I know that I was fortunate in the leaders I had. I’m aware it’s not the same army-wide. But the most productive AAR I was ever a part of featured an E4 taking an O5 to task, in public, very pointedly, and the two of them maintaining their professionalism and respect throughout. It made a big impression on me, and this was early in my career, when I was still in the Guard.
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21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas
- Thread starter DispositionMatrix
- Start date
I was in plenty of AARs. I just don't think it made a difference in any capacity. The feedback we gave was also simplistic.
Artifact
NES Member
Guard O5 will listen down, happens all the time, AD not so much if not at all or is highly unusual.
Yeah, but two of my three AD battalion commanders were just as willing to take criticism from below. The third was, alas, an absolute moron.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Some will take criticism, some won't. When an E-3 tells on O-3 to pull his head out of his ass it take's the E-3's Chief to pull him out of the firestorm....... Even though the O-3 needed to pull his head out of his ass.
Disappointing.
As an E2, my co (O5) was willing to debate uscg policy with me. A very naive 19 year old me. I’m sure he was laughing his ass off inside, but he listened to my opinions with respect and didn’t shut me down.
I continue to honor him by doing my best to model his ways as a civilian PHB.
I didn't feel like I was wrong for it at the time, and I still don't really. The army wasn't doing enough wrong that I really had the need to say something. I only spoke up a few times, and in those times it was always with a colossally stupid E5 or E6. 5's were the worst offenders by far of straight up bad leadership ability (granted, they are new but some of them are doomed to always be bad leaders) and 1 E6 I can remember being a total dumbass.
I don't have any bad memories of bad officers. I was very lucky with that. I do have plenty of great officers, though.
I was a senior E4 and E4 mafia through and through. The name of the game was to sham, scam, and hide. Not bring attention to myself
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
My 1st introduction to colossally bad leadership was in the fire service. And boy oh boy do they not care about feedback. You can give as much as they want. Won't matter. Their loss.
Hallmark decides to take the democrat approach by not letting a good tragedy go to waste:
View: https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1551230484738342913
View: https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1551230484738342913
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Now THERE's a company desperate to remain in business.
Other than my mother and her sisters... who sends cards anymore? Between them and the gaggle of gay men who buy their collectibles, they're keeping them afloat... barely. Most of the "Hallmark stores" we've had around here have closed.
And even my mother has seen the light - she buys cards at the dollar store when she must.
In God We Trust
NES Member
I remember as a corporal attending my first NCO meeting. I asked some uncomfortable questions like why the piss hots were laying on their back in the barracks all day while the other guys were out in the rain working the gates. They didn’t like me “questioning the commanders judgement.”
Next month I was told the NCO meeting was for E-5 and above. Nothing to do with me speaking of course, just some obscure regulation.
VetteGirlMA
NES Member
Notice the see of white on display lol. It's catnip for white progressive liberals lol. If antifa/BLM had walked in they would have torn down the display, stomped on it and then lit it on fire all while getting golf claps from the same white progressive liberals.
MaverickNH
NES Member
Arming Teachers Is No Panacea | National Review
It is a partial solution to school shootings, at best.
www.nationalreview.com
"To be fair, the idea of arming teachers does make some sense; after all, we would be giving the most likely victims of such shootings a chance at successfully defending themselves and their charges. However, the likelihood of such a stratagem working as intended is extremely low, while the possibility of accidents, mishandling, or theft is high.
Best-case scenario: Alarms blare — active shooter in Riverdale Middle School. Mrs. Jones, the seventh-grade math teacher, with a preternatural calm, pulls a Springfield 1911 loaded with .45 ACP from the small of her back or opens a fingerprinted safe behind her desk. The shooter opens the classroom door, and Mrs. Jones has the wherewithal and training to operate the handgun and put seven of seven rounds into center mass, killing the gunman before any evil is done.
Worst-case scenario: A disturbed student or intruder learns where Mrs. Jones keeps her firearm and takes it — or overpowers her and takes it — using the weapon to harm himself or others.
Most likely scenario: Mrs. Jones locks her firearm in her desk, with ammunition in another drawer, to prevent students from stealing her gun. Those drawers are haphazardly filled with educational detritus, as is the way of teachers. Years later (for school shootings are statistically exceptionally rare), an active-shooter situation happens. Whether the shooter can be stopped ends up being a gamble with poor odds: The likelihood that Mrs. Jones is able to access her firearm in time, that the gunman chooses her classroom to barge into, and that she’d be willing and able to use her handgun in the vital first three to five minutes of such a situation is exceedingly low."
Best option is to just die like a good monkey so the press can get a few weeks of coffin dancing.Arming Teachers Is No Panacea | National Review
It is a partial solution to school shootings, at best.
"To be fair, the idea of arming teachers does make some sense; after all, we would be giving the most likely victims of such shootings a chance at successfully defending themselves and their charges. However, the likelihood of such a stratagem working as intended is extremely low, while the possibility of accidents, mishandling, or theft is high.
Best-case scenario: Alarms blare — active shooter in Riverdale Middle School. Mrs. Jones, the seventh-grade math teacher, with a preternatural calm, pulls a Springfield 1911 loaded with .45 ACP from the small of her back or opens a fingerprinted safe behind her desk. The shooter opens the classroom door, and Mrs. Jones has the wherewithal and training to operate the handgun and put seven of seven rounds into center mass, killing the gunman before any evil is done.
Worst-case scenario: A disturbed student or intruder learns where Mrs. Jones keeps her firearm and takes it — or overpowers her and takes it — using the weapon to harm himself or others.
Most likely scenario: Mrs. Jones locks her firearm in her desk, with ammunition in another drawer, to prevent students from stealing her gun. Those drawers are haphazardly filled with educational detritus, as is the way of teachers. Years later (for school shootings are statistically exceptionally rare), an active-shooter situation happens. Whether the shooter can be stopped ends up being a gamble with poor odds: The likelihood that Mrs. Jones is able to access her firearm in time, that the gunman chooses her classroom to barge into, and that she’d be willing and able to use her handgun in the vital first three to five minutes of such a situation is exceedingly low."
We got ratings to keep up , don't f*ck it up .
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Isn't NR still the CIA's house organ? Or am I confusing that with Time.
Arming Teachers Is No Panacea | National Review
It is a partial solution to school shootings, at best.
"To be fair, the idea of arming teachers does make some sense; after all, we would be giving the most likely victims of such shootings a chance at successfully defending themselves and their charges. However, the likelihood of such a stratagem working as intended is extremely low, while the possibility of accidents, mishandling, or theft is high.
Best-case scenario: Alarms blare — active shooter in Riverdale Middle School. Mrs. Jones, the seventh-grade math teacher, with a preternatural calm, pulls a Springfield 1911 loaded with .45 ACP from the small of her back or opens a fingerprinted safe behind her desk. The shooter opens the classroom door, and Mrs. Jones has the wherewithal and training to operate the handgun and put seven of seven rounds into center mass, killing the gunman before any evil is done.
Worst-case scenario: A disturbed student or intruder learns where Mrs. Jones keeps her firearm and takes it — or overpowers her and takes it — using the weapon to harm himself or others.
Most likely scenario: Mrs. Jones locks her firearm in her desk, with ammunition in another drawer, to prevent students from stealing her gun. Those drawers are haphazardly filled with educational detritus, as is the way of teachers. Years later (for school shootings are statistically exceptionally rare), an active-shooter situation happens. Whether the shooter can be stopped ends up being a gamble with poor odds: The likelihood that Mrs. Jones is able to access her firearm in time, that the gunman chooses her classroom to barge into, and that she’d be willing and able to use her handgun in the vital first three to five minutes of such a situation is exceedingly low."
I don't care about Ms Jones.
Nothing about her situation should have anything to do with Mr Picton's right to defend himself, surely.
HARRYM
NES Member
So.....has anyone lost their job yet?...................
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Arming Teachers Is No Panacea | National Review
It is a partial solution to school shootings, at best.
Most likely scenario: Mrs. Jones locks her firearm in her desk, with ammunition in another drawer, to prevent students from stealing her gun. Those drawers are haphazardly filled with educational detritus, as is the way of teachers. Years later (for school shootings are statistically exceptionally rare), an active-shooter situation happens. Whether the shooter can be stopped ends up being a gamble with poor odds: The likelihood that Mrs. Jones is able to access her firearm in time, that the gunman chooses her classroom to barge into, and that she’d be willing and able to use her handgun in the vital first three to five minutes of such a situation is exceedingly low."
His described "most likely" scenario is depended on the gun being unloaded in one drawer, the ammo in another, and both being forgotten for years after having school supplies piled on them.
Well I hope the teachers entrusted with firearms aren't as moronic as that author.
Would his proof I am likely a poor sailor require me to drill a hole in my boat first?
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Arming Teachers Is No Panacea | National Review
It is a partial solution to school shootings, at best.
"To be fair, the idea of arming teachers does make some sense; after all, we would be giving the most likely victims of such shootings a chance at successfully defending themselves and their charges. However, the likelihood of such a stratagem working as intended is extremely low, while the possibility of accidents, mishandling, or theft is high.
Best-case scenario: Alarms blare — active shooter in Riverdale Middle School. Mrs. Jones, the seventh-grade math teacher, with a preternatural calm, pulls a Springfield 1911 loaded with .45 ACP from the small of her back or opens a fingerprinted safe behind her desk. The shooter opens the classroom door, and Mrs. Jones has the wherewithal and training to operate the handgun and put seven of seven rounds into center mass, killing the gunman before any evil is done.
Worst-case scenario: A disturbed student or intruder learns where Mrs. Jones keeps her firearm and takes it — or overpowers her and takes it — using the weapon to harm himself or others.
Most likely scenario: Mrs. Jones locks her firearm in her desk, with ammunition in another drawer, to prevent students from stealing her gun. Those drawers are haphazardly filled with educational detritus, as is the way of teachers. Years later (for school shootings are statistically exceptionally rare), an active-shooter situation happens. Whether the shooter can be stopped ends up being a gamble with poor odds: The likelihood that Mrs. Jones is able to access her firearm in time, that the gunman chooses her classroom to barge into, and that she’d be willing and able to use her handgun in the vital first three to five minutes of such a situation is exceedingly low."
At least they are admitting that school shootings are rare.
MaverickNH
NES Member
I can’t imagine any teacher that’s allowed to have a gun at school and chooses to do so meets the “Most Likley” scenario. I recall no news story about a teacher leaving a gun on a toilet tank in school or having a gun drop on the floor in the hallway between classes. With some states allowing armed teachers for years, it would have happened. Yes, it might have happened, but if the media had no story, it didn’t really happenHis described "most likely" scenario is depended on the gun being unloaded in one drawer, the ammo in another, and both being forgotten for years after having school supplies piled on them.
Well I hope the teachers entrusted with firearms aren't as moronic as that author.
Would his proof I am likely a poor sailor require me to drill a hole in my boat first?
That is, it didn’t cause a big stink.To date, no student shot by a teacher’s gun. With over 20 million licensed CCW holders in the US (plus millions more in Constitutional Carry states), if accidental shootings with CCW holders’ guns was not exceedingly rare, we’d have had a lot more than 60k intentional & unintentional gun homicides and injuries in 2021 (GVA data below).
His described "most likely" scenario is depended on the gun being unloaded in one drawer, the ammo in another, and both being forgotten for years after having school supplies piled on them.
Well I hope the teachers entrusted with firearms aren't as moronic as that author.
Would his proof I am likely a poor sailor require me to drill a hole in my boat first?
I like to think that most gun owners aren't that careless either, but I have to say that whoever wrote that knows a teacher or two.
I think his "most likely" would absolutely occur in a world where teachers were required to have guns.
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Which is why the 'required' part is repeated so often to discredit allowing teachers and staff to carry.
I don't want required; I want folks to step up and volunteer.
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
It is my view that he is exaggerating. On the point of your qualifier; to my knowledge no one anywhere is proposing requiring teachers to be armed. That would indeed be a disaster waiting to happen, but again I think hardly because they forgot about the gun piled under crap in their desk.
Jason Flare
NES Member
I think the point is that a shooter won’t know which type of teacher he’ll be running in to.
Once you have command of the battlespace, you don't give it up.
MaverickNH
NES Member
Uvalde Massacre Prompts New Debate on Guns Among Residents
Some 180 people in the county have registered to vote since the school shooting, including family members of its victims.
www.wsj.com
Lots of great quotes from clueless people used by the author, who has been banging on the Mayor’s door since the mass killing. One token NRA member quote "for balance". She plans to ride this story to fame.
AR15 sales to children? I guess we send children to war at age 18.
Increased training for more powerful weapons? 556NATO is on the low-end of power for hunting rifles.
More regulation like voting? Just show your Drivers License and carry home a gun.
Nearly decapitated children? All 18 children, or one.
And the byline - 180 new registered voters in Uvalde (Population 16,000) lamely suggests the mass killing is driving new voter registration.
KBCraig
NES Member
Arizona parents learned from Uvalde. Arizona police did not.
www.nbcnews.com
Parents arrested, tased while trying to get onto campus of Arizona school on lockdown
The arrests happened after police in El Mirage locked down an elementary school after a report that someone tried to get inside a building and ran off.
www.nbcnews.com
safetyfirst2125
NES Member
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Priorities.Arizona parents learned from Uvalde. Arizona police did not.
Parents arrested, tased while trying to get onto campus of Arizona school on lockdown
The arrests happened after police in El Mirage locked down an elementary school after a report that someone tried to get inside a building and ran off.
IRS: 87,000 new agents.
Schools: Zero new security resource officers
But please. Tell me again how disarming law abiding citizens will make children safer.
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These officers definitely need to be fired, salvage the ones you can I guess.
Somebody called 911 in my town said that they had a rifle and an explosive device last night
It was quite the response. I wasn’t on site but when I got news of it. I was working..
I saw the helicopter heading downtown.
I also wasn’t aware of this concert either.
I’d like to shadow of the bomb unit for a day job.. I know they deal with a bunch of nothing but you’d hate for that to get interesting..
Somebody called 911 in my town said that they had a rifle and an explosive device last night
It was quite the response. I wasn’t on site but when I got news of it. I was working..
I saw the helicopter heading downtown.
I also wasn’t aware of this concert either.
I’d like to shadow of the bomb unit for a day job.. I know they deal with a bunch of nothing but you’d hate for that to get interesting..
Westfield Park Square incident determined to be “swatting” situation
The Westfield Police Department is informing the public that an incident in downtown near Park Square Friday night was determined to be a swatting incident.
www.wwlp.com
Last edited:
fshalor
NES Member
Arming Teachers Is No Panacea | National Review
It is a partial solution to school shootings, at best.
"To be fair, the idea of arming teachers does make some sense; after all, we would be giving the most likely victims of such shootings a chance at successfully defending themselves and their charges. However, the likelihood of such a stratagem working as intended is extremely low, while the possibility of accidents, mishandling, or theft is high.
Best-case scenario: Alarms blare — active shooter in Riverdale Middle School. Mrs. Jones, the seventh-grade math teacher, with a preternatural calm, pulls a Springfield 1911 loaded with .45 ACP from the small of her back or opens a fingerprinted safe behind her desk. The shooter opens the classroom door, and Mrs. Jones has the wherewithal and training to operate the handgun and put seven of seven rounds into center mass, killing the gunman before any evil is done.
Worst-case scenario: A disturbed student or intruder learns where Mrs. Jones keeps her firearm and takes it — or overpowers her and takes it — using the weapon to harm himself or others.
Most likely scenario: Mrs. Jones locks her firearm in her desk, with ammunition in another drawer, to prevent students from stealing her gun. Those drawers are haphazardly filled with educational detritus, as is the way of teachers. Years later (for school shootings are statistically exceptionally rare), an active-shooter situation happens. Whether the shooter can be stopped ends up being a gamble with poor odds: The likelihood that Mrs. Jones is able to access her firearm in time, that the gunman chooses her classroom to barge into, and that she’d be willing and able to use her handgun in the vital first three to five minutes of such a situation is exceedingly low."
I spitballed with a flaming anti the other day about this and proposed sending guns in via bank style air tubes and required training.
The conversation actually went well, as the school his boyfriend teaches at just got a new armed SRO and half the staff is pissed, the other half cheering.
Have an SRO control the safe while on watch. Draw out what he needs, and send them to the teachers desk !
KBCraig
NES Member
Please tell me again how adding a 377th officer in Uvalde would have made children safer.
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