Tokarev vs 1911

[browncoat]

At this point I'm leaning towards the time when a new shipment of Yugo's arrive in the States. Right now only Romanians seem to be available.

Nothing wrong with the Romanians, but I get a sense the Yugos may be in slightly better condition.

And I'd like to see an Auto-Ordnance 1911 first hand. I like the old-school look, and modern 1911 clones that depart dramatically from the WWII "look" do not appeal to me.

I think Four Seasons had them a year or so ago for $500.

Yugoslavia had a very good arms refurbishment/maintenance program. This may bother collectors since they made sure to reblue/maintain some older guns in ways that a collector may not appreciate. For shooters though, it works out quite nicely.

Romania on the other hand seems to have used holes in the ground for arsenals and for refurbishment program, who knows!

The above points come only from my experience with SKS, no idea about Tokarevs

 

[Rockrivr1]

For what? With a 9mm conversion a cheap Tok could be a carry piece, if you have the Yugo-style safety.

If you are remotely considering a 9mm then I'd not convert or pay extra for a TOK. Go out and look for a Star B. 1911 design, at least externally, in 9mm. Find my Star B shoots better them my TOKs.

 

[mac1911]

if its added safety for import on the surplus pistols i have found just removing the POS all together. use the half cock safety as designed if you need the safety.

- - - Updated - - -

If you are remotely considering a 9mm then I'd not convert or pay extra for a TOK. Go out and look for a Star B. 1911 design, at least externally, in 9mm. Find my Star B shoots better them my TOKs.

great guns and increasing in price rather quickly

 

[CaseHardened]

if its added safety for import on the surplus pistols i have found just removing the POS all together. use the half cock safety as designed if you need the safety.

Good Advice.

Generally, if you do "anything" to a C&R, like adding a Resin Stock to an SKS, it's not C&R anymore.

However, when an Importer adds a Safety, it is still a C&R.

Gun Laws (groan)

 

[CaseHardened]

If you are remotely considering a 9mm then I'd not convert or pay extra for a TOK. Go out and look for a Star B. 1911 design, at least externally, in 9mm. Find my Star B shoots better them my TOKs.

Colt on Left - Star on Right

I like the Star, and at $250 the price is right. But they're not C&R! Damn it.

And I refuse to pay a premium for any firearm just because somehow it made its way into Massachusetts.

Now if someone in Mass has one for the going rate, yeah, I'm in.

 

[CaseHardened]

Whoa, found out some Star 1911 are C&R, but the User Reviews are not favorable.

I'm taking the Star 1911 off my short list.

 

[tuna]

I dunno about Stars. I heard Gunkid rave about them too many times on too many forums to give them an unbiased look, I'd always look for a way to mount it on a wheelbarrow.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Whoa, found out some Star 1911 are C&R, but the User Reviews are not favorable.

I'm taking the Star 1911 off my short list.

Actually this is incorrect. The Star B is C&R eligible. Some online sellers are not accepting C&Rs for 03 firearms going to Mass. They are very much though a C&R firearm. I also can't say much about the reviews other then to say the one I bought, with my C&R, functions very well.

 

[warwickben]

Actually this is incorrect. The Star B is C&R eligible. Some online sellers are not accepting C&Rs for 03 firearms going to Mass. They are very much though a C&R firearm. I also can't say much about the reviews other then to say the one I bought, with my C&R, functions very well.

There a pretty common stand in for the 1911 for movies.
I was watching tested on YouTube (related to myth busters) Adam was saying 9mm blanks cycle better so it's less of a hassle on the set.

 

[browncoat]

Actually this is incorrect. The Star B is C&R eligible. Some online sellers are not accepting C&Rs for 03 firearms going to Mass. They are very much though a C&R firearm. I also can't say much about the reviews other then to say the one I bought, with my C&R, functions very well.

The Model A&B are C&R, but the Model Super A & B are not all C&R, so shops aren't selling them as C&R. Those are the ones that are mostly available right now @250. There are presumably a bunch of Star Super B that are C&R, but I haven't found any for sale.

 

[browncoat]

Good Advice.

Generally, if you do "anything" to a C&R, like adding a Resin Stock to an SKS, it's not C&R anymore.

However, when an Importer adds a Safety, it is still a C&R.

Gun Laws (groan)

It's not law. It's ATF interpretation. In fact, the original ATF interpretation of modification only applied to those C&R guns that are not over 50 years old. I think more recently they may have misread the original interpretation to expand it to all C&R guns, but if you know English and can parse legalese, it is clear that the rule on modification originally only applied to C&R guns that obtained their collectible/relic value from something other than age - for example, many or most 59-66 SKS.

 

[Bt74]

If you are remotely considering a 9mm then I'd not convert or pay extra for a TOK. Go out and look for a Star B. 1911 design, at least externally, in 9mm. Find my Star B shoots better them my TOKs.

Or a M88A Mini Tok.

 

[goodzilla]

There are presumably a bunch of Star Super B that are C&R, but I haven't found any for sale.

I took a quick look and that's what I found out too. Dating the Stars seems to be a bit of a hassle. They seem to be dated only by proof marks. It seems that many dealers don't want to bother to locate/interpret all the marks on the pistol and don't bother to go through the hassle to declare the Star Super B a C&R.

 

[browncoat]

I took a quick look and that's what I found out too. Dating the Stars seems to be a bit of a hassle. They seem to be dated only by proof marks. It seems that many dealers don't want to bother to locate/interpret all the marks on the pistol and don't bother to go through the hassle to declare the Star Super B a C&R.

Yeah, it's a bummer. $250 for a 9mm sort of 1911? I'd have one.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I do agree it is a fair comparison. It's all about going into DEBT.

Some people do drive clunkers they can buy with one paycheck.

Others pay and pay.

I could never afford a decent old 911. But a new Auto-Ordnance, maybe. At triple the cost of the Tok.

And Tokarev admitted he borrowed features from the 1911, so in a sense, the Tok is Browning's bastard child.

If you really want a decent 1911, you could always not buy anything right now and save up for one.

 

[CaseHardened]

Or a M88A Mini Tok.

Nice looking and inexpensive ($199), but unlikely to be on the Mass Roster.

 

[CaseHardened]

Well, comrades, I spoke to a man who has owned several Toks, and he recommended the Romanian. Which is good, since right now all other C&R versions have dried up from the usual dealers.

So I pulled the Trigger, paid for Hand Select and Matching Numbers, and all things considered it will be at my door in a week or so for under $250.

 

[DW357]

Nice. My Romanian Tokarev has ran great except last year when the firing pin fell out. Though it was an easy fix.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/270034-Tokarev-fell-apart-at-the-range-today?

 

[jpm]

Good Advice.

Generally, if you do "anything" to a C&R, like adding a Resin Stock to an SKS, it's not C&R anymore.

However, when an Importer adds a Safety, it is still a C&R.

Gun Laws (groan)

That's not true. If you change a C&R so that its not in its original configuration anymore, then it loses its C&R status. But just changing the wood stock to a resin stock won't do it if they are both the same shape/configuration. Adding a scope or a butt pad wouldn't, but putting an archangel type stock on a mosin would.

 

[hedgehound]

.

 

[goodzilla]

Well, comrades, I spoke to a man who has owned several Toks, and he recommended the Romanian. Which is good, since right now all other C&R versions have dried up from the usual dealers.

So I pulled the Trigger, paid for Hand Select and Matching Numbers, and all things considered it will be at my door in a week or so for under $250.

Congrats, enjoy!

 

[CaseHardened]

Yeah, it's a bummer. $250 for a 9mm sort of 1911? I'd have one.

Unless the quality is low and the parts availability is nil. I just don't have much info on any Spanish arms. Other than at one time they made Merwin Hulbert copies, which were not that good. I hear.

I talked to Four Seasons today, and they told me Auto-Ordnance 1911's can be had, new, for $500 (give or take).

That means, to me, one may eventually surface for $400 used. Especially if the Gun-Salesman-In-Chief disappears, and the Benghazi Hag is indicted.

 

[browncoat]

Unless the quality is low and the parts availability is nil. I just don't have much info on any Spanish arms. Other than at one time they made Merwin Hulbert copies, which were not that good. I hear.

I talked to Four Seasons today, and they told me Auto-Ordnance 1911's can be had, new, for $500 (give or take).

That means, to me, one may eventually surface for $400 used. Especially if the Gun-Salesman-In-Chief disappears, and the Benghazi Hag is indicted.

The star b and super b from most accounts were pretty well built. Parts probably are a pain to get, but that doesn't bother me.

 

[CaseHardened]

The star b and super b from most accounts were pretty well built. Parts probably are a pain to get, but that doesn't bother me.

Sellers just don't want to date individual pistols from a large lot just to identify a C&R or two, to accommodate us Mass Collectors.

I really think a few of of latest Bulgarian Makarov's that recently arrived for $300 must be C&R; but as they can sell them hassle-free to most States, we are screwed.

And I can't think of a single Massachusetts Governor or AG in my considerable lifetime that would ever take the side of the Gun Owner.

Well, at least I don't live in NJ where they will jail you for a Flintlock.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/02/video-retired-teacher-faces-10-years-for-flintlock-possession/

 

[Rockrivr1]

Sellers just don't want to date individual pistols from a large lot just to identify a C&R or two, to accommodate us Mass Collectors.

I really think a few of of latest Bulgarian Makarov's that recently arrived for $300 must be C&R; but as they can sell them hassle-free to most States, we are screwed.

And I can't think of a single Massachusetts Governor or AG in my considerable lifetime that would ever take the side of the Gun Owner.

Well, at least I don't live in NJ where they will jail you for a Flintlock.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/02/video-retired-teacher-faces-10-years-for-flintlock-possession/

I just saw 4 of these for sale at Gartman Arms in Wrentham today. I think they were selling them for around $400.

As a side note, I didn't realize Marc was working there. Haven't seen him in a while.

 

[PATRON]

The Star are very nice pistols in 9mm, as well as 9 largo. The 1911 speaks for itself,as the Tok. goes,they are also great guns but if your going to use it for home defense you have to understand that round will piss threw almost anything,like the wall of your house into the next room.

 

[CaseHardened]

Obama Signs NDAA Bill To Allow Sale
of Surplus 1911 Pistols to Public

By Dean Weingarten. November 26th, 2015

​

Arizona - On Wednesday, 25 November, 2015, President Barack Hussein Obama signed the National Defense Authorization act.He had vetoed the first version of the bill to reach his desk on 22 October, 2015, about a month ago.In the latest version, S. 1356, there is a section, 1087, which re-authorizes the Civilian Marksmanship Program to sell surplus 1911 and 1911A1 pistols and their parts and accessories to the public. The bill is available (as a PDF file.)

http://jpfo.org/alerts2015/alert20151130.htm

What's up with the two clearly different sized cartridges ?

 

[browncoat]

That's not true. If you change a C&R so that its not in its original configuration anymore, then it loses its C&R status. But just changing the wood stock to a resin stock won't do it if they are both the same shape/configuration. Adding a scope or a butt pad wouldn't, but putting an archangel type stock on a mosin would.

That configuration criteria (at least originally) only applied to those arms that were less than 50 years old but had their C&R status from their military or historical significance. It appears that since that standard was written, the ATF may have been confused by its own statements though.

A gun that is over 50 years old should be C&R regardless of any modifications, that's the plain letter of the text. Whether the ATF still thinks this, I have no idea.

 

[je25ff]

Is this a serious question?

I was going to say that. The 1911, not only for the round but the operational stability.

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

I have three Toks and love them. If the ammo cost/availability is a concern, buy a Norinco 9mm on gunbroker. Norinco also has a model that comes with both 9mm and 7.62x25 barrels and mags (I have one). They are not expensive and mine are reliable as any 1911 I have ever shot. I prefer the Polish over all the C&R eligible Tok's, then Romanian, then the M57.... Just my opinion.
There is a shop that will accept the transfer of a Norinco in MA. PM me if you want details.