Ira's bank account.

 

[bill o]

Speculating on NES is NOT going to resolve this.

What it has resolved is my decision not to join Ames, even though it's close to my new home and has all the facilities I want.

 

[Garys]

True, however, when one of the parties if an attorney in a position of fiduciary responsibility, there is also the BBO (Board of Bar Overseers).

They're too busy looking into the allegations of Liz Warren practicing law without a license. That joke gives me pause about the objectivity and honesty of the BBO.

The DA for whatever county an org is located in is the only one who would care/investigate accusations of someone ripping off an org (not the state AG). But again, one must have tangible proof for anyone to even care. Mere speculation won't cut it.

Which is why there have been calls for an outside audit. Which is not what I think the BOD is proposing.
An outside audit should bring any improprieties to light.

As I said, the members who want to see this resolved need to keep coming to meetings or nothing will change.

 

[Garys]

...Because anyone who saw this stuff first hand either left the club or was unjustly kicked from the club. I would think that these ex-members know much more about the corruption than the current members who keep their heads down and continue to pay dues into Ira's bank account.

Maybe, but as I recall your conflict was over use of a .50 caliber rifle at the range, not the financial operations of the club. So, you're saying that we are paying dues into Ira's bank account is rank speculation at best.

Former members aren't going to be the ones to resolve this, current members are. Jim has raised some important issues and I expect will continue to do so.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

They're too busy looking into the allegations of Liz Warren practicing law without a license

The BBO is chartered with disciplining attorneys. Without a bar card, Lizzie isn't one, and may not fall under the scope of the BBO.

 

[Garys]

The BBO is chartered with disciplining attorneys. Without a bar card, Lizzie isn't one, and may not fall under the scope of the BBO.

The comments, since retracted, by the general counsel for the BBO indicated that her occasional practice wasn't an issue would seem to indicate otherwise.

I'd imagine that someone would take interest in a non lawyer practicing law. Even if that person has a JD and is a professor at Harvard Law School.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Maybe, but as I recall your conflict was over use of a .50 caliber rifle at the range, not the financial operations of the club. So, you're saying that we are paying dues into Ira's bank account is rank speculation at best.

Former members aren't going to be the ones to resolve this, current members are. Jim has raised some important issues and I expect will continue to do so.

No, it was because we asked "Do you allow 50BMG". Ira said "yes". My father and I both signed up for membership, and Ira then changed his mind and said we couldn't and one of his goons took down our license plate before we left so that he may report us to the police if we got on his bad side. I've heard probably 10 different stories from members (current and past) that have painted a similar depiction of Ira and Tim's personality and ethical behavior. I'm also an accountant and I've previously worked as an auditor and my bullshit detector is going crazy.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The comments, since retracted, by the general counsel for the BBO indicated that her occasional practice wasn't an issue would seem to indicate otherwise.

I'd imagine that someone would take interest in a non lawyer practicing law. Even if that person has a JD and is a professor at Harvard Law School.

From personal experience and that of others reported to me, the BBO is as useless as tits on a bull.

I had a contract with an atty in Brockton to provide IT support. When he refused to pay me the $4K balance he owed me I called the BBO to find out the process for filing an ethics complaint (I had a signed contract and some signed invoices as evidence). They said it was a "contractual issue" and didn't violate their ethics rules. Expensive lesson learned!

As a Constable, I'm linked in with many other Constables and process servers from MA and across the country. I've been told that the BBO will only act when you get a court judgment for non-payment of fees and the lawyer still refuses to pay you (contempt of court), but not before that. I've had to threaten some lawyer clients with reporting them to the BBO but it turns out that it really is a hollow threat. Luckily for me, they've all paid up after getting the threatening letter which is all I cared about.

 

[Garys]

No, it was because we asked "Do you allow 50BMG". Ira said "yes". My father and I both signed up for membership, and Ira then changed his mind and said we couldn't and one of his goons took down our license plate before we left so that he may report us to the police if we got on his bad side. I've heard probably 10 different stories from members (current and past) that have painted a similar depiction of Ira and Tim's personality and ethical behavior. I'm also an accountant and I've previously worked as an auditor and my bullshit detector is going crazy.

So your basic dispute was over the use of a 50 caliber rifle and misrepresentations by Ira about their permissibility. I remember the thread and I agreed that it was wrong of him. I don't like that whole license plate business and there was a member at the last meeting who was going to bring it up, but we never got to it. I hope he'll be back this month.

I think that the financial issue is the one that will get the attention of most members. I know I was very surprised at what came out the last time. A friend of mine who is a newer member didn't think that there was much to this until I told him about the last meeting. Now he's interested in the financial goings on. I think more people are like him than not. As long as things seem to be going along OK, they don't take much interest. Now things look different and people are starting to want answers.

 

[bostonbilly]

So your basic dispute was over the use of a 50 caliber rifle and misrepresentations by Ira about their permissibility. I remember the thread and I agreed that it was wrong of him. I don't like that whole license plate business and there was a member at the last meeting who was going to bring it up, but we never got to it. I hope he'll be back this month.

I think that the financial issue is the one that will get the attention of most members. I know I was very surprised at what came out the last time. A friend of mine who is a newer member didn't think that there was much to this until I told him about the last meeting. Now he's interested in the financial goings on. I think more people are like him than not. As long as things seem to be going along OK, they don't take much interest. Now things look different and people are starting to want answers.

I hate to admit it but I have been a member since I moved to Town in 1994. I have only been to a handful of meetings but always felt on the outside never a welcome member. I am one of the guys that "as long as things seem to be going along OK" an I can get to my club I never paid much attention. This is a huge eye opener, again I will try to be at the meeting

 

[Garys]

I am one of the guys that "as long as things seem to be going along OK" an I can get to my club I never paid much attention. This is a huge eye opener, again I will try to be at the meeting

It's hard, especially if you have small kids, a job, and other responsibilities. As I said, it's not on peoples' radar until something seems amiss.

 

[boilermaker]

As an outside observer I would be asking who is conducting the audit? Is a group of members forming an audit committe to review the past 3 years? Is membership hiring an accountant? Or is the BOD hiring an accountant? Just for ease, I would take a look at the last three years first, with this level of concern I would suspect that if were discrepancies they would be in those 3 years. If there are problems there, then go back farther. Also, al this talk of the IRS audit I think is a bit dangerous. I don't think looking for an IRS audit or Mass DOR audit will help your club in any way. If they do find problems the club is going to be on the hook for even more money. Nothing ever good comes from an IRS or DOR audit. The membership has to figure this out and get the train back on the tracks. Good luck to all you folks

 

[Garys]

These are all good questions and I expect that they will (at least some of them) come up at the meeting.

I think we also got a bit off track in this thread because of some confusion over the term audit. Unless the IRS or DOR take interest in the doings of the club, my thought is that this is an internal matter for the club.

As an outside observer I would be asking who is conducting the audit? Is a group of members forming an audit committe to review the past 3 years? Is membership hiring an accountant? Or is the BOD hiring an accountant? Just for ease, I would take a look at the last three years first, with this level of concern I would suspect that if were discrepancies they would be in those 3 years. If there are problems there, then go back farther. Also, al this talk of the IRS audit I think is a bit dangerous. I don't think looking for an IRS audit or Mass DOR audit will help your club in any way. If they do find problems the club is going to be on the hook for even more money. Nothing ever good comes from an IRS or DOR audit. The membership has to figure this out and get the train back on the tracks. Good luck to all you folks

 

[boilermaker]

I think we also got a bit off track in this thread because of some confusion over the term audit. Unless the IRS or DOR take interest in the doings of the club, my thought is that this is an internal matter for the club.

Maybe I miss understood earlier but the membership definitely do not want to involve any IRS or DOR audit team. Having gone through a Mass DOR Meals tax audit for our club, I can say they are there to find something and WILL find something, and thus the club is worse off.

Again good luck.

 

[Billy]

I don't think the BOD will ever go along with an internal audit of the books going back 3 years. The members would need to form an audit comittee outside of the BOD. You know as well as I do Ira has too much to loose and will not let this happen. I wish you luck in wrestling the books from Ira and Tim. The amount of money missing and misrepresented is nothing short of criminal. Remember there are people that were active in that club before they were run out, that still care about Ames and it does come up in conversation at other clubs. You should look at recent history ask those people what they know, it will only help your endeavor. That being said, I wish you and the rest of the membership the best of luck.

 

[Billy]

On a side note the people suggesting DA involvement seem to have knowledge on this type of situation. I feel they are spot on if you intend to ever see that money back. Why has the BOD taken insurance to protect themselves in recent months? Hmmm I wonder...

 

[warwickben]

Could guys get little more then 50% of the members to show up to one meeting and take control?
When my dad was in Texas they had problems like this at his club and they just had 55% of the club show up to one meeting and forced for a vote for new leaders.... They didn't have the vote then but the forced them to hold a vote ...

 

[Garys]

My understanding is an internal audit of the books, not a DOR or IRS audit.

Maybe I miss understood earlier but the membership definitely do not want to involve any IRS or DOR audit team. Having gone through a Mass DOR Meals tax audit for our club, I can say they are there to find something and WILL find something, and thus the club is worse off.

Again good luck.