Hello, I was wondering if any military guys/gals wouldn't mind sharing what they carried on deployment to service their rifle. Did you keep oil with you, spare parts, barrels etc? If so could you be kinda specific as to what and why? I'm thinking I'm terms of the m4 platform. Any replies are much appreciated!
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What did you carry?
- Thread starter ktegra
- Start date
Picton
NES Member
Lol. Soldiers don't carry spare parts. The unit armorer has all that; when your weapon breaks, you turn it in. Magically, it returns all fixed a couple days later. Joe has no idea how to do any gunsmithing at all, and the last thing Joe's chain of command wants is Joe unscrewing barrels.
The Army issued us cleaning kits. I never used anything but screw-together barrel rods, a barrel brush, some old-skool swabs, a chamber brush, a toothbrush, and good ol' CLP. I did find a dental pick somewhere, which came in handy at times, but other than field-stripping? Nobody in any of my units ever did anything invasive.
I was a forward observer, then later an airborne infantryman. So I carried M4s when they were first fielded.
That makes total sense, I didn't know if things broke while out on a mission or patrol (I know it wouldn't happen often) and you'd have a backup part for things that tended to not be as sturdy/reliable
Picton
NES Member
Not in my units.
Might have been different in the sandbox, but I seriously doubt it. There were parts that were known to be easily lost, like cotter pins; the solution was to have your NCOs smoke your ass until you stopped losing them in the field. Leaf springs on M60s were also a common problem; we usually wired those down with tripwire to keep them from popping off.
Modern rifles are designed to be taken down and maintained by morons in filthy environments, meaning there are very few items that are easy to lose. It's why the takedown pins on the M16 platform are captive.
As to field stripping was that merely usually to inspect working order, after the rifle getting dirty? Like you were in the muck for an extended period of time and when you had a chance to inspect you'd field strip, clean and reassemble?
Picton
NES Member
No. Weapons maintenance is one of the priorities of work anytime you're going to be halted for an extended period, like in a patrol base or something like that. Cleaning your weapon usually comes third or fourth, depending on your unit's SOP and degree of discipline. After security and establishing your fighting positions and sectors of fire, long before food or sleep.
Oh okay, did you ever have like spare batteries for any of the equipment on your rifle or other things for being ready and effective?
Also I'm not trying to be super nosey or snob like I'm just really curious about how the military trained and what kind of experiences they had taught them to be more effective.
Also I'm not trying to be super nosey or snob like I'm just really curious about how the military trained and what kind of experiences they had taught them to be more effective.
NHKevin
NES Member
What was appropriate in military service has little to do with how you would maintain personally owned firearms.
Picton
NES Member
I was in the most technologically advanced division in the Army at that time, but it was 1998: doodads existed that we could, theoretically, attach to our rifles to improve our aim and to laze and illiuminate targets, but our chain of command was afraid of losing those in the woods. So they stayed in the arms room. We used M4s with carry handles attached; iron sights, always.
We did carry extra batteries for our NODs, and other batteries for the radios. Radio batteries are heavy, bulky, "rechargeable," and a pain in the ass to haul around. We distributed several per unit. In general, "I want to carry a bunch of spare batteries!" is not something you're likely to hear from Joe.
Soldiers in the Big Army are not really taught to be self-reliant. You have a company headquarters element, a battalion HHC, a brigade HHC, and a division support unit, all of whose responsibilities include taking care of or replacing equipment too broken to use. This is why, when people on Survivor or Naked And Afraid say things like, "I was in the Army!" as a credential for their readiness to survive in the wilderness, I laugh to myself. Starting a fire, say, with a bow drill is not something soldiers do. They're more likely to simply pull out a lighter or some MRE matches.
Cap'n Mike
NES Member
If you’re worried about your M4 malfunctioning, a small bottle of oil is a good thing to have. Stoners rifle will run dirty, but it doesn’t like to run with a dirty dry bolt.
If you buy a quality rifle, the chance of something breaking under 10,000 rounds are slim.
Spare batteries or changing them often is a good idea.
If you buy a quality rifle, the chance of something breaking under 10,000 rounds are slim.
Spare batteries or changing them often is a good idea.
dustoff22
NES Member
According to the Geneva Convention, we who flew Dustoff were allowed to only carry a personal weapon versus some Medevac units who were allowed to carry mounted M60's. As such, during my tour, we often had captured weapons loaded along with casualties. Amongst those weapons, at various times, in addition to my preferred CAR-15, I on occasion carried a Thompson SubMachine Gun, a Grease Gun M3?, a 12 gauge pump shot gun but favored my M79 equipped with HE and shotgun rounds. Never was able to find flechette rounds for it. I did have an AK47 but thought better of carrying it with me just in case. For a sidearm, I preferred a 45 which I traded something for. It was brand new in cosmoline......wish I brought it home with me. I would have liked to find a Swedish K but never did.
Thank you guys for all your input, this is all very helpful. I know it may seem silly but I'm trying to get some people to form a group ready in a minute and trying to work on what people should have for 3 day 5 day walks. Who better to learn about these things than the people who served.
Picton
NES Member
Well... not sure I agree.
You're asking people who had the backing of a trillion-dollar defense establishment. That's not you and your group.
They say the "tooth to tail" ratio in the army is like 10-1, meaning every one trigger-puller has ten guys (whose job is NOT pulling triggers) in their support. There are several levels of armorers ready to help fix weapons. There are warehouses full of spare parts, which would be expensive for all of us... but not for Joe. There is a fleet of helicopters, planes, and trucks whose purpose is to haul those spares, and the techs who can install them, to anywhere in the world where they're needed.
You don't have access to any of that.
This is what I was saying earlier: "being in the Army" is no credential for being able to survive on your own for an extended period. YOU need to talk to people who've done that. Your situation won't be anything like an American soldier's situation; your situation will be more like the guys who served the warlords in Somalia, with no government support and no infrastructure. Those weapons were held together with duct tape and baling wire.
It helped that they didn't have M16s, which are known to need a lot of maintenance vs something like the AK, which you can keep running using almost anything. You should be studying those people, not US Army soldiers, and you should be carrying their equipment, not something that needs a lot of maintenance.
Perfect post in response to the idea that the military would be the best example for these ideas. In reality, you want to be looking at the peasants and farmers that the military have fought against, and not a regular professional Army, for ideas on what the OP seems to be wanting to prepare for.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
Carried cameras (Photographers Mate 3rd Class)
sjohnston0311
NES Member
Mk12. Carried the issued cleaning kit plus a bore snake and some extra CLP.
I carried the ubiquitous USGI rifle cleaning kit.
Added in are some patches, a small rag, the brass from a stripper clip to scrape carbon, and a small piece of scratch pad to help bust rust.
In 2005 during Operation Iron Fist, my Bn CO jumped across a ditch, slipped, and buried the muzzle of his M4 in the mud.
He tried to kick the mud loose, but it didn't budge.
I took the rifle from him (he still had his pistol) and used my rifle cleaning kit to clear the bore.
Added in are some patches, a small rag, the brass from a stripper clip to scrape carbon, and a small piece of scratch pad to help bust rust.
In 2005 during Operation Iron Fist, my Bn CO jumped across a ditch, slipped, and buried the muzzle of his M4 in the mud.
He tried to kick the mud loose, but it didn't budge.
I took the rifle from him (he still had his pistol) and used my rifle cleaning kit to clear the bore.
20-Years Later: The M16A2 Of Operation Iraqi Freedom
A closer look at the M16A2 that served as the primary weapon for thousands of soldiers and Marines during Operation Iraqi Freedom
One of these, with a mag pouch on the stock. No cool laser, flashlight, or anything else. The more you add, the more can fail.
Spare parts/barrels? Hell no.
Just the cute little triangle bag of cleaning crap that was stuffed in the stock. Always keep a bottle of your choice of CLP/Oil/whatever topped up.Servicing it was basically just knocking the sand out of it from time to time. Unless some officer came along and wanted to do inspections...then I'd make some quick money stripping down and cleaning rifles for my buddies. Everyone who failed learned quick to pony up next time.
![[thumbsup]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/044.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
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tuna
NES Member
I didn't have much time with the M4, but I always thought it was stupid that they took the M16, cut it down and gave it a shorty stock, and then proceeded to load a bunch of crap on it to make it heavier. I always wondered about all the gear-do crap that was on it - heck, the time I qualified on one, we used iron sights and the red dot, and I don't know what the other doo-dads did on the thing.
One time in Afghanistan, I was at church services and a CW4 was next to me, and his M4 was completely stripped of everything but a rear sight and a sling. I commented that it looked way handier than everyone else's that I see. He replied that he had a helicopter, he's not going to be using "this stupid thing" in a fight.
No - I wasn't Combat Arms, and neither is 90% of the military. All that super hi speed, low drag stuff may be useful for actual combat troops, but its useless for an Air Force ground guy. If you're not trained with your equipment, there's not much point to it.
When the ships of Chinamen start hitting the west coast, the ground crew guys are going to wish they were a little more proficient with a rifle.
