Travelling to PA (New Jersey non res LTC question also)

MXD

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I have a MA LTC A - ALP and a NH non res. I researched on the web and found that my NH non res is good in PA so since I am driving down, I wanted to bring my firearm. I understand the laws regarding locking it up for transport in the states that I don't have a permit in. My question is, if I got pulled over in NY or NJ and they discovered the gun properly stored for transport, if I showed them my MA and NH permits, is that all I need to prove that I meet the requirement of transporting legal from and to a state that I am permitted in?

I do travel quite a bit to NJ for business and I always drive. Can the state you are transporting to and from be the same state?

Any advice for obtaining a non res from NJ? I heard they are difficult.
 
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Jose

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First of all you need to define what kind of firearm is it that you are talking about.

You do not need a license to possess a handgun or a long gun in PA. You need a license to carry a handgun there.

So if you are traveling with a long gun to PA, showing a PA LTC means nothing.
 
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With Christie as the governor there, we could expect some relaxation in their laws in the next few years, but I very seriously doubt it: the legislature mostly hates him, and they make the laws.

Christie could do some good things, though, with orders to the State Police that might alter the landscape a little. We should encourage him to do so.
 
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One thing that you should always do if you're transporting firearms through a state where you do not have a permit and especially if the permitting laws are not favorable is to keep a printed copy of 926A with you at all times, in every state you travel through. As in: on your person. It's not hard: you print it out once and keep it until the statute changes.

http://law.justia.com/us/codes/title18/18usc926a.html
 
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The question of whether the state you're transporting to and from should have been addressed with a uniform nationwide system for reciprocity of CCW permits, but so far it has not been.

I was surprised to find out, for example, that Florida cannot recognize Vermont residents as CCW permit holders because -- Vermont doesn't issue the permits! Amazing. As a result of that Florida cannot, of course, decide whether those permits that aren't issued really exist, and they're quite correct in that determination, so believe it or not your VT "right" is not recognized in FLA but can you believe it if you are from so many other states and you're a resident, they are. Just not if you're from Vermont.

Absolutely mind boggling. It's total Weirdo that Florida will honor Washington State permits but because of the way Vermont....doesn't do it....they cannot honor Vermont resident rights. This is the kind of crazy thing that happens when nobody has any kind of nationwide standards.

What the states need to do is make their laws regarding this more .... whatever you want to call it. Compartmented, interchangeable, uniform, it doesn't matter -- so that CCW permitting requirements comport from one place to another. In so many cases across the country, politicians have found it more attractive to play each state off against the next. And in some cases the legislatures themselves do not have the authority to enact reciprocity agreements, but they should. It's something every State Legislature should be doing.

I think it's nuts that Massachusetts doesn't have reciprocity with Connecticut. If anything, the requirements for certification here are higher, but apparently we haven't had enough effort expended yet to make it happen. We should.

When traveling in the United States there should be something approaching a Uniform Firearm Permitting Standard so that Utah doesn't have to try and serve as the example forever, but I would start with Utah's model and work from there. New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut...Maryland...South Carolina....Rhode Island.....and California need to get on board and cut the crap. It's all the Northeastern states plus California and their holdouts in Nevada. Want to change that? It's the work that has to be done in the legislature. This nutbag rule that these states don't recognize anyone and nobody recognizes them either has to end, eventually. It's needlessly expensive, needlessly burdensome, it's actually dangerous to the person who responsibly owns the firearm, and it's a gotcha game of the worst kind.

Americans are mobile people and this baloney about differing rules is an impediment to their way of life. There should be universal rules across state lines just like there are for automobile licenses. I can drive state to state in this country and make little loops and circles and crash into trees with my car, but dang it when I move from one jurisdiction to another with a gun in the vehicle I'm either a criminal or a regular old citizen or just someone unremarkable. That should change, and it should be as unremarkable as possible to my way of thinking.
 
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strangenh

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I do travel quite a bit to NJ for business and I always drive. Can the state you are transporting to and from be the same state?
Sounds like you're trying to play games with FOPA -- I would think NJ is a destination in the case you describe since you are traveling TO NJ "for business," not coincidentally through it on your way somewhere else. FOPA doesn't let you stop in a place where you're not legal to possess the firearm other than incidental to travel through.
 

Racenet

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With Christie as the governor there, we could expect some relaxation in their laws in the next few years, but I very seriously doubt it: the legislature mostly hates him, and they make the laws.

Christie could do some good things, though, with orders to the State Police that might alter the landscape a little. We should encourage him to do so.
Don't bet on it. They can't even trust you to pump your own gas. Do you really think they are going to issue licenses to carry? Not in this lifetime, your kids lifetime or your grandkids lifetime. It is NEVER going to happen, ever.
 

Horrible

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Sorry to reserect an old thread. I am driving down to NC (where my Utah CCW is honored) and would like to bring a handgun or two. Hearing some of the stories about NJ Police basically ignoring FOPA is making me nervous about traveling with firearms.

What is my best bet if I will be traveling through NJ? Or is it just better to leave the guns at home?

Thanks
 

Rob Boudrie

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You might as well attempt unicorn hunting instead of trying to get a NJ non-resident permit. They don't happen, ever.
I believe this is incorrect, however, the person I know who managed it was very well connected within the LE community - and even then he told me it took quite a bit of doing.
 

M1911

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What is my best bet if I will be traveling through NJ? Or is it just better to leave the guns at home?
Lock the unloaded guns in your trunk. Put the ammunition in your trunk in a separate container. Print out a copy of the NJ State Police FOPA policy and keep it with you.

But most importantly, drive cautiously through NY and NJ so you don't get stopped! Don't become the target of law enforcement attention.
 

drgrant

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Sorry to reserect an old thread. I am driving down to NC (where my Utah CCW is honored) and would like to bring a handgun or two. Hearing some of the stories about NJ Police basically ignoring FOPA is making me nervous about traveling with firearms.

What is my best bet if I will be traveling through NJ? Or is it just better to leave the guns at home?

Thanks
Pack your stuff in accordance with FOPA. Stick to the main roads and fuel up before you cross over into NY or NJ. Check to see all lights, directionals, etc, are functioning. Obey traffic laws. Make sure there is no visible "gun stuff" in the passenger compartment of your vehicle, or for that matter, even a swiss army knife. (NJ has byzantine weapon laws, never mind guns). Do not stop anywhere until you've passed through.

-Mike
 

Racenet

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Pack your stuff in accordance with FOPA. Stick to the main roads and fuel up before you cross over into NY or NJ. Check to see all lights, directionals, etc, are functioning. Obey traffic laws. Make sure there is no visible "gun stuff" in the passenger compartment of your vehicle, or for that matter, even a swiss army knife. (NJ has byzantine weapon laws, never mind guns). Do not stop anywhere until you've passed through.

-Mike
LOL

That's gonna be a real bitch at the toll plazas, unless you have ez-pass. :)

Don't sweat it. If you get stopped, just be nice, take the ticktet with a smile and you'll be on your way. The NJSP are a-holes, but they are lazy at it. They aren't gonna strip your car by the side of the road, unless you look like a drug runner.
 
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I have my MA LTC, my NH non-res, and my PA non-res. When my husband and I spent a week in PA in Sept, we purposefully avoided NJ and stuck to NY instead. Except for the brief sojurn into NJ by way of a wrong turn (while I was carrying and sweating, and telling my husband to stop for all yellow lights, go slow, etc until we saw the dotted line on our GPS), I had no problems whatseoever. I did observe FOPA and we didn't stop in NY.
 

Horrible

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Thank you all for the helpful advice. I will certainly be extra careful and make sure that I follow FOPA to the letter as well stick to the main roads (NJ Turnpike, GS Pwky, etc.). Thankfully I do have EZ-Pass.
 
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Horrible

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OK. Another stupid question. Under FOPA, is it lawful to carry HP ammo (which is heavily regulated in NJ)?

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

The law certainly isn't completely clear:

If the sportsman's club member plans to hunt with a rifle and use hollow nose ammunition in a state where this is permitted, he must comply with the provisions of U.S.C.A. 926A and N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f) and (6)(g), which is consistent with the federal law, in transporting the firearm and ammunition. The firearm should be unloaded and neither the firearm nor the ammunition should be readily accessible from the passenger compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the firearm and the ammunition should be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or the console. 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

In addition, the sportsman should have a valid hunting license in his possession from the state in which he plans to hunt and should be familiar with that state's gun laws. N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f)(2) requires a person hunting in this State to have a valid hunting license in his possession while traveling to or from the hunting area. Hunting with hollow nose ammunition is permitted in New Jersey. In the case of a New Jersey resident traveling to another state to hunt, it logically would follow that the hunting license would be from the state where the hunter is going. Although the federal statute does not require possession of a hunting license, it does require that the person transporting the firearm be going to a state where possession of that object is lawful. A valid hunting license from that state effectively supplies the proof.
Do I need to have a hunting license in my destination state? Or is my Utah CWP considered "proof" of legality?
 
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HP ammo is not an issue. It is acceptable for use in ranges and sold everywhere. Simple storage in a vehicle transiting the state will not be a problem.

NJ does not have non-resident permits. FID cards can be issued on a limited basic for non-residents with a presence in the state.

As far as Christie doing anything, don't hold your breath.

 

drgrant

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I definitely agree with Rscalzo on this... anyone who thinks that Christie is going to do anything about gun regs in NJ is fooling themselves. Despite his fiscal conservatism streak, he's about as big of an anti as they come.

-Mike
 

Racenet

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I definitely agree with Rscalzo on this... anyone who thinks that Christie is going to do anything about gun regs in NJ is fooling themselves. Despite his fiscal conservatism streak, he's about as big of an anti as they come.
If anyone thinks anyone will do anything about gun regs in NJ is fooling themselves. It ain't gonna happen, ever. They won't even trust you to pump your own gas for christ sake.
 

drgrant

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If anyone thinks anyone will do anything about gun regs in NJ is fooling themselves. It ain't gonna happen, ever. They won't even trust you to pump your own gas for christ sake.
True enough. The gas thing is probably because some gas pumpers union down there owns the legislature. [rofl]

-Mike
 

terraformer

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True enough. The gas thing is probably because some gas pumpers union down there owns the legislature. [rofl]

-Mike
No, all of the gas pumpers are illegals. It was the gas stations themselves that lobbied for this. Ostensibly to make sure they produce jobs but I am pretty sure it was so they could charge more for the gas. When you make money on margins the more expensive your product is, the more money you can make if the good is inelastic, which auto fuel pretty much is.
 

drgrant

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No, all of the gas pumpers are illegals. It was the gas stations themselves that lobbied for this. Ostensibly to make sure they produce jobs but I am pretty sure it was so they could charge more for the gas. When you make money on margins the more expensive your product is, the more money you can make if the good is inelastic, which auto fuel pretty much is.
Ok, so its a gas station union instead of a gas pumpers union, then. [laugh]

-Mike
 

lupis42

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No, all of the gas pumpers are illegals. It was the gas stations themselves that lobbied for this. Ostensibly to make sure they produce jobs but I am pretty sure it was so they could charge more for the gas. When you make money on margins the more expensive your product is, the more money you can make if the good is inelastic, which auto fuel pretty much is.
Entertainingly, every time I go down there, the gas is still cheaper than self serve up here in taxeschusetts.
 
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