UPDATE: Police RAID house of gun-toting St. Louis lawyer couple and confiscate the AR-15

[pastera]

I never mentioned property damage at all. If I did, please quote me.

I’m not sure what you mean by “blame the homeowners”, blame them for what?

They WERE going to the mayor’s house. Do you think that’s not true?

Please do go on and on, but quote what I actually wrote, not what you imagine I meant.

Do you believe Mrs. McClosky behaved rationally?

I think Mr. McClosky overreacted a little, but not criminally. (Probably, I don’t know MO law well. She acted unglued, even if she was/is in the right.

She acted in a manner consistent with an untrained, inexperienced person who is in deep fear for their personal safety - Just like the average person on the street. I feel this meets the standard of judging based on a reasonable person acting prudently.

That the mob was trying to reach the mayor's home is immaterial - they had no right to be where they were. If their purpose was only to reach the mayor's home, they should have kept to the street and not interacted with the public past chanting their positions. As soon as they trespassed, damaged private property, and threatened anyone they were the primary aggressors and had no standing from a defensive posture. The homeowner had every right to display a defensive posture equal to the aggressive ability of the mob (deadly force equal to the deadly force of overwhelming numbers)

That said, I don't condone or promote either of the McClosky's actions but taking the situation in its entirety I believe they reacted within the bounds that the average person would and therefore have zero guilt.

 

[babygorilla]

I'm willing to bet half, 1/2, .5, or 50% of the people posting in this thread probably think its normal to walk around a playground carrying AR-15's because it's "your right" lmao, you give actual gun owners and right activist such a bad look.

Somebody give the noob a copy of the Bill of Rights and the constitution please.

 

[babygorilla]

You have your head stuck so far up your ass you don't even know. Sorry that I have to be the one to tell you.

People defended their home with weapons. No violence occurred. Police confiscate ONLY the weapons used. No charges made. No other guns taken. They even indicate where the handgun is that wasn't seized. I'm not sure what more you want. Sorry candy, this is how the real world works. This isn't 1300 where you get to defend your hut with a stick and keep your stick after.

Do you hunt widdle gway wabbits?

 

[headednorth]

Strange that a pro Gun Control, brand new member immediately goes Green? A Troll with someone backing them? Well at least they got $21 out of Mom's or Maura's budget.

They're being paid to stay home remember?

 

[babygorilla]

Yes because this website is where people go/should go to learn gun laws/constitutional rights. You have absolutely no idea what the f*** you're talking about.

Reread that line to yourself and self apply. Thanks.

 

[babygorilla]

Yet, they did continue to the mayor’s house, didn’t they?

Nope, that was the main group that went the RIGHT WAY, down a public road.

 

[pastera]

If no rounds are fired, but charges are filed, the firearm is needed as evidence and for analysis to prove it is functional and fully operational.

Concur - I was responding to the linked article and should have been more clear.

I also believe the charges are BS given the intent of the mob to inflict, at a minimum, serious fear of injury to the public.

 

[babygorilla]

Gun Seizure - Second Call Defense

When counseling our members on how to prepare for the aftermath of self defense, we tell them to expect certain things:

www.secondcalldefense.org

I literally found that after googling why do police seize guns after self defense

Read it a few times maybe you'll learn something

This is AFTER you fire. You maybe should read more, and type less.

 

[babygorilla]

Again, I'm not sure what part of la la land you guys live in where you think any police department can prepare for a 300-500 person riot.....

Which is why I PERSONALLY (IN MY OPINION) believe ANYONE ABLE to possess a firearm should ABSOLUTELY follow through with the LEGAL procedures to do so. I don't care how much taxes I pay (and I promise you it's more than most of you guys) I'm sure as f***ing shit not trusting Officer Blart downtown to protect my ass in case of a riot. But I also am not going to blame Officer Blart for taking my gun away as I just brandished it in front of 500+ people.

I'm in no way shape or form agreeing with the mob. I totally see that as the root of the problem. I don't even know what would be the end result if the same situation happened to me, no one in this thread does.

You guys are shooting yourselves in your own foot and you don't even realize it.

The police acted under their normal procedure. They probably don't know what happened. We only know what happened from the news and hearing it from one side.

However, one fact is that a lot of people including some in this thread are fabricating that the government is intervening or political agendas are being pursued....nope...nope....and nope.

I'm not a lawyer, cop, or politician. I'm neutral in all aspects. No violence occurred, no charges made, normal procedure followed by police and than blown out of proportion by followers of the news.

You are not neutral, you are a STATIST.

 

[blindndead]

Does anybody know where the NRA is on this topic?

 

[blindndead]

I wonder if the warrant was for "all guns" and a disarmament order, or just for the AR15 as it is evidence in upcoming persecution.

This is what I would like to know?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Does anybody know where the NRA is on this topic?

L. O. L.

 

[Grendizer138]

You are kind of making my point for me. None of this nit picking would have mattered if they guns were held at low ready or something like that.

It matters now because the wife was continually sweeping the crowd with her finger on the trigger.

I agree that low-ready is normally optimal, both legally and tactically; however, make no mistake, an ideologue prosecutor would pursue this no matter what they did.

Fortunately, they were smart enough to immediately establish a narrative that justified their actions.

 

[babygorilla]

To confuse this even more. There is HOA/Condo property that is in a grey area. This is especially so for one who isn't familiar with these types of laws, rules and bylaws.

There is the "common area" and "limited use common area". Assigned parking, driveways, walkways and Lawns are prime examples of this. There was one photo, i can't find, that shows a few of the protesters on the lawn. So where were they standing? This is going to take lawyers to figure out and i don't think anyone is going to be completely happy with the result.

Video of the scene does not appear to show any armed protestors (although some may have been; reports on this also differ) nor does it appear to show any protestors stepping off the private street and onto the McCloskeys’ lawn.

View attachment 372479

I see two a**h***s on the McClosky's property in this one photo.

 

[Uzi2]

It sounds like you've never actually taken a carbine class at a reputable training site. They all are consistent. Safety comes off as the gun comes on target.

I'm not in any way advocating that you wait until you have been shot at.

That's because those courses are all given on private ranges with lots of "non potential target people" around AND liability issues if someone gets shot.
Get the fvck over your "Range Officer" mode.....they had potential targets right in front of them. When a split second counts, the last fvcking thing I'm going to be doing is dicking with the safety on a gun.

 

[xtry51]

Does anybody know where the NRA is on this topic?

This is hilarious. Right where they always are, collecting donations and sitting quietly in the corner. I keep saying the NRA needs to become a lot more like the ACLU to be taken seriously. They should be chomping at the bit to defend this couple pro bono.

 

[Dennis in MA]

She acted in a manner consistent with an untrained, inexperienced person who is in deep fear for their personal safety - Just like the average person on the street. I feel this meets the standard of judging based on a reasonable person acting prudently.

That the mob was trying to reach the mayor's home is immaterial - they had no right to be where they were. If their purpose was only to reach the mayor's home, they should have kept to the street and not interacted with the public past chanting their positions. As soon as they trespassed, damaged private property, and threatened anyone they were the primary aggressors and had no standing from a defensive posture. The homeowner had every right to display a defensive posture equal to the aggressive ability of the mob (deadly force equal to the deadly force of overwhelming numbers)

That said, I don't condone or promote either of the McClosky's actions but taking the situation in its entirety I believe they reacted within the bounds that the average person would and therefore have zero guilt.

Some of the most well thought out points on this thread. It's a complete cluster-bleep start to finish. I hope it works out well for them but I hope that someone sends that woman through some damned training, too.

 

[blindndead]

This is hilarious. Right where they always are, collecting donations and sitting quietly in the corner. I keep saying the NRA needs to become a lot more like the ACLU to be taken seriously. They should be chomping at the bit to defend this couple pro bono.

Just checking. As I suspected, Its shameful.

 

[Bonesinium]

I see two a**h***s on the McClosky's property in this one photo.

Yep. And what we don’t see? Them just walking past the property enroute to the Mayors house, which is the fake news narrative.

 

[mav]

It sounds like you've never actually taken a carbine class at a reputable training site. They all are consistent. Safety comes off as the gun comes on target.

I'm not in any way advocating that you wait until you have been shot at.

I'll leave this right here.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5quj6ZhJM

 

[SgtHal75]

My point is that the security with guns at low ready did not justify a police response. If the homeowners had done the same thing there wouldn't be a problem.

If they stayed in thier humongous stone house and used it for cover to observe the mob’s actions they most likely would of marched right by them on their way to the mayors house and none of us would have a clue of who the McCloskeys are.

 

[SgtHal75]

Your point is dumb.

Unless there is some legal standard you can point to (I saw what I did there) that mentions low ready. Bad trigger or muzzle discipline isn't against the law.

It will get u kicked off the Range though

 

[SgtHal75]

This is also a textbook example of how NOT to defend your property. Have your new gun owner friends watch this.
1) wife sweeps crowd
2) wife keeps finger on trigger.
3) husband has gun horizontal sweeping neighbors houses
4) husband sweeps wife
5) couple argues with mob - shut up and keep to yourself.
6) remain calm - be better than the people you are confronting.

Bingo

 

[SgtHal75]

Stick around , from what Iv'e seen so far it may not be even close before this thread is locked.

Both of u completely misread his post, oh boy...

 

[Dcdr]

Confiscating the guns was definitely political. Like someone said, no shots were fired. Years ago my dad was in his yard in MA walking into his house when the neighbor’s pitbull ran up to him and clamped down on his arm. He pulled out his pistol and shot the dog in the leg. Nothing illegal, no charges, and the cops came and took all his guns during the course of the “investigation”. He later spoke with an attorney who said he did NOT need to let the cops take his guns. His guns were returned eventually (and he was never deemed unsuitable). The point I’m trying to make is unless MO law is much different than MA, there’s prob nothing in the law that justifies their guns being taken

 

[SgtHal75]

Sounds like the perfect recipe to be the first one to die.
First , please stop spreading the falsehood that these people were just strolling down the sidewalk.
Look at the overhead of the property and compare it to the video.
They were well off the sidewalk and right up to the stairs of the house that the couple was standing on.
Supposedly some of them visibly armed and making threats of bodily harm.

Here's my reaction in the same scenario .
Safety off , finger on the trigger and if I see one muzzle swinging in my direction someone is getting a third nostril .
This isn't a day at the range and the old liberal theory of you have to wait till you've already been shot to fire back can kiss the sweatiest part of my fat ass.
In a situation like that , you hesitate, you die.

It's pretty obvious that people who know better would have handled it differently , but the world is not full of tier one operators .
I'm betting some training is in their future now that it's hit home just what's out there and how fast your world can go south.

U sure about that

 

[Bladerunner]

He really needs to get a single point sling for that AR.

 

[Bt74]

If they stayed in thier humongous stone house and used it for cover to observe the mob’s actions they most likely would of marched right by them on their way to the mayors house and none of us would have a clue of who the McCloskeys are.

Might be, but when a crowd of thugs trespasses onto their lawn, there is no requirement to hide and cower. It's already been established that the mob had forced their way onto private property, no need to "Shelter in Place". I've only had to respond once to a threat at my home, and I did so with a .357 at my side. As soon as the car pulled up, I walked out onto my porch and as the punk got out of the car, I suggested he get the F off my property. Yes, the cops were on their way, contrary to the McCloskey situation, but I certainly was not going to let him approach my door.

 

[SgtHal75]

See post 249. You are a close second.

You obviously are a big fan of "common sense gun control".

Given how undisciplined some of u guys are with your firearms I don’t want u anywhere near my kids when they are at the playground

 

[SgtHal75]

Might be, but when a crowd of thugs trespasses onto their lawn, there is no requirement to hide and cower. It's already been established that the mob had forced their way onto private property, no need to "Shelter in Place". I've only had to respond once to a threat at my home, and I did so with a .357 at my side. As soon as the car pulled up, I walked out onto my porch and as the punk got out of the car, I suggested he get the F off my property. Yes, the cops were on their way, contrary to the McCloskey situation, but I certainly was not going to let him approach my door.

Never said hide and cower. Stop reading posts so defensively