Today's "Listening Tour" in Fall River

[pastera]

Gun legislation 'Listening Tour' makes stop in Fall River - Fall River, MA - The Herald News

In attendance:
Rep Naughton
Rep Silvia
Rep Markey
Bristol DA Sutter
FR Police Chief Rancine
Also in attendance was a state Senator but I can't remember his name and failed to bring a notebook thinking that this would be a Q&A session with mostly anti questions picked. (feel free to neg for that oversight)


It is now clear that we will see "sweeping" gun legislation in September. This is a direct quote from Rep Naughton.

What follows is not a quote but just my feel of the 'mood' of the conversation for the new legislation:
The ban on standard capacity magazines and modern sporting rifles stays in place - no retraction of grandfathering but no betterment either
Discretion will stay in place - I don't think we will see it expanded to FIDs but it is a possibility
A waiver of all medical records access will added to licensing
No more private transfers
Licensing will be streamlined to reduce police involvement and time line, possibly taken over by the sheriff's office.

The general tenor of conversation was that further restrictions on lawful gun owners would do little to stem gun violence. However a lot of time was spent on trafficking from New Hampshire. A Massachusetts task force that will operate in NH to identify and apprehend traffickers was pushed several times. I was adamant in pressing that interstate trafficking was a federal issue and reiterated this for every "new" way the situation was addressed. I was finally informed by Rep Markey that the feds simply don't have the funding to address Mass trafficking and it is a very low federal priority if funding were available.

My attempts to place the mental heath issue into perspective by comparing the average number of deaths in mass killings (~35/yr) with the number of infants who die when left in cars (~33/yr) fell short. However, both Rep Markey and DA Sutter took this up stating that the limited funds were better spent on the large number of urban shootings. I never thought either would be an ally in this fight. Both would like to see the licensing process streamlined in order to free up resources to target the people the police already know are the issue at hand.

Now that Rep Naughton recognizes my face and calls me by name, I will still be attending the hearings but believe my impact will be negligible (if not already). We need more people to step up and speak out. I was one of three people from the 'general public' there today, an embarrassing showing of support. Here is a overview of my take on the 'public'

Sportsman 1: Middle aged gentleman in his fifties
Well spoken and concerned with his rights even though he doesn't own any firearms. He would be a pretty good ally if we got him to the range to shoot and he was hooked.

Sportsman 2: Middle aged gentleman in his fifties
Started out well but fell into a tirade of how he knows many people with LTCs who shouldn't be allowed to have guns and how if we start issuing more licenses there will be blood in the streets like the wild west .

Myself: Passionate but poor public speaker, stutters, looks the part of weird gun guy.
Did my best to limit the damage from Sportsman 2. Tried to speak out enough to control the conversation without being rude or interrupting.

 

[mav]

I live in the area and would have attended, but the scheduled time makes it pretty difficult when I have to work at my job in Boston. If they actually wanted the general public's opinion, they would have scheduled it in the evening, after work or on a weekend when most could attend if they wanted.

 

[pastera]

I will be perfectly honest, this is my third time going to these events and there is a change. We are educating the legislators about how the current mess of laws doesn't work and how the proposed laws won't. The way they are speaking is changing, for the good, but they are a long way off from where we believe they should be and the onus is now on us to show them a united front.

 

[cekim]

I will be perfectly honest, this is my third time going to these events and there is a change. We are educating the legislators about how the current mess of laws doesn't work and how the proposed laws won't. The way they are speaking is changing, for the good, but they are a long way off from where we believe they should be and the onus is now on us to show them a united front.

Thank you and agreed...

This tour has been a constant process of trying to get the word out and catch up to hastily scheduled and rescheduled meetings.

On th bright side, our side of things is learning how to deal with this process which I hope will continue and extend well beyond just "the gun issue".

I thin it is important to plant the seed in gun owner's mind that as much as there has been an all out assault at every level, imagine what would happen right now if there were another high profile horrific shooting?

Nothing about the reality of violence and gun ownership would change, but we need to continue pushing even if we manage to "hold the line" this fall which frankly, I think is still an uphill battle. We have to educate and flush the anti-gun brainwashing forgo the public psyche.

 

[Grimlock]

Since I lived for most of my life in Mass, and now live in NH, the sight of how things will probably go, look dim. I'll make another Comm2A donation when I can.

 

[neum69]

Thanks for representing us!

 

[Rider]

I live in the area and would have attended, but the scheduled time makes it pretty difficult when I have to work at my job in Boston. If they actually wanted the general public's opinion, they would have scheduled it in the evening, after work or on a weekend when most could attend if they wanted.

The reality of it is that there isn't a good time. Whether you do it on a weekday, or a weekend, or an evening, people will have to go out of their way to make it. Even if they held an open session 24 hours a day for 7 days, many people would just not have the time to go. At some point, you have to make the choice over whether it's worth taking the time off to attend the hearings and have your say. And if you really, really can't get to any of the hearings, hopefully you are calling and writing letters to your reps and every person on the Committee.

Nothing personal, this is just the reality of the situation.

 

[atilla]

It is now clear that we will see "sweeping" gun legislation in September. This is a direct quote from Rep Naughton.

unpossible. naughton is not only rated A+ by GOAL, but also GOAL-endorsed.

 

[pastera]

Thank you and agreed...

This tour has been a constant process of trying to get the word out and catch up to hastily scheduled and rescheduled meetings.

On th bright side, our side of things is learning how to deal with this process which I hope will continue and extend well beyond just "the gun issue".

I thin it is important to plant the seed in gun owner's mind that as much as there has been an all out assault at every level, imagine what would happen right now if there were another high profile horrific shooting?

Nothing about the reality of violence and gun ownership would change, but we need to continue pushing even if we manage to "hold the line" this fall which frankly, I think is still an uphill battle. We have to educate and flush the anti-gun brainwashing forgo the public psyche.

This is the truth that seems to be getting through - that criminals don't follow the current law and heavier handed laws won't be any better. The commitee gets this, however what is not getting across is that the current laws are draconian and overly burdensome on lawful owners. They truely believe that they work!

I also believe the very thinly hidden threat by Khar Arms at the last hearing taken in light of the descisions of other companies to leave Ct and Co has them thinking about S&W and the jobs they produce. This (S&W) was specifically addressed by either Rep Silvia or Rep Naughton yesterday.

 

[atilla]

i would love to see kahr and S&W threaten to pull out of the state.

i honestly don't see what purpose this shit serves. these politicians make me absolutely ****ing sick standing on the caskets of those dead children in CT to push their statist anti-gun political agendas.

there is a special place in hell reserved for these types of people.

 

[Jay1391]

Here's a link to an article in today's Taunton Gazette about it...

Gun legislation 'Listening Tour' makes stop in Fall River - Taunton, MA - The Taunton Daily Gazette

 

[atilla]

GOAL needs to pull his rating. all he needs to say is "look, the largest 'gun rights' organization in MA not only supports me, but endorses me." that's worth a lot politically and then the sheep see it and go "oh, then this can't be so bad, even the gun owners want it."

GOAL: CHANGE. THE. GOD. DAMN. RATING.

i can say with %100 conviction that i am %100 done with GOAL, will never donate again, will not renew my membership, and i will tell everyone i come into contact with about how politically impotent they are and how they are content with taking your money and endorsing a gun-grabbing politician.

donate to comm2a.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

GOAL needs to pull his rating. all he needs to say is "look, the largest 'gun rights' organization in MA not only supports me, but endorses me." that's worth a lot politically and then the sheep see it and go "oh, then this can't be so bad, even the gun owners want it."

GOAL: CHANGE. THE. GOD. DAMN. RATING.

i can say with %100 conviction that i am %100 done with GOAL, will never donate again, will not renew my membership, and i will tell everyone i come into contact with about how politically impotent they are and how they are content with taking your money and endorsing a gun-grabbing politician.

donate to comm2a.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Comm2A is such a better organization. GOAL really ****ed up over the past year.

 

[pastera]

Here's a link to an article in today's Taunton Gazette about it...

Gun legislation 'Listening Tour' makes stop in Fall River - Taunton, MA - The Taunton Daily Gazette

damn, they got my mug shot up - Now everyone can clearly see what I mean by "weird gun guy" look

The basis of the conversation is changing - we need to stand firm and educate in order to have things move in the correct direction.

To all of the naysayers - Will you be satisfied with your self fulfilling prophesies through lack of action allow Mass to make New York gun laws look like Vermont's?

- - - Updated - - -

I couldn't have said it better myself. Comm2A is such a better organization. GOAL really ****ed up over the past year.

I was specifically asked if I knew Jim by DA Sutters people - GOAL should have been there, however I do understand they have limited resources.

 

[atilla]

GOAL should have been there, however I do understand they have limited resources.

i would like to know what GOAL thinks is more important than shutting down the moonbats now rather than letting the anti's bullshit gain momentum. this is a serious inquiry and i would love to hear why GOAL has been all but silent on these issues while endorsing the moonbats who are out to turn us all into criminals.

 

[shiprec13]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Comm2A is such a better organization. GOAL really ****ed up over the past year.

While I agree that GOAL should be more responsible WRT ratings, ESPECIALLY in a critical time like now, Comm2A is not out there pushing legislation. What Comm2A does, is great but we also need someone fighting before laws are enacted and that is where GOAL comes in. While the results of their efforts haven't been what we all would like to see we need them out there pushing for us. I feel its in our best interest to have as many people on our side as possible. Speaking of which where is the NRA? Talk about an organization who should be here standing up for us. Sure they're joining lawsuits in NY and CT but again the effort needs to come before the laws are enacted. That and stick around to fight it out after the BS gets rammed through against the will of the people.

"i would like to know what GOAL thinks is more important than shutting down the moonbats now rather than letting the anti's bullshit gain momentum. this is a serious inquiry and i would love to hear why GOAL has been all but silent on these issues while endorsing the moonbats who are out to turn us all into criminals."

I agree on all counts. GOAL needs to be step it up.

 

[JasonM]

I'm going to the one in Middleton, just waiting for the date/time to be posted.

 

[Jason Flare]

unpossible. naughton is not only rated A+ by GOAL, but also GOAL-endorsed.

I think they grade on a curve.

 

[PaulD]

Pastera, +1 and thanks for going to this. This seems to be a separate event from the committee hearings, is that correct? Is there a schedule of when the next one will be and where?

If what you predict comes true, that's a lot better than the aggregate of the bills would lead us to believe, but still far from ideal. I'd really like to not see an end to private transfers, especially since in this state those are already recorded and background checked (have to have an LTC/FID).

Cekim, you have a very good point regarding another big event. There have been a couple of fairly minor events since New Town and I've cringed every single time. In fact I cringe every time some statist news agency tries to keep gun control in the current news cycle.

 

[pastera]

Pastera, +1 and thanks for going to this. This seems to be a separate event from the committee hearings, is that correct? Is there a schedule of when the next one will be and where?

If what you predict comes true, that's a lot better than the aggregate of the bills would lead us to believe, but still far from ideal. I'd really like to not see an end to private transfers, especially since in this state those are already recorded and background checked (have to have an LTC/FID).

Cekim, you have a very good point regarding another big event. There have been a couple of fairly minor events since New Town and I've cringed every single time. In fact I cringe every time some statist news agency tries to keep gun control in the current news cycle.

These seem to be separate events from the hearings and this one was by far the most helpful I have attended, it was like a personal meeting with the top guys. The best part was the ability to dialog and defend against bad statistics (worst of which came from one of the 'gun' guys)



The only positive in my opinion is streamlining the process - everything else is a strong negative. Think about it, signing over your medical records to the police chief to get your license.
What if he sees that you are not in shape and finds you unworthy because you can't effectively retreat and diffuse a situation because you are old and fat?
What if you needed someone to talk to because of a bad event in your life?
The only thing that this would do is cause people who need help to not get the help they need. My suggestion was to allow the same civil immunity given to doctors who report suspected child abuse under mandatory reporting laws and to create a set of standards that define where the bar of prohibited person is.

No more private transfers means all off list guns go away. Your Massachusetts Glock won't be worth shit.

 

[PaulD]

These seem to be separate events from the hearings and this one was by far the most helpful I have attended, it was like a personal meeting with the top guys. The best part was the ability to dialog and defend against bad statistics (worst of which came from one of the 'gun' guys)

If you hear anything about more of these, please post it here. Thanks.

The only positive in my opinion is streamlining the process - everything else is a strong negative. Think about it, signing over your medical records to the police chief to get your license.
What if he sees that you are not in shape and finds you unworthy because you can't effectively retreat and diffuse a situation because you are old and fat?
What if you needed someone to talk to because of a bad event in your life?
The only thing that this would do is cause people who need help to not get the help they need. My suggestion was to allow the same civil immunity given to doctors who report suspected child abuse under mandatory reporting laws and to create a set of standards that define where the bar of prohibited person is.

No more private transfers means all off list guns go away. Your Massachusetts Glock won't be worth shit.

I absolutely agree and should restate my previous post. It's still BS but a smaller quantity of BS. If the medical records were made a requirement, it'd be very interesting to watch the court fight.

 

[thorin]

I went to the one in North Adams last week. Despite only being announced that morning at 9 am, there were maybe 50 people there including at least one GOAL board member. I had to leave work early to go, but it was no problem since my boss wanted to go too. Only one anti spoke and she was quite elderly, and the panel called her out on her misinformation right off the bat. (She was saying ridiculous things like 'people are just ordering guns off the internet'). I didn't get a chance to speak but pretty much every one who spoke hit on points I would have made. It was a pretty wide variety of pro 2A people, although the crowd skewed older (probably because more retired folks could attend since it was a workday). Every one who said their piece did reasonably well, and I didn't hear any fudd-isms. A couple of women spoke about their right to self defense, and an NRA instructor mentioned that he has had a significant uptick in women taking the NRA class. The two news articles I read the next day were surprisingly free of liberal bias and sympathetic to our side, even acknowledging that further restricting the law abiding will have no impact on criminal activity.

I agree with your assessment regarding the "comprehensive" bill, it is probably being written behind the scenes right now. I get the sense that Rep. Naughton regrets having gotten involved with this mess, and although he seemed to play his cards close to the vest, it is clear that our message has gotten through to him. However, with his run for Lt. Gov pending, we will have to wait for the 'comprehensive' bill to come out to see whether he sells us down the river. I'm trying not to be too fatalistic about it.

If I had had a chance to speak, I wanted to point out that MA gun laws have a negative impact on the economy of the state. We are not required to live in Massachusetts, and a lot of tax-paying, job-having, law-abiding people are saying the heck with this place and leaving for VT and NH where their rights are respected.

I'm surprised you guys down there weren't able to pull in more than 3 people, the meeting was announced well in advance. Thanks to those who did attend.

 

[pastera]

I went to the one in North Adams last week. Despite only being announced that morning at 9 am, there were maybe 50 people there including at least one GOAL board member. I had to leave work early to go, but it was no problem since my boss wanted to go too. Only one anti spoke and she was quite elderly, and the panel called her out on her misinformation right off the bat. (She was saying ridiculous things like 'people are just ordering guns off the internet'). I didn't get a chance to speak but pretty much every one who spoke hit on points I would have made. It was a pretty wide variety of pro 2A people, although the crowd skewed older (probably because more retired folks could attend since it was a workday). Every one who said their piece did reasonably well, and I didn't hear any fudd-isms. A couple of women spoke about their right to self defense, and an NRA instructor mentioned that he has had a significant uptick in women taking the NRA class. The two news articles I read the next day were surprisingly free of liberal bias and sympathetic to our side, even acknowledging that further restricting the law abiding will have no impact on criminal activity.

I agree with your assessment regarding the "comprehensive" bill, it is probably being written behind the scenes right now. I get the sense that Rep. Naughton regrets having gotten involved with this mess, and although he seemed to play his cards close to the vest, it is clear that our message has gotten through to him. However, with his run for Lt. Gov pending, we will have to wait for the 'comprehensive' bill to come out to see whether he sells us down the river. I'm trying not to be too fatalistic about it.

If I had had a chance to speak, I wanted to point out that MA gun laws have a negative impact on the economy of the state. We are not required to live in Massachusetts, and a lot of tax-paying, job-having, law-abiding people are saying the heck with this place and leaving for VT and NH where their rights are respected.

I'm surprised you guys down there weren't able to pull in more than 3 people, the meeting was announced well in advance. Thanks to those who did attend.

I think a lot of people have given up the cause and that is why low attendance.

It does seem as though Rep Naughton has some regrets on signing up for these hearings. He was very outspoken about making certain no one could complain that they were not allowed to have a voice and that is what scares me most - who is his intended audience for the that statement. The glimmer of hope is a story he shared about his time in the middle east where he stated they knew who the problems were and could see the local activity uptick within a few days of the troublemakers being release from detention.

 

[atilla]

i don't know about these other ones, but the leominster one was a bullshit set-up. it was a moonbat fundraiser with a $100 "donation" announced last-minute... or when they figured out community members were going to attend. no way in hell was i going to toss money at these domestic enemies of the constitution.

 

[PaulD]

i don't know about these other ones, but the leominster one was a bullshit set-up. it was a moonbat fundraiser with a $100 "donation" announced last-minute... or when they figured out community members were going to attend. no way in hell was i going to toss money at these domestic enemies of the constitution.

Was that one billed as part of this "listening tour" or was it a different type of event?

 

[atilla]

it was.

 

[Jason Flare]

I think a lot of people have given up the cause and that is why low attendance.

It does seem as though Rep Naughton has some regrets on signing up for these hearings. He was very outspoken about making certain no one could complain that they were not allowed to have a voice and that is what scares me most - who is his intended audience for the that statement. The glimmer of hope is a story he shared about his time in the middle east where he stated they knew who the problems were and could see the local activity uptick within a few days of the troublemakers being release from detention.

I watched the CT hearings, live, until very late in the night and CT lawmakers listened and later voted contrary to the will of the the pro 2A people.

What matters here is votes. The gun laws in MA will be changed to garner more votes from the majority. Until politicians lose elections rather than win elections for trashing God-given rights they will continue to trash the Constitution.

I will testify at one of the meetings because what I have to say needs to be said, but to do so I will have to ignore that the politicians are focused on re-election and not the Constitution.

 

[Hoover]

I live in the area and would have attended, but the scheduled time makes it pretty difficult when I have to work at my job in Boston. If they actually wanted the general public's opinion, they would have scheduled it in the evening, after work or on a weekend when most could attend if they wanted.

The scheduling is by design, it's not a quirk.

 

[pastera]

We may see a H3264 with a poison pill for us be sent forward. This would allow nothing to be done with both sides pointing the finger at the other 'unreasonable' guys.

If the ball gets too hot, I can see the panel punting with an unpassable bill and the status quo ante rules. However, if there is another school incident, we will get crushed.

 

[thorin]

We may see a H3264 with a poison pill for us be sent forward. This would allow nothing to be done with both sides pointing the finger at the other 'unreasonable' guys.

If the ball gets too hot, I can see the panel punting with an unpassable bill and the status quo ante rules. However, if there is another school incident, we will get crushed.

I was thinking this as well; the main danger being if this 'comprehensive' bill can make it through committee for a floor vote.