What happens to these folks?

[SKS Ray]

What happens to the people who shelled out $1000 for this 10/22 bump firing stock now that its classified as a machine gun?
I don't know anyone who got one, and I sure as hell would have found better stuff to spend a grand on, but some people must have bought these.
http://www.firefaster.com/

 

[drgrant]

I kinda thought this was going to happen... The ATF, after
all, is the same organization that determined that a shoestring used in a
certain manner would constitute a machinegun. This doesn't surprise me
at all.

I'd bet some jerkoff from the ATF tech branch bought one of these, and tried
it out and said "Hey, this works out really well! That means we have to
make it illegal!" and thus it was so.

What you're witnessing here is the ATF's continued abuse of the
law as it is printed. They take any law on the books and "interpret" it
themselves to make it fit whatever group or device they want to persecute
at a given time. This includes breaking the law itself in order to make
someone else break the law. (As they've been caught doing at several
gunshows, entrapping people and the like.).

I guess as to what happens to the people.... well, if they're smart, they'll
disassemble the gun and reassemble the 10/22 with its original
configuration. Hopefully the company offers a buyback. If the ATF
is really snarky, they might make the dealer send out letters to everyone
that bought the stock asking for it to be returned.


-Mike

 

[Fooped]

This is, in fact, the ONLY reason I did not buy one of these stocks. Something told me that the ATF would "get around" to making this thing NFA material. I remember asking this question before:


"If it looks like a rose, and it smells like a rose, then....."

 

[jhrosier]

What happens to the people who shelled out $1000 for this 10/22 bump firing stock now that its classified as a machine gun?
...

They get to turn it over to the ATF or go to jail.
Of course, the manufacturer will cheerfully refund their money.

You can bet your sweet bippy that they will also be on some ATF "watch list" as likely scofflaws for a couple of decades.

There's a thousand ways to get a machine gun, and 999 of them will get you a ticket to the crowbar hotel.

 

[Jay G]

They get to turn it over to the ATF or go to jail.
Of course, the manufacturer will cheerfully refund their money.

You can bet your sweet bippy that they will also be on some ATF "watch list" as likely scofflaws for a couple of decades.

There's a thousand ways to get a machine gun, and 999 of them will get you a ticket to the crowbar hotel.

And the other 1 will cost you $$$$$$$...

 

[LoginName]

I kinda thought this was going to happen... The ATF, after
all, is the same organization that determined that a shoestring used in a
certain manner would constitute a machinegun. This doesn't surprise me
at all.

(Note: Not mine).

I'd bet some jerkoff from the ATF tech branch bought one of these, and tried
it out and said "Hey, this works out really well! That means we have to
make it illegal!" and thus it was so.

What you're witnessing here is the ATF's continued abuse of the
law as it is printed. They take any law on the books and "interpret" it
themselves to make it fit whatever group or device they want to persecute
at a given time. This includes breaking the law itself in order to make
someone else break the law. (As they've been caught doing at several
gunshows, entrapping people and the like.).

I guess as to what happens to the people.... well, if they're smart, they'll
disassemble the gun and reassemble the 10/22 with its original
configuration. Hopefully the company offers a buyback. If the ATF
is really snarky, they might make the dealer send out letters to everyone
that bought the stock asking for it to be returned.


-Mike

They pulled this stunt before... first it was ok, then it's not ok...

http://spas12.com/spas.htm

"Street Sweepers" that were once legally owned with no restrictions, suddenly became NFA items with a simple re-classification.

The dealer has probably turned over (or has been "requested" to turn over), a list of buyers. If the dealer doesn't contact them.... the ATF most likely will.

What happens after that is anyones guess. IANAL, but I see no legal obligation on the dealers part to have the kits returned for a refund.

The ATF may have no choice but to grandfather in the devices already sold and give the buyers a small window to register them (sans $200.00 tax stamp).

 

[drgrant]

The ATF may have no choice but to grandfather in the devices already sold and give the buyers a small window to register them (sans $200.00 tax stamp).

Yeah, I vaguely remember that... the whole large cap automatic shotguns
becoming DD's trick that they pulled awhile back. All because of that
stupid "sporting purposes" thing. Part of this is why the Saiga 12
doesn't really have drums and the like... they don't want the capacity to
get high enough that it makes the ATF whine.

On the other hand they might just put the screws to everyone,
too.

-Mike

 

[securityboy]

What happens to the people who shelled out $1000 for this 10/22 bump firing stock now that its classified as a machine gun?
I don't know anyone who got one, and I sure as hell would have found better stuff to spend a grand on, but some people must have bought these.
http://www.firefaster.com/

#1 Tom is one of the best guys out there, I am sure he will take care of his customers.

What is worse about this sitatuation is that ATF "changed its mind". While this product has only been on the market for less than a year. The "concept" was approved some time ago and the beta units were in the hands of the test group for more than a year befor the "public" release of the product.

So imagine if you will coming up with a product, getting approval for it, testing it for a year, then once you have all the tooling, etc and the product has been on the market for some time, ATF says "oops we changed our mind"...

For me the idea of being out $1000 isn't as big of a deal as ATF flip flopping on what is legal and what isn't. Why do we bother sending things to the Tech Branch if they can just change thier mind after they approve it...

 

[traveler57]

Crank fire for semi-auto 1919

Okay, After searching a bit, I finally found this relevant post where I can put my question.

So, what about the crank/cam devices that can be attached to semi-auto 1919, M2s, etc? Are these now covered under NFA and Class3 also? Either Federally or just in the state of MA? or both? Does anyone have a link to the relevant MGL?

The crank devices are only an "add-on" and not built into the gun like the 10/22 Accelerator, so will that make a difference?

Of the three places I have found so far to buy my 1919, they all sell the crank fire device as an option. And, their web sites claim it to be legal (i.e. non NFA full auto) in "many" of the 50 states. But as we all know, just having someone saying it is legal does not necessarily make it legal.

But saying that some states do allow it (as they are being sold now) should mean that the NFA does not have an issue, and I am stuck with what the MA laws say.

Thanks.

 

[drgrant]

I don't think MA law regulates them at all, actually. If you want to
be 110% sure, look up the MA law for what defines a machinegun.

Federally speaking, cranks still seem to be okay, but given this latest
BS, that could change at any time. ATF seems to make the rules up
as they go along WRT trigger actuators. I think cranks though are
somewhat safe given that people have been using them for a long
time.

IMO a bigger/more real problem than the ATF wrt such devices is attracting
unwanted attention from locals. Dumb fudd types frequently report
"machine gun fire" and so on, despite the fact that you may be shooting it at
a gun range. If you're using one of these things at a place that's not used to
machine gun fire, you may want to bring a copy of the applicable federal/state
laws with you just in case. (Despite the fact that it's
not really a machine gun, the fact that it sounds like one may lead an
ignorant LEO to believe that it -IS- one. )


-Mike

 

[traveler57]

Machine Gun definition

I did pull out my copies of both the federal and MA law tonight. Found that the federal definition of MG is "multiple firing of rounds with SINGLE pull of trigger." Sorry, I can't just cut and paste the exact wording, but my law books are the old fashion paper kind. (please don't flame me.)

So, yes, with the single pull of the trigger part, it looks like a crank on a semi-auto would not define it as a MG, since it is pulling the trigger each time, once for each shot.

But, with this being the People Republic of Mass, I know exactly what you mean about all the problems of other people. Heck, I have to deal with non-gun people with stupid opinions all the time. And this is just for the fact that I own a gun at all.

And I know that a lot of ranges don't allow MGs at all, even the one I belong to. In fact, my club will only allow a max of 5 rds in a magazine for any gun. So a belt of 100 rds might be a problem.

But these are just problems that can be dealt with. Now I just need to sell off some of my less used toys to make room for the 1919a4.

 

[bodybagsryan]

Just to address a few questions posed earlier, this device works very very well. I had the opportunity to try one some months back and was amazed how well it worked. I did not buy one because the bell went off in the back of my head that this would happen with BATFE. I don't need high drama or hassles in my life, especially with law enforcement agencies. Girl friends, horsewomen....well that's a different story. Anyway, too bad they are passe because it was really quite a nice shooter. Very controllable too.

 

[bodybagsryan]

Oh one other thing, to address what traveler57 was referring to and my bell going off, it was the collection of parts and one pull of the trigger producing successive shots phraseology that made me jump away from purchasing this unit. After shooting the unit, I could see BATFE doing this. But it's too bad the Tech Branch did not get this up front with Tom and his people so that they would not have invested many thousands of dollars into what seemed to be at the time an approved product. Thanks Traveler57.

 

[dwarven1]

In fact, my club will only allow a max of 5 rds in a magazine for any gun. So a belt of 100 rds might be a problem.

Why? A belt is NOT a magazine... you could play barracks lawyer with that
REAL easily.

 

[Chris]

And all those cops out looking for high capacity "Clips".