When deciding your EDC......

[LakeTrout]

Its never come into my mind at all. You need to carry the best tool you can. Your life depends on it. If you don't carry the best tool that you can because you may lose it if you use it to save your life, you're already making the first mistake toward losing that fight.

If you are wondering if you should carry your pimped out, engraved, chrome accented pretty boy pistol, that is a different question. You are probably using too much hand lotion to get a proper grip on the damn thing anyway.

 

[DarkJoker33]

Its never come into my mind at all. You need to carry the best tool you can. Your life depends on it. If you don't carry the best tool that you can because you may lose it if you use it to save your life, you're already making the first mistake toward losing that fight.

If you are wondering if you should carry your pimped out, engraved, chrome accented pretty boy pistol, that is a different question. You are probably using too much hand lotion to get a proper grip on the damn thing anyway.

I have plenty of carry options available.
Its because its my first 92 and ive always wanted one since I was little.

I'm probably going to end up eventually buying another to carry one day.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I think @Len-2A Training is being a bit dramatic, there are plenty of people in MA that have discharged their firearm in lawful self defence with no charges filed, no arrest, and no confiscation of their firearm collection, So Len is just plain incorrect that it WILL happen, of course it May happen based on the circumstances. It is true however the weapon used will be taken during the investigation, This happened in my town about 15 years ago, no charges to the shooter, no ruined life, no prolonged court battles, no loss of LTC, no confiscated collection. So many people try to instill fear into gun owners over justifiable self defence.
If you are a cowboy, shooting at retreating targets or vehicles, with excessive round count, over verbal altercations etc... without imminent threat to your life.... well, this is not Florida or Texas, so what you see in the news does not apply here in MA, but basic justified protection of your life and family dose. personally I believe in being well informed on the law, But many here in MA want gun owners to be in fear of justifiably defending their life and spread misinformation

If you recall the person who shot the deranged person who was stabbing his doctor at MGH some years ago. They took his LTC and "investigated" him for ~9 months. He lost his armed security job. They finally exonerated him. Since you can't possess any guns without a LTC, if he owned any other guns, they got confiscated.

 

[Picton]

Its because its my first 92 and ive always wanted one since I was little.

I felt that way about a 1911. I rushed out and purchased one the moment I could.

I've bought several, and I've carried several. My very first one, I traded to a buddy of mine for a No 5 mk I Enfield.

I can get sentimental about guns, definitely, but not regular-production 1911s.

 

[Road_Clam]

I have NO clue how so many of you can comfortable belt carry a 5" Bbl 92F gun, and sit but to each his own.

My number 1 priority is comfort BOTH walking AND sitting. If my situation is more walking then my 9mm Beretta Nano is my preference, but if i think I will be sitting more than it's my Kimber Micro 380

 

[AMV]

If you recall the person who shot the deranged person who was stabbing his doctor at MGH some years ago. They took his LTC and "investigated" him for ~9 months. He lost his armed security job. They finally exonerated him. Since you can't possess any guns without a LTC, if he owned any other guns, they got confiscated.

I do recall that, and admit it certainly can Happen but it is not a guarantee. An Armed security guard with no law enforcement power, defending the life of another, is a bit different. That individual put himself at additional risk for a paycheck. New folks to the firearm world seem to take what reputable Instructors say as the Gospel Truth. And your statement was misleading and incorrect.

 

[M1911]

I do recall that, and admit it certainly can Happen but it is not a guarantee. An Armed security guard with no law enforcement power, defending the life of another, is a bit different. That individual put himself at additional risk for a paycheck. New folks to the firearm world seem to take what reputable Instructors say as the Gospel Truth. And your statement was misleading and incorrect.

No, it’s not different. He wasn’t working at the time. He was there as a patient. He didn’t work at MGH.

 

[AMV]

No, it’s not different. He wasn’t working at the time. He was there as a patient. THe didn’t work at MGH.

Ok, I was not aware of that, but the difference is similar he was not defending himself…. That is a choice that needs to be made when you decide to carry for SELF defense.

 

[M1911]

Ok, I was not aware of that, but the difference is similar he was not defending himself…. That is a choice that needs to be made when you decide to carry for SELF defense.

The law is the same. If the victim would be justified to use deadly force to defend themselves then a third party is justified to use deadly force to defend them.

This was an open and shut case. The attacker, a patient, was repeatedly stabbing a therapist who had fallen to the floor. The DA still put the shooter through six months of crap. That is the point that Len was making.

 

[AMV]

The law is the same. If the victim would be justified to use deadly force to defen themselves then a third party is justified to use deadly force to defend them.

This was an open and shut case. The attacker, a patient, was repeatedly stabbing a therapist who had fallen to the floor. The DA still put the shooter through six months of crap. That is the point that Len was making.

I understand that entirely, If you choose to do that your risk of Len’s statement go way up. That is all. We all know what the law says.

If that security guard was the one getting stabbed. You think the outcome would have been the same?

My point on this subject is, it is false to say you are guaranteed to loose everything if you justifiably defend yourself.

 

[usp45ct]

So my thoughts are the only time I would use my gun were if I were going to lose everything, like my life or that of a loved one. If I got through that ordeal safely, then losing my gins and fighting the courts would be worth it if I am around to go to court.

Also, I carry what I know I can hit a target with constantly, with ammo I know will work. I do carry a $3k WC 1911 as part of my rotation. Picton said it best when he detailed the decisions he make on what to carry. I do the same.

 

[M1911]

I understand that entirely, If you choose to do that your risk of Len’s statement go way up. That is all. We all know what the law says.

If that security guard was the one getting stabbed. You think the outcome would have been the same?

Yes, I do Think the DA would have done the same thing. Would all DAs in MA do that? No, but some would. From a legal standpoint, defense of a third party is no different than defending yourself.

 

[AMV]

Yes, I do Think the DA would have done the same thing. Would all DAs in MA do that? No, but some would. From a legal standpoint, defense of a third party is no different than defending yourself.

Very True, But the way the law is applied in MA, I would not think twice about defending my life...... I would think twice about defending yours.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I think @Len-2A Training is being a bit dramatic, there are plenty of people in MA that have discharged their firearm in lawful self defence with no charges filed, no arrest, and no confiscation of their firearm collection, So Len is just plain incorrect that it WILL happen, of course it May happen based on the circumstances. It is true however the weapon used will be taken during the investigation, This happened in my town about 15 years ago, no charges to the shooter, no ruined life, no prolonged court battles, no loss of LTC, no confiscated collection.

Do you have any specifics?

If you recall the person who shot the deranged person who was stabbing his doctor at MGH some years ago. They took his LTC and "investigated" him for ~9 months. He lost his armed security job. They finally exonerated him. Since you can't possess any guns without a LTC, if he owned any other guns, they got confiscated.

That’s the case that made it crystal clear for me. A self defense shooting get much cleaner than this and they jerked him around for nearly a year.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Do you have any specifics?



That’s the case that made it crystal clear for me. A self defense shooting get much cleaner than this and they jerked him around for nearly a year.

Not only that, but the shooter is from a very well connected Boston family. Relatives owned the funeral home that now is a courthouse, relative was a city councillor for many years, etc.

@AMV, if you accept the fact that anyone with a firearm must possess a LTC, when they confiscate the LTC, they must confiscate all guns at the same time . . . otherwise they would be setting the person up for a felony charge of possession without a license. Until things are "investigated", it is commonplace in MA to confiscate the LTC. If justified in the end, they may get the LTC back. However, the police are NOT obligated to hold onto the guns that weren't used in the event until the investigation is complete. Thus, the PD is free to ship them off to a bonded warehouse . . . and many of us know how that works out.

 

[Picton]

Very True, But the way the law is applied in MA, I would not think twice about defending my life...... I would think twice about defending yours.

Yep.

That’s the case that made it crystal clear for me. A self defense shooting get much cleaner than this and they jerked him around for nearly a year.

Also yep. It was an instructive case. I can't think of any situation more clear-cut than that one, and still they messed with him.

The modern world has made me selfish, unfortunately. My guns are for the defense of me and mine. Sorry about everyone else, but I support their right to carry and defend themselves, too. Everything else is a 911 call.

 

[drgrant]

That's a new bit of news to me.
I thought it was just the firearm that was used on the event.

Which raises another question in my mind.
Being whats the real point of carrying than?

Yes defense of course. And keep on living.
But if all your defensive capabilities are taken after one event and everything is taken.
Along with the probability of never getting anything back.
Would I also then lose my ability to carry/own for the rest of my life if found not at fault/not guilty?

No

 

[greencobra]

just like gambling...if you can't afford to loose it don't bet it.

 

[AMV]

Do you have any specifics?

In a nutshell... a gentleman was involved in some controversial business dealings. A couple guys were sent to rough him up, I think with a Pipe or bat. He was pushed to the ground and while on the ground pulled out a .380 and fired a couple rounds at the aggressors, They fled the scene later crashing their car after shooter gave pursuit. It was quickly deemed self defence.

@AMV, if you accept the fact that anyone with a firearm must possess a LTC, when they confiscate the LTC, they must confiscate all guns at the same time . . . otherwise they would be setting the person up for a felony charge of possession without a license. Until things are "investigated", it is commonplace in MA to confiscate the LTC. If justified in the end, they may get the LTC back. However, the police are NOT obligated to hold onto the guns that weren't used in the event until the investigation is complete. Thus, the PD is free to ship them off to a bonded warehouse . . . and many of us know how that works out.

True, If they Pull your LTC, but they don't need to do that to take the weapon involved in the incident during the investigation. Similar to impounding a vehicle involved in a death that was no fault of the operator, they don't take your drivers licence as well.

As I stated initially, a ruined life is not guaranteed, or likely if you are justified, a lot of this would depend on the town, and the event that occurred as to what will happen. The example you offered about MGH, and BOSTON is not the normal....However it may be the normal for Boston...but not those living in vast majority of towns in MA

 

[HorizontalHunter]

In a nutshell... a gentleman was involved in some controversial business dealings. A couple guys were sent to rough him up, I think with a Pipe or bat. He was pushed to the ground and while on the ground pulled out a .380 and fired a couple rounds at the aggressors, They fled the scene later crashing their car after shooter gave pursuit. It was quickly deemed self defence.

Your are comparing apples and oranges.

In the case @Len-2A Training and the rest of us are talking about the assailant was killed. Not only did they jerk him around for nine months the assailants family could have also brought a civil suit.

The case you are talking about the “gentleman” just punched some holes in the sky and then chased after them. No comparison. BTW he is lucky he didn’t catch them and shoot them. He would be in jail for murder or attempted murder.

 

[Picton]

As I stated initially, a ruined life is not guaranteed, or likely if you are justified, a lot of this would depend on the town, and the event that occurred as to what will happen. The example you offered about MGH, and BOSTON is not the normal....However it may be the normal for Boston...but not those living in vast majority of towns in MA

I believe the shooter in that case lived in Stoneham, however, and I assumed his license was issued in that town. They'd be the ones who suspended him, perhaps at BPD's request.

 

[AMV]

Your are comparing apples and oranges.

The case you are talking about the “gentleman” just punched some holes in the sky and then chased after them. No comparison. BTW he is lucky he didn’t catch them and shoot them. He would be in jail for murder or attempted murder.

Whooo... Back up.... And review this conversation, we are talking about losing your LTC, having your collection confiscated, pooly stored, engraved etc..... for "USING your gun", I disagreed with Lens Statement As he is a well know instructor, and probably knows better, He offered up the MGH shooting to back up his comments of what WILL happen to you. It did happen in that case, but many others It does not. I attached it below if you can't find it. In my example he "used his gun" to defend himself....... what part about this is hard to understand

He did catch them, But was not some out of control cowboy that would do something as stupid as kill someone without being in fear for his life.


"In MA, if you ever had to use a gun, they will confiscate ALL your guns and LTC. The chances of ever getting any of them back usually is infinitesimal. And PDs don't store guns carefully either, plus have a tendency to engrave the case number into the gun's surface.""

 

[Caveman]

It’s a big part for me. It’s the reason I went to glocks. I consider them “disposable” so if one had to get taken as evidence I wouldn’t cry. same thing as beating on it training. dropping it etc. It’s a tool. also why I bought a duplicate setup. I don’t carry something I wouldn’t be able to replace easily or that has sentimental value.

 

[carbuncle]

If it saved my, or someone else's, life, it's like a fire extinguisher: it served it's purpose.